VKB Gladiator WWII joystick

[Abburo]

It happens always that only bad things are widely visible, while good things remain hidden.

 

Kindly ask people having second thoughts on VKB products to take a deep breath and think again. VKB is the only one for now who really try to develop something that we, as niche community, do really need.

 

Don't like the Gladiator because is not supporting Warthog? Don't like Windows because Linux exists? No problem, uninstall Windows and go for Linux. Same here: sell your Gladiator or even better donate it to a closer friend (community will grow) and go buy your Gunfighter later on. I will not buy that somebody who afford warthog and gladiator cannot afford later one the Gunfighter.

 

So, I just want give VKB some credits for their good work. Please do the same and encourage such rare initiatives.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Abburo

[Kailorn]

Vkb makes incredible products. Nobody cant say different.

 

But I dont play warbirds. I am a Space Simmer. I dont know if that makes me a second level simmer but its the truth.

 

I need lots of buttons in my hotas. I purchased a Gladiator Pro because it was very clearly and officially advertised that it was compatible with cougar and warthog grips using an adaptor. I bought it because of that.

 

Vkb makes incredible products but I dont trust them anymore

[Bourrinopathe]

Maybe VKB just wants to avoid issues with people putting too much mechanical stress on their Gladiator Pro.

You know how people can be. So if they break their Gladiator's base because they're fighting with their stick, they'll just complain it did not endure.

Some guy already broke his Gladiator's trigger after all (it's plastic but you'll have to squeeze hard to brake it). And I have one, it's not that fragile.

 

Anyway. Theoretically, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to use a Warthog adapter on the Gladiator Pro. It's the same gimbal as the Black Mamba III. So it should be fully compatible.

 

At least, I didn't see any official announcement/confirmation/clarification stating it won't be possible (ever ever ever) to use a Warthog grip with the Gladiator Pro.

Until then, please don't go all BRRRRRRT on VKB ;)

[Fri13]

Vkb makes incredible products. Nobody cant say different.

 

But I dont play warbirds. I am a Space Simmer. I dont know if that makes me a second level simmer but its the truth.

 

I need lots of buttons in my hotas. I purchased a Gladiator Pro because it was very clearly and officially advertised that it was compatible with cougar and warthog grips using an adaptor. I bought it because of that.

 

Vkb makes incredible products but I dont trust them anymore

 

This thread has been informative for me, as I have hope for VKB to make something special for this "niche" gaming market. But I am like you, I don't care about WW2 era aircrafts as I can fly those with any stick from 80's even.

I am on market seeking something for helicopters and for more modern aircrafts like Su-25T and such. And that was thing that made me interest of VKB as they likely have capability to make a good HOTAS system (if they want) with plenty of different kind sticks and even throttles.

 

More and more it starts to look that if wanted to get something, it is better to own a 3D printer, buy the circuit boards and actually think to build HOTAS by itself, if there just would be time.

One thing that I don't see as so required is to have a HOTAS that is replicant, just that it has functions that are needed. And one of the key factor for me would be a modularity, so you can buy a couple sticks (one for fighters, one for helicopters or different era) and then same for throttle (change throttle to single axis or dual axis for single or two engine models, add extension and get collective with wanted head etc).

 

Today things can be done very affordable material prices, like a custom aluminium stick or throttle with all wanted holes etc wouldn't be more than couple euros, cheaper than plastic even. But the costs rise up if needed to make multiple ones as it is so slow to carve parts so it would be just very custom work.

 

If some company would start producing all the gimbals and sensors that can be purchased as kits and easily attached with screws etc, there would probably be market for it as making super simple to buy the parts and just guide buyers to services ways to make own sticks and throttles (from wood, plastic, metal etc) it would likely make many simulation fan happier.

 

VKB has good change for that as pre-assembled (bases for sticks and throttles, pre-made stick and throttle grips) that buyer can get, but looks like something just makes them to re-plan their business now.

But would most a serious simulation "freak" enjoy from non-replica HOTAS? Of course F-16 fans would scream not to have exact F-16 stick, but if you can get same amount of buttons and axis by own third party design stick, wouldn't it work?

[debolestis]

Can somebody post photos of Gladiator's tailpiece?

[SVgamer72]

It happens always that only bad things are widely visible, while good things remain hidden.

 

Kindly ask people having second thoughts on VKB products to take a deep breath and think again. VKB is the only one for now who really try to develop something that we, as niche community, do really need.

 

Don't like the Gladiator because is not supporting Warthog? Don't like Windows because Linux exists? No problem, uninstall Windows and go for Linux. Same here: sell your Gladiator or even better donate it to a closer friend (community will grow) and go buy your Gunfighter later on. I will not buy that somebody who afford warthog and gladiator cannot afford later one the Gunfighter.

 

So, I just want give VKB some credits for their good work. Please do the same and encourage such rare initiatives.

 

****Statements retracted after official update from VKB****

Edited October 12, 2016 by SVgamer72

[dburne]

If it is true that no adapter will be produced, then VKB pulled a bait and switch. That is a slimy business practice. There is no other way to paint it.

