TWC_SLAG Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Also, you may want to mess with your joystick curves to see what works best for you. I had my pitch set to 32 but that didn't work at all for me as I didn't have enough control when the plane was at the edge of stalling. Now I use a curve of 20 and I have a lot more control at the edge. In other words I have more stick to use when I feel it start to shake. How do you adjust joystick curves. I use the MS FFB2. Thanks, badfinger TWC_SLAG Win 10 64 bit, 2T Hard Drive, 1T SSD, 500GB SSD, ASUS Prime Z390 MB, Intel i9 9900 Coffee Lake 3.1mhz CPU, ASUS 2070 Super GPU, 32gb DDR4 Ram, Track IR5, 32” Gigabyte curved monitor, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Voice Attack, hp Reverb G2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacEwan Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Curves can be tweaked under Options > Controls > Axis Tune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f86enthusiast Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 You stalled plain and simple, there is no bug, no magic solution besides a smoother input of stabilator. Tweaking your curves might help. Aggressiveness was a fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting. — Captain David McCampbell, USN, leading U.S. Navy ace in WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I'd expect things from AoA, not stick input (although AoA is created by stick and rudder input, but different speeds give you different results for the same amount of pull - thus AoA is the important yard-stick over-all, buft for practical reasons a pilot might be interested in bank vs stall speed charts at least when landing) And with the stick to the left, the right wing (at least in the aileron portion of the wings) will have higher AoA than the left and therefore stall first, causing a right roll. The high drag of a stalled wing should exacerbate the situation with right yaw. I still don't see the problem. We can argue that the effect is too violent for the F-86F in the given situation (I don't have the data for that), but qualitatively it seems correct. Edited February 16, 2015 by Luzifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1.JaVA_Platypus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Seems a stall to me as well. The F-86 has a bit strange flight model. But this is definitely not a bug. You entered a high-speed stall. This is were the airstream seperates from the upper surface of the wings. Normally, the air will flow over the wings and 'sticks' to it. Not so in a stall. I'm pretty sure there is some wonderfull youtube video about it. It happens when you jerk the stick too hard. Your speed is pretty good, but 'pull' quite a lot of G's and causes your AoA to rise above the max of the sabre. It happens a lot more on propeller aircraft and is quite a common cause of crashes back in the 'ole' Il-2 days, because prop planes are a lot more susceptible to it. There is two options for you: 1.Fly with more gentle stick inputs 2.Add some more Curvature to the stick axis. Happy Flying! :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainhall Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 with swept wings, stalls happen sooner and more aggressively with increasing bank angle. says it right in the manual..... your banked at 90 degrees, pulling 10 G.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 this is a bug, I read old post here in the forum F-15C has the same problem The guy pulled too hard and as a consequence stalled the plane. wait 1 or 2 years to be corrected ,things move slowly here :) BS. Why don't you keep your mouth shut if you don't even know what an accelerated stall is? 1 The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troghv Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 This is the same problem such as in F-15C with AoA, not G. Why appears only in US Jet Fighters? http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=134680 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Why appears only in US Jet Fighters? Because the devs are clandestine communists? I've never even tried the new Su-27, but peeps say you can get her to depart as well. So unless Sukhoi shifted their production to the U.S. (which I doubt) I'm kind of suspecting your question is invalid. S! The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troghv Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Because the devs are clandestine communists? I've never even tried the new Su-27, but peeps say you can get her to depart as well. So unless Sukhoi shifted their production to the U.S. (which I doubt) I'm kind of suspecting your question is invalid. S! No offence, but political argument is defective. I think, maybe wrong, they copy- paste some code-line (with not quiet made code) from previous to next FM plane, and now we see what we see. The first module who got PFM was F-15C with the same prob, next who got, is...guess?:smilewink:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzerd18 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Looks like the right wing stalled before the left causing an uncommanded roll to the right. Very possible and probable if the aircraft was slipping and not in a coordinated turn, as the right wing would be travelling at a lower airspeed and hence stall first and drop causing the roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 and now we see what we see So what do we see then? Looks to me we're seeing accelerated stalls modelled correctly. Do you know what those are? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Slip/skid is not an issue. You get the same behaviour after pulling out of a dive, wings level, straight up. Whether it's right or wrong, I cannot tell. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESAc_matador Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 your banked at 90 degrees, pulling 10 G.... no more explanation needed. Adverse yaw, stall and lot of things. since we do not feel the Gs, we have the sound of the pilot (yes he sound likea sitting in the toilet) and black vision... I wonder whappened it was not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayc00lio Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Makes dogfighting this thing a beast! Very difficult to keep from stalling out on what appears to be small turns, but when looking at g, those small turns are pretty violent! I cannot fight this thing at all. I've only been at it for a day mind you and hopefully I'll get better. Guns only, 1v1, verses the F86 and the MiG15. I cannot get behind any of them! For long! Managed to get some hits on the Sabre in F86vF86, but never the Mig15! