New to DCS, where to start?

[eladku]

I'm considering starting to dive into DCS and wondered if you have any suggestions? Which plane to start?

 

Is FC3 any different from other modules? For example, is there a difference if I buy the F15c module for 10$ or the FC3 DLC?

 

Thanks,

[golani79]

You could just load DCS world which comes with 2 aircrafts to try.

The Su-25 and the TF51D.

 

The Su-25 is an aircraft comparable to the FC3 modules and the TF51D comes with a fully clickable cockpit.

 

The F15C standalone is the same aircraft which you would get with FC3.

The modules in FC3 are redone in regards of flight model so FC3 is probably a good deal but it also depends on which modules you really want in regards of interactivity.

[Zibell]

Consider starting with the free Su-25T. Search for tutorials on youtube, there are plenty, and see how you like it. If you're a hardcore simmer, you'll want more (clickable cockpits). In that case, I cannot recommend the A-10C enough, it's currently the most complete simulation of a modern military jet. The MiG-21 is also a great choice.

 

If you like WWII stuff, then try out the TF-51 included for free in DCS World. It is unarmed, but will give you a taste of aircraft from that era and also of full fidelity DCS modules. These WWII aircraft are not so misplaced anymore, given that a large project involving a map and various aircraft and units is planned to support second world war scenarios.

 

About FC3, if you buy it, you'll have the exact same modules as Su-25 for DCS World, A-10A for DCS World, F-15C for DCS World, Su-27 for DCS World, and a few extras, such as Su-33 (6DOF cockpit but no professional flight model), and some MiG-29s that come straight from flaming cliffs 2. If you prefer to buy separate, I recommend Su-27 as it comes with a full set of interactive training missions.

 

Hope this was of help, good flights!

[eladku]

Thank you both for your quick replies!

 

I bought the A-10C module some time ago but never give it a go.... I was thinking about getting the F15C though

[7rooper]

In my case I'm not interested in the simplified flight models some FC3 aircraft currently have and because of that I prefer to buy one by one as they are been upgraded. So far I've bought the F-15, Su-27 and will buy in a heartbeat the MiG-29 once its flight model is updated to PFM standards. I'm not interested in the FC3 A-10A at all since I already have the marvelous A-10C

[King_Hrothgar]

DCS has two levels of sim basically. One is a survey sim and the second is the full study sim where every little button and switch is modeled. Here's the current list for both types:

 

Survey: Su-25T, Flaming Cliffs 3 (can be bought individually as A-10A, Su-25, F-15C, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A/G/S)

 

Study: Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8, A-10C, MiG-21, F-86, Fw-190D, P-51D and Bf-109K.

 

The FC3 planes can be bought individually as mentioned. It is more expensive that way but if you only want 1 or 2, it can be cheaper. As for what I recommend, that really depends on you.

 

The A-10C is by far the most horrifically complicated plane in the game. I bought it and never use it. On the flip side, I find the Ka-50 the single most fun machine in the game. Like the A-10C, it models everything. Unlike the A-10C, it's intuitive and only slightly more complicated than the free Su-25T. And the Ka-50 is an absolute beast of a tank killer (best in game imho). It also makes a good spotter for other mud movers in MP.

 

The MiG-21 is a blast to fly and like the Ka-50, relatively simple to operate. Unfortunately it lacks any proper opponents atm. The plane itself can go toe to toe with an F-15C, but the radar, RWR and missiles are such unbelievable trash that you'll be dead long before you ever see them typically. The skill level required to shoot down other humans with it is high and often requires the other guy to be inept too. Ground control or AWACs are absolutely mandatory for this plane to be effective in air to air. It is surprisingly effective at ground attack though. Fun plane to go barreling through a valley at mach 1 in while hurling an S-25 rocket at a tank.

 

The F-86 currently serves no purpose in game as it doesn't have anything to fight. The WW2 planes are only slightly better off, being able to fight each other but without any AI bombers or ground units to give a proper scenario.

 

The UH-1 is a perfectly good cargo chopper. Beyond that it's a death trap. It serves a purpose in game but is about as exciting as flying a C-130. I don't have the Mi-8 but doubt it's much better in that regard. It does have more armament options though, and from what I've seen on youtube, is substantially more maneuverable.