 

That is too bad, I am sure several folks bought it with using the Warthog grip in mind.

I have been holding out for the Gunfighter but if an adapter was not available for it I would not buy it. Sounds like after the gunfighter release I better wait till an adapter is available before even considering buying it...

[Sokol1_br]

Well, now is await VKB explain their new plans... for the next year. :)

[Fri13]

If it is true that no adapter will be produced, then VKB pulled a bait and switch. That is a slimy business practice. There is no other way to paint it.

 

There is always possibility that Thrustmaster called and said that VKB can't do that, and now everyone is blaming VKB from breaking their pre-promise without knowing their hands can be tied.

[Kailorn]

There is always possibility that Thrustmaster called and said that VKB can't do that, and now everyone is blaming VKB from breaking their pre-promise without knowing their hands can be tied.

 

Its a possibility but then VKB would be fast to explain than they are not the evil part in this case. And, why would Thrustmaster wanted to do something that may reduce sales of its own joystick warthog?

 

Im more inclined to think that reason is related to the recent broken gimbal for using gladiator pro with an extension...till VKB response arrives (after a month of silence around this in english forum)

[Bearfoot]

An adapter to use the Warthog grip on the Gladiator-Pro was part of their pre-sale marketing.

 

Many people like myself would not have purchased the G-Pro without this feature.

 

If it is true that no adapter will be produced, then VKB pulled a bait and switch. That is a slimy business practice. There is no other way to paint it.

 

It is unfortunate and sad.

 

But no reason to ascribe intentionality/malice/subterfuge ("slimy business practice") when simple a c***up will do.

 

Nothing VKB has done ever indicates they are out to grab $$$ and run. A lot of what VKB has done indicates that they are a small, small, small, company that are trying hard to punch above their weight to get started. Superbly designed products, learn-as-you-go-with-glitches-on-the-way production/business.

 

Again, not to take away from your loss here: sympathies.

 

Having said that, I know I read somewhere when the Gladiator was released that it emphatically was not designed to take the WH handle due to weakness of the base, and that is why I held off (and will continue to hold off) for the Gunfighter. I am not saying that the information you got was not from the horse's mouth etc. etc. But just that there was sufficient information out there to guide me correctly. Not sure why you got led astray.

[kverdon]

Sorry but VKB does not get a pass here. Advertising a product with certain features and then delivering the product without those features without providing advance notice or compensation *IS* slimey business practice. It is up to VKB here. They either need to provide the marketed adapter or offer some form of compensation to those people who purchased the Gladiator Pro based upon VKB's word that it would work with the Warthog.

 

The information from VKB was always that the Gladiator would have a new plastic Gimbal and as such would not handle the Warthog Grip but the Gladiator Pro would come with the Metal Gimbal and as such, would be able to take the Warthog grip.

 

It does not help VKB's cause that their North American sales rep has dropped off the face of the earth once the Adapter issue raised its head. He has not responded to any inquiries on the website in over a month. I'm beginning to wonder if he's thrown in the towel.

Edited October 11, 2016 by kverdon
Update.

[cichlidfan]

There is always possibility that Thrustmaster called and said that VKB can't do that, ...

 

I seriously doubt that happened. First, I don't think TM has any legal grounds to stop them, and second, VKB is too small for TM to be likely to care, either way.

 

However, if it were the case, then it would certainly apply to any of their products, including the Gunfighter.

Edited October 11, 2016 by cichlidfan

[rrohde]

It does not help VKB's cause that their North American sales rep has dropped off the face of the earth once the Adapter issue raised its head. He has not responded to any inquiries on the website in over a month. I'm beginning to wonder if he's thrown in the towel.

 

He's always active on the IL-2 site; for example, here:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25219-battle-kuban-pre-order-now-available/

[dburne]

The information from VKB was always that the Gladiator would have a new plastic Gimbal and as such would not handle the Warthog Grip but the Gladiator Pro would come with the Metal Gimbal and as such, would be able to take the Warthog grip.

 

Yep that is how I remember it as well, they did advertise the Pro would be able to accept the Warthog adapter once it was available, for whatever reason ( likely the gimbal design) that apparently has been pulled.

 

I was considering going ahead and getting the Gladiator Pro based on what they had previously stated, sure glad I decided to wait for the Gunfighter instead. I would have been really ticked if I had purchased one. And after this, really starting to have second thoughts about the Gunfighter as well, will see.

[rrohde]

Before we jump to conclusions here, Daisy from VKB said that the TM Warthog adapters would be produced in September. I'll still give them the benefit of the doubt and hope they'll be available soon (I still have an unused Warthog grip lying around for my VKB Mamba as well).

[Bearfoot]

Sorry but VKB does not get a pass here. Advertising a product with certain features and then delivering the product without those features without providing advance notice or compensation *IS* slimey business practice.

