Revisiting the Dora

[TomOnSteam]

oh great. It's bad enough online getting owned be new players. But this guy has 50 years experience, he's going to destroy me :)

[Strut]

Priceless interview, thanks YoYo and co.

[Blade_meister]

That was Awesome. What an Honor to interview him first hand. I would like to have a copy of these interviews, I hope maybe in the future they will be made available? Even for purchase?:thumbup:

 

S!Blade<><

[[DBS]TH0R]

Whats funyn tho, the interviewer asked, if he pressed the brakes, full throttle and then released - he said no. A few moments later he told a story with the landing and take off at the village where he needed the brakes for the full throttle start :D

 

Yeah, I found that funny too. Perhaps he answered a question about 109 referring to never using full brakes, then talked about 190 and village landing.

 

Eagerly waiting for part 2. :)

[Oydoron]

Whats funyn tho, the interviewer asked, if he pressed the brakes, full throttle and then released - he said no. A few moments later he told a story with the landing and take off at the village where he needed the brakes for the full throttle start :D

 

It appears he got the question confused with an earlier line of questioning about takeoff. It was asked whether he needed much rudder on takeoff. He explained that on the 109, you often needed to use brakes to steer the takeoff, but on the 190, the rudder had plenty of authority and you never needed to use the brakes.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Oydoron

[NeilWillis]

You have to admire guys like Herr Brunotte. I remember when I was on exercise in Germany whilst serving in the Household Cavalry. We were approached by a German war veteran who handed out beers, and then told us about his experiences when he was opposing the D-Day landings. Since then I have spoken to a crewman from the Scharnhorst, a stoker from the Hood who was absent for the final voyage due to a hospital stay, a guy who parachuted in to Arnhem, and was one of the lucky ones to cross the Rhine to safety at the end of the battle, and a member of 2 Para who fought at Goose Green in the Falklands.

 

Living through the trauma of warfare, and overcoming the psychological aftermath, no matter what your role, must be a huge burden.

 

These guys are a window on times and situations most of us couldn't even begin to understand, and I take my hat of to them all, and I'd like to thank Herr Brunotte for sharing some of his experiences here.

[leafer]

I remember Yo-Yo said maybe one day he would share the interview he recorded from 109D pilot. It's nice to know he didn't forget.

 

I loved the reminiscence when he and his buddy landed on that field. He went quiet after he told it and you could see his heart breaking. I wonder if he's still around.

[lion737]

Heinz did die some years ago (aged in the 80s). They stayed friends. The whole JG51 did meet as well every year, but in the meantime only very few are alive.

 

Quax

[hegykc]

What a great insight, and how great of you to make it public.

 

Best half hour spent since.. i don't know when.

[Screamadelica]

Thanks for posting this interview.

And a huge thank you and much respect to Erich for sharing his experiences with us.

[Solty]

This interview is amazing. I wish more people from those times were willing to go through it... or were allive to do it.

 

I must commed ED for showing this to public. It is a treasure that should be shown to all of humanity. Great job.

 

I wish somebody made such interviews with other pilots. I've seen only one similar venture with Bud Anderson. But interviewer didn't ask to much about P-51's flight characteristics.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Solty

[Flying-Kane]

Nice Video, really enjoyed it. :thumbup:

 

Where's the next one? :P

[Nedum]

It was not an FM issue - the joystick was not loaded with springs at all and for the pilot it was something weird because of unwanted roll input during pulling.

 

But he also said that he never got this wing shiver if he pulls straight in the air and try to let the D9 slip over a wing.

Many things of the ground behavior are completeley different to that what we have in DCS right now.

No need of breaking during taxi, he only need a little bit of rudder input, even during the start. Full power and not many ruder needed.

As I thought the whole time, the Simulation is to many math and much to less reality!

After landing they can push full brakes and they never had a no nose down!

Brakes hold the plane at full power!

NO need to raise the tail during the start. The tail raises on its own.

He easily reached 650 kph with the D9. Without WEP.

I love it that german is my native language, so I know exactly what he did say not only the underlines. They "say" not all he was really saying.

This wing dropping we have in DCS he never noticed in RL so hard and so suddenly.

The propp effects in DCS seem to be a way overdone.

And many more!

I don't know why so many people think that flying, starting and landing is only right if it's super hard!?

And that physic is not for WWII birds and if the american birds have a bad behavior the germans birds must have the same!?

At the end there is many to do for the WWII planes to act more realistic.

[Yo-Yo]

But he also said that he never got this wing shiver if he pulls straight in the air and try to let the D9 slip over a wing.

Many things of the ground behavior are completeley different to that what we have in DCS right now.

No need of breaking during taxi, he only need a little bit of rudder input, even during the start. Full power and not many ruder needed.

As I thought the whole time, the Simulation is to many math and much to less reality!

After landing they can push full brakes and they never had a no nose down!

Brakes hold the plane at full power!

NO need to raise the tail during the start. The tail raises on its own.

He easily reached 650 kph with the D9. Without WEP.

I love it that german is my native language, so I know exactly what he did say not only the underlines. They "say" not all he was really saying.

This wing dropping we have in DCS he never noticed in RL so hard and so suddenly.

The propp effects in DCS seem to be a way overdone.

And many more!

I don't know why so many people think that flying, starting and landing is only right if it's super hard!?

And that physic is not for WWII birds and if the american birds have a bad behavior the germans birds must have the same!?