 

FC3 planes currently represent the effective fighters. The MiG-29's are horribly out of date, featuring a cockpit and FM from the original LOMAC release back in 2003-ish. All the other planes in it are up to current cockpit standards. With the exception of the MiG-29's and Su-33, they also have more current FM's. The Su-25 is just like the Su-25T, except without VIKHRs or the tv display. I find it most effective with unguided rockets. It is pretty nasty against just about any ground target if you keep it fast. The F-15C is the best performing plane in the game with the finest radar and RWR. And it does it while boasting some of the worst missiles air to air missiles. I'm serious, they're trash. On the bright side, you can spam them. The Su-27 has longer ranged missiles, but they aren't fire and forget like the spammrams. The A-10A is like the A-10C, but without the 500 button presses to fire an unguided rocket.

Edited December 18, 2014 by King_Hrothgar

[Steel Jaw]

The DCS Bug and Cortex Rhino are going to change everything.

[kontiuka]

There is an AI Mig-15 that comes with the F-86...

Soon-to-be-flyable Mig-15. And I've seen videos of Mig-21s being taken out by the Sabre.

[Revan]

DCS has two levels of sim basically. One is a survey sim and the second is the full study sim where every little button and switch is modeled. Here's the current list for both types:

 

Survey: Su-25T, Flaming Cliffs 3 (can be bought individually as A-10A, Su-25, F-15C, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A/G/S)

 

Study: Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8, A-10C, MiG-21, F-86, Fw-190D, P-51D and Bf-109K.

 

The FC3 planes can be bought individually as mentioned. It is more expensive that way but if you only want 1 or 2, it can be cheaper. As for what I recommend, that really depends on you.

 

The A-10C is by far the most horrifically complicated plane in the game. I bought it and never use it. On the flip side, I find the Ka-50 the single most fun machine in the game. Like the A-10C, it models everything. Unlike the A-10C, it's intuitive and only slightly more complicated than the free Su-25T. And the Ka-50 is an absolute beast of a tank killer (best in game imho). It also makes a good spotter for other mud movers in MP.

 

The MiG-21 is a blast to fly and like the Ka-50, relatively simple to operate. Unfortunately it lacks any proper opponents atm. The plane itself can go toe to toe with an F-15C, but the radar, RWR and missiles are such unbelievable trash that you'll be dead long before you ever see them typically. The skill level required to shoot down other humans with it is high and often requires the other guy to be inept too. Ground control or AWACs are absolutely mandatory for this plane to be effective in air to air. It is surprisingly effective at ground attack though. Fun plane to go barreling through a valley at mach 1 in while hurling an S-25 rocket at a tank.

 

The F-86 currently serves no purpose in game as it doesn't have anything to fight. The WW2 planes are only slightly better off, being able to fight each other but without any AI bombers or ground units to give a proper scenario.

 

The UH-1 is a perfectly good cargo chopper. Beyond that it's a death trap. It serves a purpose in game but is about as exciting as flying a C-130. I don't have the Mi-8 but doubt it's much better in that regard. It does have more armament options though, and from what I've seen on youtube, is substantially more maneuverable.

 

FC3 planes currently represent the effective fighters. The MiG-29's are horribly out of date, featuring a cockpit and FM from the original LOMAC release back in 2003-ish. All the other planes in it are up to current cockpit standards. With the exception of the MiG-29's and Su-33, they also have more current FM's. The Su-25 is just like the Su-25T, except without VIKHRs or the tv display. I find it most effective with unguided rockets. It is pretty nasty against just about any ground target if you keep it fast. The F-15C is the best performing plane in the game with the finest radar and RWR. And it does it while boasting some of the worst missiles air to air missiles. I'm serious, they're trash. On the bright side, you can spam them. The Su-27 has longer ranged missiles, but they aren't fire and forget like the spammrams. The A-10A is like the A-10C, but without the 500 button presses to fire an unguided rocket.

 

 

What he said. However I do have to say that I believe buying FC3 (Flaming Cliffs 3) is overall the better deal, because, if you ever decide that you want to fly any of the aircraft that you are currently not interested in, you will have it already. Also, as Eagle Dynamics gets around to updating the rest of the aircraft in it, all of the updated cockpits and Flight Models come free to FC3 owners.

