Su-27 Open-Beta chit-chat and first impressions!

[Svend_Dellepude]

http://youtu.be/ccTJrxVqw9g?t=5m6s

 

heres a clip from the inside, i tried doing similar stick movements at differing speeds.

 

From what i can understand the pilot keeps pulling the stick until the plane stops going backwards and then he slightly pushes the stick forward, and then centers it, the plane pretty much stabilizes its self on its own.

 

now when i tried that in game, it doesnt look very pretty, i also gain quite a bit of altitude, now ive managed to do a cobra (or at least i think its one), but the stick movement needs to be much more erratic looking to not nosedive the airplane.

Maybe the actual pilot only disables the pitch stabilization and keeps the rest of them on.

 

Looks like he cuts the throttles right before he pulls back, and then after he put the stick full forward he puts full MIL on right engine only, probably followed by the left soon after, but we don't get to see that.

I remember John Farley talking about a tail slide in a MiG-29 in some documentary, where he mentioned something similar about the throttles.

[theropod]

i think this aircraft flies very stable with trim. thank you again ED

remember non of us hadnt have an experience a russian pfm fighter aircraft on sim like this and still it is in beta stage.

more and more flight exercise and experience needed.

thank you ED:)

[leapingrodent]

Only spent a little time with it but so far I think it's pretty awesome, good job ED... My first attempt at a Cobra didn't end so well though :D

[Corvus]

If anyone's interested here is a short video of new HDD.

 

Le23Mpxdl3s

 

I've done some dogfighting in Su-27 and I have to say it is an amazing plane.

[Jumbik]

So I did few rounds today and I must say WELL DONE. It feels much more alive now than any other plane except for Mig-21 I have flew before. Landing is a whole new experience, taking off also! The pitch up and pitch down based on engine power feels strange but if thats how it behaves in real plane then I suppose it has something to do with the setup of fbw and the difference between pilot beeing alive or not. :)

 

But this is how one could imagine naturaly imbalanced plane to be flown. It's like riding on a young horse, it wants to do things on its own and you need to be under controll all the time.

 

And then the S key... well I suppose I will have to avoid it for few weeks :D

 

 

I have one question though. How on earth it's possible that this plane has such huge inertia? I can keep stable speed even with minimal power. It slows down really slowly which will be a huge pain in formation flying. The slow air brake will not help at all. :D

[Weta43]

I guess there's nothing to stop me putting my opinion here :)

 

After flying it for a while now - I like it.

You have to be mindfull flying it - if you're lazy with the trim you'll be fighting it all the time & won't enjoy it, but (sort of like the Ka-50 :) ) if you trim for changes in flight parameters, it's stable and predicatable & while I wouldn't say it was 'nimble', it is very manouverable & capable*.

Energy management is probably more important, and you have to remember that there's limited fuel in the feeder tanks.

 

Yes - there are things to do (some of which have been metiond more than once), but once you get used to the fact you're not flying the old SFM and adapt your flying style accordingly, I think you'll really like it - & it is in beta :)

 

A couple of people have asked why the aircraft recovers from the inverted spin once the pilot ejects ? Only player Su-27 have PFM. Once you eject it's not a player aircraft anymore - engines start because the header tank's not modelled, plane recovers because it's now SFM.

 

 

*(which fits with what I remember of an aticle that reported the impressions of an F-18(?) pilot that was given the opportunity to fly an Su-27. He was surprised at how much less stable in pitch it was, and noted it was slower to accelerate into a roll, thought the ultimate roll speed was good)

[Weta43]

I've said this before, but for people coming in halfway - if you remove all trim (HOLD, not tap Ctrl + T) and let the stick go neutral, turning off the CAS won't result in any change in direction at all.

 

If you have a lot of trim entered, or are fighting the stick when you turn it off - you're going to have a bumpy ride - which is to be expected.

[Falcon_S]

Well done! Trinkets will be worked and did not diminish what I call a good plane. I'm in love with Su27 again. ;)

 

As for the "S" option, I think it is not intended to be used at high speeds ... but people still use it and we get all these funny things. Maybe we should leave it as it is but only for aerobatic servers. That mean we need ON/OFF option in server settings.

 

As I said: "I'm in love with my Su27!" Again. :)

[Bucic]

if you remove all trim, and have the stick neutral(which may mean you're climbing), you can hit "S" at any speed without exploding the pilot's brain.

What does the S key command do?

[GGTharos]

It gives you direct control over aerodynamic surfaces, ie. amount of deflection on stick = amount of deflection on surface, without any schedules designed to manage consistent feel.

[Bucic]

Interesting.

[Ramstein]

I have not read much about the aircraft changes, but can we actually change the thrust vectors, like in real life now? If they actually can in real life... btw, I only have FC3, so that's the version I will try when it gets patched..

[JunMcKill]

Users with Joystick logitech G940 have the JOY_BTN3 auto assigned by the mod in the SU-27 options to "Stick to trimmer control mode", and in the others FC3 aircrafts is deleted, you have to manually assign again to View Center o whatever you use it.

[GGTharos]

No, the Su-27S/SK/SM does not equip thrust vectoring nozzles. The aircraft modeled in game is Su-27S.

 

I have not read much about the aircraft changes, but can we actually change the thrust vectors, like in real life now? If they actually can in real life... btw, I only have FC3, so that's the version I will try when it gets patched..

[Winfield_Gold]

So you ask the tester team?

No?

Hmm.. let's think about this funny situation? :lol:

 

What are you on about exactly? my post was aimed at those on the first few pages complaining how the aircraft doesn't handle right.