At the end there is many to do for the WWII planes to act more realistic.

 

Where did you find all these facts??? The translation was done by native Germans and pilots including the man who interviewed Erich, so all your statements are not more than your fantasy and imaginations how the plane must behave.

Full power he meant not more than 3250/1.45 ata if you understood right what kind of Dora he flew.

He easily reached 650 but he never said that it was in perfect horisontal flight.

The tail raises in DCS EXACTLY as Erich said and is written in D9 pilot's manual.

 

Wing dropped in RL in 190 violently and it was distinctive feature of this wing.

 

If German is your native langage, how could you misunderstood that the statement "no brakes, only rudder" was referenced to TAKE-OFF RUN, not to taxiing. And only for 190D because he explained how to use the right brake in 109.

[Derbysieger]

Nedum, do we actually play the same game? Have you flown the Dora lately? I can see a lot of the characteristics he describes in the DCS Dora.

 

First of all they didn't talk about taxiing they specifically talked about take off. And I don't need much rudder in the DCS Dora on take off and I've never touched the brakes during a take off run in that aircraft. Hell, if I use more than half right rudder the plane goes to the right even at very low speed.

In the Bf 109 it can be necessary to tap the brakes in addition to full rudder to keep it straight on the take off run under certain circumstances, same as he described.

 

Next, the tail wheel does come up on its own in the DCS D9 and I can pull up into a climb right after takeoff without a wing dropping.

 

Oh, and have you actually tried holding full power with full brakes? I hate to burst your little bubble there but it actually works. The DCS Dora as it is now can do this.

 

 

The way he described the plane falling straight out of the sky without dropping a wing on landing is pretty well modeled I feel.

 

The only thing I would maybe give you is the speed but even then they talked about landing there, and flying at 1.2ata during a descent will easily result in speeds around 650kph

 

All in all I got the opposite impression that you got, that DCS models the characteristics pretty much as he described. Obviously you can't simulate the physical sensations that a real aircraft will give you but apart from that I felt like his stories represented how the DCS aircraft works.

[msalama]

the Simulation is to many math and much to less reality!

A nice rant! I'll give it a 7. Would be a full 10 if you had even a _slightest_ whiff of a clue.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

My DCS DORA:

 

 

- requires only short ( travel ) brisk but effective, rudder inputs during takeoff;

- can give me as much as 650 on my initial descent to land, if I set ATA 1.2 or 1.1, depending on how much I push on the stick :-);

- raises the tail as I ease on the stick, after the initial takeoff run when I had it pulled for tailwheel lock;

 

From the many sources I read, the Fw190 had that insidious wing drop if you let it stall ( low speed or accelerated ), and toe brakes were actually the main turning control during taxi, plus the tail wheel locking by pulling the stick back.

Edited July 1, 2015 by jcomm

[Crumpp]

What a gentleman....Thank you Erich.

 

Beautiful Yak they were flying in the beginning, too.

 

Eagle Dynamic has to change the Dora campaign and add in a short field take off and landing mission based on Erich's experience!

 

:thumbup:

[HeadHunter52]

Nice interview. Interesting what he said about being surprised by the reaction to input of the sim plane.

 

The story about landing with his pal at the parents' village. Afterward, he went into that thoughtful look, downward. Seen many times in my interviews with WWII pilots. I asked a couple times.... and our boys told me they were thinking about how their friends died. In the war, or after. After all those years, their buddies are still missed. No different than us today.

 

I had opportunity to speak with a 109 pilot. He was a big man, much larger than I thought would fit into the plane. He said he didn't fight "for the party." He fought for Germany, to slow the Allied win in hopes a better peace could be sought. Much like Kreigsmarine captains. It was a good talk.

[void]

Its not a first interview with German pilots saying FW`s A or D variants were turning better than 109. I hope that would be noted by ED.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Nice interview. Interesting what he said about being surprised by the reaction to input of the sim plane.

 

Yo-Yo explained that in another thread. Erich was getting some unwanted aileron input due to the controller setup not having springs. He wasn't used to the feel is all.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I remember Yo-Yo, long ago by the time of the P51d release, once told us he even used the keyboard for controlling the aircraft.

 

It can certainly be done, provided you do not engage into complex maneuvers, but having a good controller setup is mandatory for any DCS module.

 

My new T16000M is giving me a great feel, and I regret never having been able to get an MSFFBV2 :-(

 

Just out of curiosity, what real ww2 aircraft are owned / operated by ED / The Fighter Collection ?

 

But, back to the topic, the controls of the Fw190 D9 in DCS really feel light, and I guess it's really meant to be that way because, as Eric also mentioned, the aircraft was very easy to maneuver.

Edited July 1, 2015 by jcomm

[NineLine]

What a gentleman....Thank you Erich.

 

Beautiful Yak they were flying in the beginning, too.

 

Eagle Dynamic has to change the Dora campaign and add in a short field take off and landing mission based on Erich's experience!

 

:thumbup:

 

I agree :)

[NineLine]

 

Just out of curiosity, what real ww2 aircraft are owned / operated by ED / The Fighter Collection ?

 

http://fighter-collection.com/cft/tfc-aircraft-directory/

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Whow! I didn't even guess that many !!!!

 

Ok, can we dream about having each of those modeled on day in DCS :-)

 

The "T6" would be one of my favorite :-)