Very hard to stall (after latest patch) ?

[CoBlue]

Updated today to the latest patch 1.2.15 .

Noticed that the 21 is much harder to stall then before.

When doing AFM at speeds above 500 km/h I can pull, bank, twist hard on the stick reaching 8G in an instance, but it's almost impossible to exceed max AoA & stall?

The FM seems to be very much different than before...almost like "game mode" ? Is this how it's supposed to be?

Anybody else have the same experience?

Edited March 1, 2015 by CoBlue

[WinterH]

Yeah just tested, if that's how it is supposed to be, well cool, I guess. But I just pull the stick all the way and AoA maxes out at the end of yellow zone.

[King_Hrothgar]

It seems the control authority has been reduced, hence it being harder to stall. This is true both with and without the control limiters active.

[Sleksa]

It seems the control authority has been reduced, hence it being harder to stall. This is true both with and without the control limiters active.

 

There's a way to deactivate them on the MiG-21?

[Nephilim]

Yeah, disable or manually set your ARU and watch the party

[King_Hrothgar]

Yes, left side switch (on/off) above and to the left of the APU switch. It's labeled "ARU System auto/manual" and to the right of it is an increase/neutral/decrease sensitivity switch. There is also an indicator dial. On the left side of the gun sight, it is the 2nd dial down from the top.

[Flagrum]

Not sure if I did this right ... but I was unable to get the AoA indicator into the red zone when I was pulling the stick completely into my lap while in a 90° bank - neither with ARU on nor with ARU off. At about IAS 700 km/h, btw.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Flagrum

[Derbysieger]

I can get the AoA indicator lights on only below 650km/h it seems. At higher speeds than 650km/h IAS I will max out at about 20-25 AoA and around 900km/h IAS and higher I will black out before getting anywhere close to critical AoA

[CoBlue]

Also roll rate in a clean configuration is much slower then before!

[Manuel_108]

Befor the patch, I had the red lights on in almost every turn. When doing a u-turn at Mach 1.5 at 45 000 ft for example.

[WinterH]

It seems, as you approach red zone in angle of attack display, aircraft starts to rock it's wings left and right and seem to stop pulling the nose more there.

 

Although, it also seem to change actual direction of movement much quicker, rather than the direction of nose only like it did before. When fast, just pull the stick and it'll happily go up to 12 g.

 

Soo, obviously I'm not a MiG-21 pilot IRL but, this behaviour feels kinda weird doesn2t it? :)

 

I'd like if someone from LNS can comment, is this change intentional and realistic or not? Feels less challenging to fly currently.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

Well I guess the ARU is performing it's job... But I kinda miss being able to ride it on the edge of stall. It loses in absolute maneuvering performance but it gains in pilot confidence and aggression. Now that I think about it, it wouldn't make much sense to have the ARU installed and still let the pilot override it and lose control of the plane.

 

You would think that we could just disable the ARU and exceed max AOA though.

[WinterH]

There is the manual setting for ARU, but the "High Speed / Neutral / Low Speed" switch next to it doesn't seem to do anything, it resets itself to neutral setting as soon as you change it.

[Flagrum]

Well I guess the ARU is performing it's job... But I kinda miss being able to ride it on the edge of stall. It loses in absolute maneuvering performance but it gains in pilot confidence and aggression. Now that I think about it, it wouldn't make much sense to have the ARU installed and still let the pilot override it and lose control of the plane.

 

You would think that we could just disable the ARU and exceed max AOA though.

The thing is, it seems that the ARU then is performing it's job even if it is not enabled ...

[xxJohnxx]

There is the manual setting for ARU, but the "High Speed / Neutral / Low Speed" switch next to it doesn't seem to do anything, it resets itself to neutral setting as soon as you change it.

 

The "high speed/low speed" switch should return to center. Basically, if you are in the manual mode you hold the switch into the "high speed" direction until you have set the desired speed ARU speed. With pushing it into "low speed" you can decrease the target speed again. I guess a better translation instead og "high speed/low speed" should be "increase speed/decrease speed".

[WinterH]

Hmm thanks... seems I still have some "RTFM" to do on MiG :)

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

The thing is, it seems that the ARU then is performing it's job even if it is not enabled ...