[Call911]

A10C hands down, best flite sim ever developed IMO.

[Jumbik]

I have started in KA-50. It's just matter of taste in my opinion. You cannot go wrong with DCS modules.

[SilentGun]

A10C hands down, best flite sim ever developed IMO.

 

 

It is the best, or at least for the general public.

[DarkFire]

I mostly fly the Su-27 and Su-25T. I'd recommend playing FC3. Though the aircraft aren't modelled at the same level of detail as the study modules I'd say that FC3 is far beyond what were traditionally described as "survey" sims such as things like Jane's IDF etc.

 

The Su-25T is a great tank buster with comparatively light pilot workload. It is however a very fussy aircraft to fly, particularly when you approach the edges of the flight envelope. The CG is to the rear so if it departs you're screwed unless you have stacks of altitude to recover. Even then, maybe. Most days I love flying it. Some days it just does its best to kill me. Hey ho.

[rajdary]

The A-10C is by far the most horrifically complicated plane in the game. I bought it and never use it. On the flip side, I find the Ka-50 the single most fun machine in the game. Like the A-10C, it models everything. Unlike the A-10C, it's intuitive and only slightly more complicated than the free Su-25T. And the Ka-50 is an absolute beast of a tank killer (best in game imho). It also makes a good spotter for other mud movers in MP.

 

The MiG-21 is a blast to fly and like the Ka-50, relatively simple to operate. Unfortunately it lacks any proper opponents atm. The plane itself can go toe to toe with an F-15C, but the radar, RWR and missiles are such unbelievable trash that you'll be dead long before you ever see them typically. The skill level required to shoot down other humans with it is high and often requires the other guy to be inept too. Ground control or AWACs are absolutely mandatory for this plane to be effective in air to air. It is surprisingly effective at ground attack though. Fun plane to go barreling through a valley at mach 1 in while hurling an S-25 rocket at a tank.

 

The F-86 currently serves no purpose in game as it doesn't have anything to fight. The WW2 planes are only slightly better off, being able to fight each other but without any AI bombers or ground units to give a proper scenario.

 

Hahahaha, it really sounds as if you are giving the review of a torture! :lol:

 

You forgot to mention that this torture is a shot in your body of satisfaction, once you master a module like the A10C. It is pure gratification, you forget about all the drawbacks and bugs of the game and simply ask ED for more...

Its really worth it but it will take many many hours. I started with the SU25T and as soon as i had a bit of a grip to it, i immediately left and got going with the A10C. I didnt want to get bad habbits from flying an "easier" module. Same like playing with Labels, some views and others, its fine to use them when you are learning but as soon as you can stop using them if you really want to understand how things should work and be done.

Edited December 20, 2014 by rajdary

[Bucic]

Hi eladku!

Here are my two cents.

 

Put a strong emphasis on game controls. If you can't afford good controls now, establish a plan for the purchase! Skip some DCS modules if it must be but don't neglect the importance of solid controls. Really, DCS provides such a high quality content that it's literally game controllers being the weakest link here.

 

Here's the appropriate forum section

http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=96

 

This is a primer I've prepared for DCS BS but some points apply to DCS in general

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=63018

[King_Hrothgar]

Nah, I merely tried to give an overview of the pros and cons of each module. There really isn't any disputing that the A-10C's ergonomics and pilot workload leave something to be desired. It's not in any way the fault of DCS, it's just how the engineers over at Fairchild Republic built the thing. The module itself is wonderfully made.

 

In any case, I recommend FC3, Blackshark 2 and MiG-21 as candidates for getting started. I would not recommend the A-10C due to its complexity. The two transport choppers would also be good picks if you just want to fly around and not be in the middle of combat all the time. I can't speak for the Hip, but the Huey is simple both technically and in flying.

[MemphisBelle]

Bucic is absolutely right, I dont know whether you own a proper controll Setup (may be you can tell us, for providing Information about profiles and such things).