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus ROG Rampage Extreme VI; i9 7900X (all 10 cores at 4.5GHz); 32 Gb Corsair Dominator DDR4; EVGA 1080Ti Hybrid; 1Tb Samsung 960 Evo M2; 2Tb Samsung 850 Pro secondary. Oculus Rift; TM Warthog; Saitek Combat Pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterH Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Can't say I'm a great Saber pilot but for what it's worth : Actually behaviour we see on the video in original post, if you can induce it when you are faster, does usually work for forcing an over shoot, even against human opponents. But after said overshoot window of opportuinty for shot is rather small, and MiG will have a lot options to get out of dodge and come back with much better energy than Saber. So, it is more of a last ditch move. I did force human oppents to overshoot that way, and seem to recall even hitting the MiG a bit after overshoot. But such potshots with .50 cals won't do much impression. Also, I have crashed twice at low alt because of that same maneuver :P. Against AI, MiG-15 can be defeated quite reliably actually. Against human opponents, I've went onlince twice with F-86, first day I did get 4 kills, but downed 11 times (granted, majority of those were 1 F-86 vs 3-5 MiG situations, or me crashing rather than getting shotdown :D). Second day, I couldn't get a single victory :D. Apparently MiG pilots learn faster than I do :P. What I've found is, if I am serious, 8 out of 10 I could deny the MiG a kill. But... I just couldn't get behind them myself... Saber is faster, and also handle better in high speeds, and also in dives can gain speed better. But if I can't get behind them in the first turn, or, even if I can but can't get a firing solution, it turns into a sustained turning contest, and MiG outturn me there. May be I should use flaps don't know... My problem in Saber isn't this stall characteristic or low speed handling. It's not a low speed loving aircraft anyway. MY problems are firepower doesn't quite cut it, and that strange behaviour, when I sometimes push the stick forward to nose down, pilot goes blackout (yes, not red but blackout), I lose control, and in external view, it shows somethnig between -0.7 to -3.7 G, even though aricraft is flying pretty much straigh, or even sometimes nose up attitude... That particular thing killed me much more often than actual firepower from MiGs... So much I have actually started to fly it like a early Spitfire or Hurricane, now if I want to lower my nose, I roll over and pull the stick... Edited March 2, 2015 by WinterH Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwiatek Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Yes i found also that at high speed when you push stick you got immidietly blackout for a while. Not sure if it is realistic casue i know that pilot could stay about -5 G without loss of consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterH Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Also, what compounds firepower problem in F-86 is, excessive muzzle smoke and excessive canopy glare. Sabers guns pretty much require a tracking burst of around half a second. With that smoke and glare, even if you connect some shots, it is very difficult to keep a tracking burst to do enough damage. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 -5 G without loss of consciousness. Blackout? Nah. It's redout you should be talking about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redout The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterH Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Yeah, itshould be redout we should be talking about, but, DCS : F-86 quite otten gives us a blackout with negative g when we push stick forward even briefly. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 The Mig-15 emits lots of muzzle smoke too, but I agree, the Sabre canopy is somehow borked. Looks dirty and that glare is just weird. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 a blackout with negative g Really? I haven't flown the Sabre lately so cannot remember just now - but if that indeed is so, it's wrong and should be fixed. The 15bis, however, seems to have its G-fx right; got a sizable case of redout just yesterday when I pushed the beast down hard... The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) My problem in Saber isn't this stall characteristic or low speed handling. It's not a low speed loving aircraft anyway. MY problems are firepower doesn't quite cut it, ... The Low rate of fire (800 instead of 1200) for the Sabre's guns still hasn't been fixed. ticket #28111. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=131612&page=2 The fire rates can be adjusted in ...\CoreMods\aircraft\F-86\F-86.lua and improves TTK for single player missions but Belsimtek need to push a MP compatible update for everyone. Issue is now fixed in internal version ;) Edited March 2, 2015 by Ramsay Add derelor's comment i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayc00lio Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Dagnamit! I managed this time to get some really good hits - flew against another F86 and seemed to take ages, trying to get the feel for it but always managing to spin out or stall and loose him. He was a lot easier to find when he was smoking! Anyway, I lost, my engine broke and I managed to belly land in a field. Getting better though :-) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus ROG Rampage Extreme VI; i9 7900X (all 10 cores at 4.5GHz); 32 Gb Corsair Dominator DDR4; EVGA 1080Ti Hybrid; 1Tb Samsung 960 Evo M2; 2Tb Samsung 850 Pro secondary. Oculus Rift; TM Warthog; Saitek Combat Pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL0083 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I looks like the stall and spin just simply not violent enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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