Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[S3NTRY11]

So your suggesting that I'm bias and your not. Almost every post you make is in favor of the Vive unit for one reason or another. Some I agree with some I don't. If I don't agree, I'll post a reason for it. If you understood my posts at all you'd know I have no idea which one will end up being the better product, but just like you I post reasons why one might be better than the other. If you can't handle a counter argument, maybe you shouldn't post at all.

 

Of course Vive could win the day, with a good combination of price point, content, specs, etc, but once Vive was announced people seem to assume they've already won, and Oculus hasn't made any improvements to their product over the last eight months. Both teams will delivered improved specs over their last prototype. We simply don't know yet which developer will have the best combination of specs, content, price, and release date to suit our needs.

 

 

You say that Vive has the advantage in content, and I just gave some valid reasons why I think they don't.

 

Others think that Vive won't be anymore expensive than the Rift, I've just gave some valid reasons why the Rift might be cheaper.

 

I really hope that Vive can pull it off, so I can buy a VR headset as soon as possible. I just don't see Vive being the clear winner, YET.

As previously stated, the problem isn't necessarily with bias (I'll admit I'm a little biased towards the Vive, myself).

 

The problem is that you're phony about your neutrality. And you're clearly the most biased one in a thread relating to a product that weighs against your bias, as if to convert people away from the product they're supposedly discussing.

 

Further to this, whenever anyone mentions something positive about the Vive, you invariably counter, and sometimes with erroneous points, or blustering opinion. It railroads the conversation.

Edited November 19, 2015 by S3NTRY11

[S3NTRY11]

Be prepared to eat your smartphone.

 

The first prototype Constellation tacking was doing 12x12 months ago.

 

...and yet I'm not all that worried...

Also, Source?

 

Rift / Touch and two camera trackers will in all likelihood be cheaper than the Vive system.

Maybe.

 

Its also quite likely people will be able to preorder the Touch controllers at the same time as the headset.

Cool, So they can find out down the track whether what they bought is all its cracked up to be - sounds like vendor lock-in - sign me up.

 

Its now unlikely that many people will receive the Vive this year, with the majority having to wait until next year. With the Rift already coming of the assembly lines, the Vive's first to market advantage could be shrinking rapidly.

 

more of the same-old blustering stuff...

 

Its also likely that the Vive and Rift will be open for preorders at the same time this year.

Source?

 

I like how you jammed in the numbered points as if in response to mine, which is made hilarious by the fact your entire post was point-form.

 

I guess you may provide sources for one of the points I've requested source for... nah...

Edited November 19, 2015 by S3NTRY11
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[S3NTRY11]

I totally agree with the EA exec. Especially for sims. Vive has time to grow.

 

Virtual reality: EA exec believes VR won't be a worthwhile gaming investment for five years

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ea-exec-believes-virtual-reality-wont-be-worthwhile-investment-five-years-1529286

 

It's true that for the big players, it probably isn't worth the return on investment (unless you're Valve, I guess).

 

There is going to be such a surge in innovation, and most of the early trial and error will be completed by indies. Hopefully though, from that pool, there will be talent that goes on to draw the big funds and go from strength to strength.

 

Big players might be right to be cautious, but it does mean that they are also behind the curve on best-practice and innovation when it comes to future VR endeavours.

[wormeaten]

I already decide to wait for StarVR to get on market. I think it is worth it, difference is huge. 210° FOV against 110° by Oculus/Vive.

 

Most of the so called child sickness will be fixed by Oculus mostly who is already in dev version almost 3 years in public use so Vive already benefit from it. Same will be with StarVR who will come out about year after Oculus and Vive.

 

Maybe even Oculus and Vive release new model with 210° FOV in that time period. Major difference is actually only in 2 wide screens and optimized lenses for it so it is not rocket science and parts for it already exist on market.

[Brisse]

difference is huge. 210° FOV against 110°

 

You do realize that if you double the FOV, you increase the perceived size of a pixel by four, right? Pixel density is already a problem with only 100 degree FOV. Why would you want to make it four times worse?

[vicx]

For many game experiences the greater FOV will be better to have than a sharper more detailed image.