 

What does ARU stand for anyway?

Yeah you're right. I turned the ARU off and manually switched it to slow speed which should be the most sensitive elevator setting and I still found it hard to stall or get AOA into the red. This would suggest that the maximum elevator deflection has been reduced.

 

As long is it is more realistic now...

[Alfredson007]

 

As long is it is more realistic now...

 

Don't know, but it feels pretty boring now. It is indeed almost impossible to G-stall, and landing is succesful every single time. Well, maybe the landing gear was a tad too fragile before... but still..

[CoBlue]

Don't know, but it feels pretty boring now. It is indeed almost impossible to G-stall, and landing is succesful every single time. Well, maybe the landing gear was a tad too fragile before... but still..

Yes the new FM has turned the 21 to be very boring to fly :(

Even with the ARU set to manual & the ARU control guge set to minimum, you can't exceed the critical AoA!

Can Leatherneck please comment on this ?

[Kobymaru]

Yes the new FM has turned the 21 to be very boring to fly :(

If I would be LN, I'd be annoyed. Difficult flight model -> people complain. Easier flight model -> people still complain.

 

Even with the ARU set to manual & the ARU control guge set to minimum, you can't exceed the critical AoA!

Can Leatherneck please comment on this ?

I'm not LN, but I can defnitely comment this: you can't really stall, but you can easily get into the critical AoA's.

[Harle]

Difficult flight model -> people complain.

What was so difficult about it? What exactly were they complaining about?

P.S. I loved the previous FM so I'm somewhat pissed off by this change.

[Kobymaru]

What was so difficult about it? What exactly were they complaining about?

They complained that landings were too hard and that they always broke their landing gear. Now that they redid the engine, engine handling seems too hard (with this one I tend to agree).

 

P.S. I loved the previous FM so I'm somewhat pissed off by this change.

I'm not sure if it's actually the flight model or if it's missing some control authority or maybe the ARU is broken. Either way, weird things are going on. I have to say, even if it's a Beta, a product should approach completion and changes should calm down. But it seems completion is far away at the moment...

[sissypilot]

What does ARU stand for anyway?

Yeah you're right. I turned the ARU off and manually switched it to slow speed which should be the most sensitive elevator setting and I still found it hard to stall or get AOA into the red. This would suggest that the maximum elevator deflection has been reduced.

 

As long is it is more realistic now...

 

Автоматы регулирования управления which is automatics for regulating controll

 

It is quite the opposite: if aru fails to set to high speed (small deflection) mode the plane would incontrollably oscillate as it happened in 1971 with an f-13 in Hungary. There is no point of setting aru manually to high deflection while flying fast as you certanly would die. The manual setting is for safety: when you decrease speed for landing -in case aru fails- you can set it to high deflection manually from low to maintain controll it does not work other way. If aru fails your procedure is to fly slow and keep it at higy deflection, do not play with it.

 

I do not think that it is a bug at all. In fact ARU as system does not have to simulated at all I think, it is a waste of coding. It is nice to have it visualized, but it is a crucial system: if it fails the mission is over anyway. Though I share the opinion that this is the module which get further from completition with each update.

Edited March 11, 2015 by sissypilot

[Cobra847]

Автоматы регулирования управления which is automatics for regulating controll

 

It is quite the opposite: if aru fails to set to high speed (small deflection) mode the plane would incontrollably oscillate as it happened in 1971 with an f-13 in Hungary. There is no point of setting aru manually to high deflection while flying fast as you certanly would die. The manual setting is for safety: when you decrease speed for landing -in case aru fails- you can set it to high deflection manually from low to maintain controll it does not work other way. If aru fails your procedure is to fly slow and keep it at higy deflection, do not play with it.

 

I do not think that it is a bug at all. In fact ARU as system does not have to simulated at all I think, it is a waste of coding. It is nice to have it visualized, but it is a crucial system: if it fails the mission is over anyway. Though I share the opinion that this is the module which get further from completition with each update. The latest "update" messed up DCS so badly, that it had to be reinstalled.. comeon...

 

Except, you know, our module had absolutely nothing to do with the sim breaking or the module breaking. It was a bug in the updater.

[sissypilot]

Ok I edited out. Dont take it personally :)