 

If/once you can skip this question and you concentrate on the modules, so I highly recommend the A-10C (which you already got). I also want to suggest to get in touch with online squadrons, as it makes learning things way easier with real guys who tell you how things are working, instead of doing this alone. It isnt just easier, it is also more fun of course.

 

According to your FC3 question...if financially possible, get the FC3 module (reason why has already been stated enough).

 

You also might consider to get the Combined Arms module (later, not essentially now), as we´re about to have great opportunities with this (anytime later). I also would mention to wait for sales (sorry ED), as it doesnt hurt so much if you notice that a module is absolutely not yours (like the MI-8 is for me :( )

[Flogger23m]

Thank you both for your quick replies!

 

I bought the A-10C module some time ago but never give it a go.... I was thinking about getting the F15C though

 

Buy Flaming Cliffs 3 as it is a better value. Start with the FC3 aircraft, F-15C being the easiest, before going to a full DCS level aircraft.

[Lizzard]

The UH-1 is a perfectly good cargo chopper. Beyond that it's a death trap. It serves a purpose in game but is about as exciting as flying a C-130. I don't have the Mi-8 but doubt it's much better in that regard.

 

:megalol:

[Thumper1606688436]

Some might consider flying the F15C at 30000ft staring at nothing but sky and launching fire & forget missiles at rectangular radar blips as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

A lot of the DCS modules require you to visually spot targets which is a real problem in DCS but not for the Huey because it's a f*****g bullet magnet! It always gets my adrenaline going rushing into a hot zone below 100ft, raining death down on targets you can actually see while bullets are entering the cockpit.

 

Different strokes for different folks.

[ronbo613]

Like you, I am new to DCS, here's what I've done so far.

 

The Holiday Sale at Steam on DCS DLC could not come at a better time. I bought Flaming Cliffs 3 because you can fly a number of planes and get a feel for the sim. I also got the A-10C and Black Shark 2(Ka-50) because they seem to be very popular and representative aircraft for DCS. I also got the P-51D because I love WW II aircraft and is a really good deal. I'd love to get the Bf 109, but I might have to wait until later, hoping the price may drop a bit.

 

I am really enjoying DCS. I have a relatively modest computer and use an older Saitek Cyborg Evo joystick, but it works fine with DCS.

 

Might have to get a "newbie" multiplayer lobby going and ban everyone that looks like they know what they are doing.

[PFunk1606688187]

Nah, I merely tried to give an overview of the pros and cons of each module. There really isn't any disputing that the A-10C's ergonomics and pilot workload leave something to be desired. It's not in any way the fault of DCS, it's just how the engineers over at Fairchild Republic built the thing. The module itself is wonderfully made.

 

In any case, I recommend FC3, Blackshark 2 and MiG-21 as candidates for getting started. I would not recommend the A-10C due to its complexity. The two transport choppers would also be good picks if you just want to fly around and not be in the middle of combat all the time. I can't speak for the Hip, but the Huey is simple both technically and in flying.

 

I don't think you fully appreciate the low workload afforded to one by the avionics in the A-10 compared to the Ka-50. There are things in the Blackshark that require multiple button presses that require only one button press in the A-10C.

 

I would never call the Black Shark ergonomic or intuitive with respect to avionics. Most of its systems can't talk to each other and function like they run on tape cassettes from the 80s.

 

Of course if you've never actually committed to learning the A-10C I can hardly expect you to really understand how the systems work. Complexity is not a detractor, not when that complexity creates functionality that the Black Shark wishes it had.

 

Simply the A-10C is a 21st century combat aircraft benefiting from all the modern ergonomics and streamlined integrated systems. The Black Shark is not and does not. You might have a point if you were talking about the A-10A.

 

Just try sending datalink information to your wingman in the Ka-50 then the A-10C. One is stupidly high on workload while the other is not.

[Tirak]

I don't think you fully appreciate the low workload afforded to one by the avionics in the A-10 compared to the Ka-50. There are things in the Blackshark that require multiple button presses that require only one button press in the A-10C.

 

I would never call the Black Shark ergonomic or intuitive with respect to avionics. Most of its systems can't talk to each other and function like they run on tape cassettes from the 80s.