 

Nope. Sucks and sucky, either way, but IHMO there is a moral line between "deliberate fraudulent bait & switch" and "c**k-up", IMHO. Now, this line may not be recognized legally (i.e., courts/business laws may find the party in the wrong regardless of whether the false claims were deliberate or not), and I am not a lawyer so I don't know either way. IMHO (again) it remains to be demonstrated if VKB crossed that moral line of deliberate misleading vs. messed up. And, of course, how they handle the justifiably pissed-off customers who were led astray will also be important as to their reputation.

 

Of course, perhaps more importantly, we might all be jumping the gun here, getting worked up over forum postings rather than official announcements ...

[hansangb]

I'm with you Bearfoot. It certainly doesn't sound like some evil plan was afoot. It's more likely that unforeseen problem made them change their plans. There's man-slaughter and murder charges for the same reason. If there was no intent, it's the former.

[kverdon]

The difference between the "manslaughter" and "murder" charge here would ride on whether VKB decided to not produce the Adapter before they shipped the Pros and then did not notify customers in order to allow them to cancel based upon that decision.

 

It would Be good to get a straight answer out of VKB. We appear to have conflicting answers from VKB Daisy and VKB Europe Eduard as to whether the adapter is coming. Their US Rep is hiding.

 

How VKB handles this if it indeed turns out to be a "C***-Up" and there is not a Warthog adapter will go a long way to determining their reputation as a company. Yes mistakes can be made but then there is an obligation to compensate the customer.

[Bearfoot]

The difference between the "manslaughter" and "murder" charge here would ride on whether VKB decided to not produce the Adapter before they shipped the Pros and then did not notify customers in order to allow them to cancel based upon that decision.

 

Agreed.

 

It would Be good to get a straight answer out of VKB. We appear to have conflicting answers from VKB Daisy and VKB Europe Eduard as to whether the adapter is coming.

 

Agreed ... though I would allow for a reasonable delay as they check with the engineers to see if anything can be done, or otherwise with the business planners to come up with a reasonable strategy to handle it.

 

How VKB handles this if it indeed turns out to be a "C***-Up" and there is not a Warthog adapter will go a long way to determining their reputation as a company. Yes mistakes can be made but then there is an obligation to compensate the customer.

 

Agreed.

[Bourrinopathe]

Maybe there's a misinterpretation from Eduard (VKB Europe), or some kind of misunderstanding. So, please and again, we should wait for an official clarification from the main VKB team.

 

Technically, the Gladiator Pro IS compatible with their Warthog grip adapter. I can't see why it would not be available. Maybe the availability is just delayed. VKB is not Logitech $$$ or manpower.

 

And that modularity is something very specific to VKB. No reason it's been unexpectedly ditched during the development and production processes ;-)

Edited October 12, 2016 by Bourrinopathe
fighting android autocorrection

[Bearfoot]

Maybe there's a misinterpretation from Eduard (VKB Europe), or some kind of misunderstanding. So, please and again, we should wait for an official clarification from the main VKB team.

 

Agreed ... x10!

[kverdon]

Maybe there's a misinterpretation from Eduard (VKB Europe), or some kind of misunderstanding. So, please and again, we should wait for an official clarification from the main VKB team.

 

Agreed, I have emailed Daisy at VKB directly and requested clarification.

[Neurowork]

Technically, the Gladiator Pro IS compatible with their Warthog grip adapter. I can't see why it would not be available. Maybe the availability is just delayed. VKB is not Logitech $$$ or manpower.

 

Actually it is not compatible as is. The Warthog stick has 5 pins but the Gladiator Pro only has 3.

 

If you read further up this thread, I explained the story. In short, at some point when the glad pro was up for order in Europe, I was in contact with Eduard and I requested a warthog adapter before I ordered. Eduard had a couple in stock from the Black Mamba and though it would be the same. When I received the glad pro and the adapter, I discovered that I would not be able to use it because of

Eduard told me that he was trying to be helpful as I was insistent to have the adapter and did make the sale but later heard that it required an additional PCB and software update. He had no ETA from mothership and offered me to send everything back, free of charge.

 

I'm guessing that the mechanical problems they discovered on the gimbals and the 3 wire protocol versus 5 made them give up and focus on making the Gunfighter instead.

[UIV]

During our latest session about VKB roadmap Eduard has misunderstood me. I have told him that VKB does not recommend to install a grip extension for Gladiator pro together with Warthog grip due to excessive forces may be applied to a plastic housing and, also, the low position of Gladiator Pro is not convenient. Gunfighter fits much better for that.

The grip wiring is now completely new in Gladiator Pro and Gunfighter flightsticks. It uses new microcontroller based 3-wire digital bus which allows to control now buttons and axis. Current 5-wire bus of Warthog grip communicates only data about buttons. in order to adapt 5-wire and 3-wire bus, we designed and produced special adaptor board. That's why, the new adaptor kit will consist of mechanical adaptor which allows to mount the grip to the base, electrical adaptor (PCB) required to connect 5-wire and 3-wire buses and special firmware update.

The mechanical and electrical components are produced and in stock. The firmware is being tested. When the tests are completed, we will be ready to accept orders.