 

I can't see that being the case for flight sims but I wouldn't pass up the chance to test the StarVR in DCS or ANY other game/sim.

 

And StarVR could pull sometghing special out of the bag at the last minute ... something like interchangeable lenses that makes the FOV switchable. You could go from 105 to 210 depending on what game. Anyone who was sitting on the fence would just buy it.

 

Even at FOV 210 the StarVR will excel in close combat and driving games ... a lot of games sell in those areas.

[Chivas]

Virtuix Omni with HTC Vive & Lighthouse Enables Fully Decoupled Locomotion

http://www.roadtovr.com/virtuix-omni-htc-vive-lighthouse-vr-treadmill-decoupled-locomotion/

 

This is the type of tech, that could open up the world, and not be confined by an unrealistic 15x15 space. I think the Omni locomotion or other treadmill type will need refinement, but it could be the way to go, and would get rid of the Vive presence killer safety grid.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Chivas

[Chivas]

...and yet I'm not all that worried...

Also, Source?

 

Maybe.

 

Cool, So they can find out down the track whether what they bought is all its cracked up to be - sounds like vendor lock-in - sign me up.

 

 

 

more of the same-old blustering stuff...

 

Source?

 

I like how you jammed in the numbered points as if in response to mine, which is made hilarious by the fact your entire post was point-form.

 

I guess you may provide sources for one of the points I've requested source for... nah...

 

I've got news for you, sources mean very little when your dealing with information that hasn't been released yet.

 

You've jumped on the Vive bandwagon, with no idea what the final specs, content, price, preorders or release dates will be for either product.

 

If you have issues with my counter arguments, that's just too bad.

[S3NTRY11]

I've got news for you, sources mean very little when your dealing with information that hasn't been released yet.

What? You're so full of it.

I didn't really need the free kick, but ok.

 

You've jumped on the Vive bandwagon, with no idea what the final specs, content, price, preorders or release dates will be for either product.

I think you call that irony.

If you have issues with my counter arguments, that's just too bad.

What counter-arguments? It's just spam.

[cichlidfan]

Gentlemen,

 

With all due respect, this thread has deteriorated to the point that it sounds like Chevy Camaro and Ford Mustang enthusiasts arguing over the relative merits of the 2018 models. After a short while those guys just end up yelling at each other since neither can prove the superiority of, or much of anything else, about a product that does not yet exist.

 

Please take a few deep breaths and relax before someone gets a warning over something silly.

 

Respectfully,

cichlidfan

 

EDIT: Not a moderator, just concerned about the well being of all of us. :)

Edited November 19, 2015 by cichlidfan

[intx]

What? You're so full of it.

I didn't really need the free kick, but ok.

 

 

I think you call that irony.

 

What counter-arguments? It's just spam.

 

With your responses, I am reminded of the Monty Python's argument sketch....

[Chivas]

Not sure why people whine when someone makes a counterpoint to their argument. People shouldn't take it so personal. Posting sources that compare a new prototype of one dev, to an older prototype of another has very little merit. It would have merit if both devs were going release their unit exactly like their latest prototype, but that rarely happens, and certainly won't happen in this case.

 

All I'm suggesting is that people should wait for the facts before making a decision.

 

Yes I was on the Oculus bandwagon before the HTC Vive was announced, as there was little competition. Now that HTC Vive has been announced I could easily change my mind, but I'll wait for the final specs before making that decision. There is a lot of speculation on which unit will be better. If you don't like my speculation, well again too bad.

[S3NTRY11]

Virtuix Omni with HTC Vive & Lighthouse Enables Fully Decoupled Locomotion

http://www.roadtovr.com/virtuix-omni-htc-vive-lighthouse-vr-treadmill-decoupled-locomotion/

 

This is the type of tech, that could open up the world, and not be confined by an unrealistic 15x15 space. I think the Omni locomotion or other treadmill type will need refinement, but it could be the way to go, and would get rid of the Vive presence killer safety grid.

It's a solution, but I think having a rail around your waste is going to be a much greater impediment to presence than chaperone.