 

Of course if you've never actually committed to learning the A-10C I can hardly expect you to really understand how the systems work. Complexity is not a detractor, not when that complexity creates functionality that the Black Shark wishes it had.

 

Simply the A-10C is a 21st century combat aircraft benefiting from all the modern ergonomics and streamlined integrated systems. The Black Shark is not and does not. You might have a point if you were talking about the A-10A.

 

Just try sending datalink information to your wingman in the Ka-50 then the A-10C. One is stupidly high on workload while the other is not.

 

Diving into the A-10C if you're not a hardcore simmer already is a pretty daunting task. The aircraft itself can be set up within a few minutes, but once you start to dive into the computers, well for those of us who started in a Sim Lite background, you start to wonder what's the point. This can be made even worse if you lack the proper equipment. You don't need Trackir, but it helps tremendously, you don't need some form of HOTAS, but again, it helps a massive amount.

 

I know that when I moved over to DCS from Strike Fighters 2, I spent a very long time just rerunning the tutorials and reading through the monster of a manual that came with A-10C and at no point did I really think I had a handle on anything. I know quite a bit about planes, and I could make the A-10C do what I wanted it to do, but it didn't feel fun, intuitive or enjoyable.

 

I switched over to the A-10A and SU-25T with a bunch of friends, and we had a blast. Then from there, a few of us got the Saber, then the MiG-21, and each time we changed planes, we upped the complexity. The Saber is practically effortless, you're off the ground in 3-5 button clicks, you're dogfighting with another 3, but it's a fully clickable cockpit, gives you an idea of what you're in for. The MiG-21 bumps up the ancillary buttons and functions, but is still pretty easy to understand, sure there's a hell of a lot of switches and buttons that could no doubt be made more intuitive, but by breaking them down into their parts, you get a better understanding of what you're doing and why.

 

When I went back to the A-10C after getting a handle on the MiG-21, it didn't seem nearly so daunting because by flying the other aircraft, I had gotten used to the increasing complexity and got used to the terminology and abbreviations in a more organic way. While the A-10C offers the most complete modern fighter in DCS so far, I'd say that diving into it straight away, without friends who can either laugh as you all screw it up, or who can babysit your way through the aircraft, is a really bad idea.

 

Honestly the best starter module is the SU-25T. It's easy to fly, a bunch of my friends use XBox controllers to fly it, simple to understand, has a worthwhile payload and is free. I was able to get most of my friends into starting to play DCS just through that module. Then, once you've got an idea of what's important and what's not, what needs to be mapped and what doesn't, and just a general idea of how to actually fight in DCS, shifting to a more complex module, or jumping right for the A-10C, is a good idea.

 

Anyway, my 2c.

[Witchking]

I agree...fc3 is a fantastic buy after u try and get used to the su-25t included. It's an amazing plane. Lots of fun. And then move on to the others. If u then want the complexity, I personally like the a-10c...my favorite apart from the flanker. Everything else comes after. ;)

[King_Hrothgar]

I don't think you fully appreciate the low workload afforded to one by the avionics in the A-10 compared to the Ka-50. There are things in the Blackshark that require multiple button presses that require only one button press in the A-10C.

 

I would never call the Black Shark ergonomic or intuitive with respect to avionics. Most of its systems can't talk to each other and function like they run on tape cassettes from the 80s.

 

Of course if you've never actually committed to learning the A-10C I can hardly expect you to really understand how the systems work. Complexity is not a detractor, not when that complexity creates functionality that the Black Shark wishes it had.

 

Simply the A-10C is a 21st century combat aircraft benefiting from all the modern ergonomics and streamlined integrated systems. The Black Shark is not and does not. You might have a point if you were talking about the A-10A.

 

Just try sending datalink information to your wingman in the Ka-50 then the A-10C. One is stupidly high on workload while the other is not.

 

How many buttons do you need on your HOTAS to operate the A-10C at peak efficiency in combat? How many do you need on the Ka-50? How many of those buttons have multiple functions? Add them up, the Ka-50 requires less than half the buttons the A-10C does. That covers the complexity and pilot workload right there. The number of buttons doesn't lie. ;)

 

And that's what this thread is about. It's asking what modules are good for a beginner, the A-10C is clearly not one of them.