 

What is right? My response is justified considering those pointing out how poor the aircraft handles

 

Indeed it is a funny situation when you can't read a sentence written in English and interpret it to be french....:lol:

[USARStarkey]

So after many speed runs I still conclude that this thing is too fast, especially high up. Every figure and chart I can find out there shows the F-15C being considerably faster at high altitudes than the Su-27. It was also faster in the SFM, and the F-15 PFM is not much faster than the F-15SFM. If there are heat and stability restrictions on the plane IRL, then they should be reflected in game, as real pilots would not be going that fast. Also, it was stated earlier that the F-15C could go faster (1772mph) with its heat and stability restrictions ignored temporarily, and it cannot come even close to this in game (1696mph) (40K, can only hit 1647mph at 45k, which is odd, because the F-15C pfm page claims a higher speed at 45k vs 40k weird.....)

What is more, I can get some insane speeds under certain conditions. In the track I have posted, I reached 1930 some knots, or 2221+mph(3.3 mach) before the plane stopped accelerating.....because it exploded. Clearly there is something wrong with this aircrafts FM with regards to high speed performance.

[USARStarkey]

TRACK

speedtest-su27.trk

[uboats]

didn't find the key to duplicate HUD on HDD

[Corvus]

didn't find the key to duplicate HUD on HDD

Controls for HUD repeater are not set- you have to bind a key for it.

It's called "MFD HUD repeater on/off".

[Weta43]

Hi,

Spawning at 13000m with a full set of tanks and already at 2500km/h seems a slightly unrealistic starting point for the test, especially given that your posts to date (unless I missed one) have said you couldn't get more than 1460 knots if you started from the ground with full tanks:

 

"Assuming you burned fuel getting to altitude, and did not spawn at 40k, and accounting for fuel needed to accelerate, your top speed is going to be less than 1460knots. The Flanker is very fuel hungry as well, so chances are it will be alot less than that. "

 

 

Unrealistic tests will likely produce unrealistic results... I'd have a go myself, but my girlfriend's in bed waiting for me :), so perhaps you could repeat the performance with a ground start ?

[Nedum]

What are you on about exactly? my post was aimed at those on the first few pages complaining how the aircraft doesn't handle right.

 

What is right? My response is justified considering those pointing out how poor the aircraft handles

 

Indeed it is a funny situation when you can't read a sentence written in English and interpret it to be french....:lol:

 

 

OMFG you don't get it, right?

And how many of them flew a Cessna or a SU27?

So how can they test this Sim?

Your logic is still strange...!

Indeed.. a funny situation.. very funny...! :thumbup:

[Nedum]

If I trimmed the su27 with flaps down to level flight and then pull up the flaps, why is the su27 lift up the nose to the sky? Mustn't it be revers? Drop the nose slow to surface?

[USARStarkey]

Hi,

Spawning at 13000m with a full set of tanks and already at 2500km/h seems a slightly unrealistic starting point for the test, especially given that your posts to date (unless I missed one) have said you couldn't get more than 1460 knots if you started from the ground with full tanks:

 

"Assuming you burned fuel getting to altitude, and did not spawn at 40k, and accounting for fuel needed to accelerate, your top speed is going to be less than 1460knots. The Flanker is very fuel hungry as well, so chances are it will be alot less than that. "

 

 

Unrealistic tests will likely produce unrealistic results... I'd have a go myself, but my girlfriend's in bed waiting for me :), so perhaps you could repeat the performance with a ground start ?

 

The point is that that should not be possible at all. Furthermore the same thing cannot be done with the F-15.

 

Even starting at such heights and speeds I should not be able to do MACH 3.3. The Flanker is going too fast even if you start on the ground, as my previous posts have stated. If this is possible, then some characteristics of the FM are making it possible, and that means that they most likely effect the flanker in more realistic tests as well, HENCE, being able to do nearly mach 2.6 instead of the actual top speed of mach 2.35. What is more, you cannot do this in the F-15. Starting at mach 2 at 40k does not allow you to hit 3.3. If you watch the track, the aircraft accelerates to mach 1450knots and then just magically begins accelerating after sustaining that speed for about 30secs.

 

Top Speed is Top Speed. Excluding stability issues causing speed losses, If I get to mach 2.5 can can accelerate further even though I have fuel, I have met my limit. I no longer have enough thrust to overcome my drag etc. In the track I posted the aircraft has already burned quite a bit of fuel when it decides the limits are not a thing and go from 1450knots to 1930. Under no conditions should I be able to do this. If this happens under these conditions it makes sense to imply that what ever is causing this might also be causing the far to high top speeds done in more realistic tests. 1460-1510knots. If there are heat and stability limits imposed on the plane in real life, then they should apply in the game. Why on earth would you want to ignore real limitations? If not then why has the F-15 be saddled with being restricted to its RL limts with regards to non-energy limits? Ive tried every imaginable start /load/ alt, and I cant hit the Mach 2.67 that was mentioned earlier. Not that it should matter, as it seems to me that if you operated your flanker beyond its thermal and stability limits on an operational basis (assuming the FCS would let you without modification) you wouldnt be operating very long since do such a thing would cause failure due to over stressing the air frame. Its like operating a engine beyond its design limits. You can do it, but you wont have that engine very long.

Edited November 9, 2014 by USARStarkey

[Winfield_Gold]

You don't have to be an expert to understand there's no aircraft that can pull 50G and survive encounter with physics.

 

 

 

Really? Then, lets close the forum and sell DCS only to real military pilots.

 

Btw I can easy search for all your posts where you commented things you do not have idea about.

 

go ahead, search all 300+ posts, if you have that much time on your hands you need to find a woman. :megalol:

[USARStarkey]

go ahead, search all 300+ posts, if you have that much time on your hands you need to find a woman. :megalol:

 

You know, your the second person I've seen in this thread make a comment like that. If your going to make an argument, refrain from personal assaults and patronizing people.