 

Chaperone will be there when it's necessary, the rail around your waste is constant.

 

Locomotion is a huge problem, and software design is going to trump hardware in the near-term.

[S3NTRY11]

With your responses, I am reminded of the Monty Python's argument sketch....

Well, I did state previously how tedious it was, so yes, it does emulate it to a large extent. The premise of that sketch is that one character is disingenuous (and dishonest), forming an argument...

Edited November 20, 2015 by S3NTRY11

[Chivas]

It's a solution, but I think having a rail around your waste is going to be a much greater impediment to presence than chaperone.

 

Chaperone will be there when it's necessary, the rail around your waste is constant.

 

Locomotion is a huge problem, and software design is going to trump hardware in the near-term.

 

I'm not so sure that the rail around the waste will be as much of an immersion killer as the chaperone system. The rail will always be there and may be quickly forgotten. The Chaperone system just suddenly appears to kick you out of presence. But people will make accommodations for the deficiencies if they like the total experience enough.

[vicx]

Icarus maybe you "will" buy the Virtuix Omni 3000 clone that Apple makes when they invent and patent "moving in place".

 

Introducing Apple iMove ... Go Places. Coming in 2020. You know it could happen :lol:

 

===

 

I am committed to getting the Vive because I will be experimenting with the Lighthouse tracking. All I needed was for Wags to confirm DCS will have Vive support. Even if Oculus announce *surprise* 4K screens for everyone ... I will still have to get the Vive because I have to have the tracking. Other people might be in a different situation but that's my mine.

 

If Oculus announce *surprise* Lighthouse Tracking ... all bets are off.

[S3NTRY11]

If Oculus announce *surprise* Lighthouse Tracking ... all bets are off.

CV2?

[Brisse]

although it might get the gaming couch potatoes up and back in shape with COD or BF4, 5, 6 or whatever the latest is. Not sure how you'd ever go prone or crouch behind cover with this thing.

 

You will have to let go of old and currently existing games when you get into VR (except flight/racing sims and similar). Just forget about them. They are made for mouse, keyboard and monitor or consoles and TV. Sure, you can mod them so they output to a VR headset, but the experience will be crap. VR is going to spawn new game developers, and new game genres specifically made for VR. Sure, they will be inspired and take some ideas from traditional games, but they will also be fundamentally different.

[hannibal]

VAPORWARE..

[dartuil]

So who tested these?

So i hear about 8th december but what price?

[S3NTRY11]

You do realize that if you double the FOV, you increase the perceived size of a pixel by four, right? Pixel density is already a problem with only 100 degree FOV. Why would you want to make it four times worse?

 

I think StarVR are doubling the screen size, and the pixel density is remaining roughly the same.

[Brisse]

I think StarVR are doubling the screen size, and the pixel density is remaining roughly the same.

 

Which means it will take four 980ti's to render all those pixels. Let's hope for the sake of StarVR that graphic cards take a big leap in performance now that their moving on to smaller fabrication process, and that prices are reasonable instead of the ridiculous prices we have seen on the current generation of graphic cards.

[StandingCow]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but I hope ED eventually implements VR SLI: [ame]https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/gameworks/vr/GameWorks_VR_2015_Final_handouts.pdf[/ame]

[Chivas]

It will be interesting to see the system requirements for the StarVR. High system requirements were the reason Vive, and Oculus settled on their much smaller displays for the first consumer version. Unless StarVR has some magic up their sleeve, I don't see their hardware having strong adoption for atleast a year or two.

[Chivas]

There is no doubt the VR headsets will get better every couple of years. The question is...will the first generation of VR headset be good enough. That's impossible to answer. For me the DK2 certainly wasn't good enough, to others it was fine.

 

I'm still hoping that refinements to the displays, lenses, and optic hardware/software in the first consumer versions will be good enough for me. Some will love some hate it. I know I have no further interest in flying in 2D, especially after experiencing the unprecedented immersion of even early VR prototype headsets. No one has yet seen or said how well the latest protoypes work with sims like WT, and DCS, other than saying their implemented. Many who have tried space sims with the latest prototypes seem to think it may be good enough.