Simulating Water.

[Apples]

When we have a carrier for the F-18 will we see a Pitching Deck, and water at this detail??

 

Rolling waves.

White Caps.

 

VBS 3 has a very good example.

 

6q-IuvATr5c

 

6gPQ5xv54LU

Edited October 15, 2015 by Apples

[rjetster1]

Definitely needed at some point… I’m sure they have taken note of possibilities a long time ago.

[John C Flett]

Here's hoping.

 

I think DCS already does rolling and pitching ships fine but it does need to have the sea state look like its changing with the weather. Even without carrier ops it just gives a better sense of what is going on in the world.

[159th_Falcon]

Rolling and Pitching deck is already in the sim depending on sea state.

Which in turn is dependent on weather conditions.

 

I don't expect the current visuals of the water to improve very much but i think there already rather good.

(talking 1.5)

[Apples]

I didn't notice any difference in 1.5.. Is it more Shinny?

[NRG-Vampire]

VBS 3 has a very good example.

 

but

the detail of the hornet pit

the flight model/behaviour of the landing/touchdown

the surface of the flight deck what looks concrete

are awful

[Brisse]

For a flight sim, I consider what we already have pretty good. What you see on the videos from VBS takes up a significant amount of compute power to achieve. Not worth having in a flight sim, where you can use that said compute power for other things that are more important. A pitching deck can easily be approximated just by having it follow a sinus curve with variable amplitude and frequency depending on the weather. It doesn't have to take the actual physical waves into account, because this isn't a ship simulator. We don't even need physical waves. A flat plane with some shader tricks will look convincing in most cases and doesn't require us to have supercomputers to run the sim.

[Apples]

but

the detail of the hornet pit

the flight model/behaviour of the landing/touchdown

the surface of the flight deck what looks concrete

are awful

 

 

I was only talking about the water!

[Apples]

For a flight sim, I consider what we already have pretty good. What you see on the videos from VBS takes up a significant amount of compute power to achieve. Not worth having in a flight sim, where you can use that said compute power for other things that are more important. A pitching deck can easily be approximated just by having it follow a sinus curve with variable amplitude and frequency depending on the weather. It doesn't have to take the actual physical waves into account, because this isn't a ship simulator. We don't even need physical waves. A flat plane with some shader tricks will look convincing in most cases and doesn't require us to have supercomputers to run the sim.

 

 

A Carrier will be a huge part of the sim when the F-18 is released don't you think?? Therefore people will be seeing a lot of water..

[NRG-Vampire]

I was only talking about the water!

 

of course the water looks awesome and real

[Beagle One]

For a flight sim, I consider what we already have pretty good. What you see on the videos from VBS takes up a significant amount of compute power to achieve. Not worth having in a flight sim, where you can use that said compute power for other things that are more important. A pitching deck can easily be approximated just by having it follow a sinus curve with variable amplitude and frequency depending on the weather. It doesn't have to take the actual physical waves into account, because this isn't a ship simulator. We don't even need physical waves. A flat plane with some shader tricks will look convincing in most cases and doesn't require us to have supercomputers to run the sim.

what a lame argument line....the same level of different sea states was already possible with the old IL-2 Sturmovik engine and silent hunter IV back in 2006/2007 and we could run it on 1ghz single core cpus and ATI HD-47xx series.

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by Beagle One

[Brisse]

what a lame argument line....the same level of different sea states was already possible with the old IL-2 Sturmovik engine and silent hunter IV back in 2006/2007 and we could run it on 1ghz single core cpus and ATI HD-47xx series.

 

 

You obviously didn't understand my comment. Different sea states are doable with the techniques I describe. You just have to use different sets of shaders for each sea state. It's ironic that you bring up IL-2 as an example, because it uses the same methods that I described. What you see in IL-2 is an entirely flat plane of water. The shaders are what creates an illusion of waves. The fact that you seem to think otherwise is pretty good proof that it's a good method. It clearly had you fooled, thinking that it was the real thing.

 

Silent Hunter IV is also similar but it adds an animated 3D mesh for the water surface, which is necessary in that particular game for obvious reasons. As far as I know, it's just a simple animation playing over and over again, and not an actual physical simulation of water.

 

Battlefield 4 is an example of a game where the water effects can be considered to be approaching actual physical simulation.

 

 

Notice the water 3d mesh interacts with objects moving through the water, and even waves interacting with other waves?

 

That is completely out of scope for something like DCS.

[vicx]

I don't care how it's done as long as ED can get the motion of ship and boats on the water to look more natural. It is the motion that looks a bit fake at the moment and the ships look a little like toys bobbing in bathwater. Perhaps the ship motion needs have some subtle lateral and sliding motion to make a more natural look.I do care about the motion more than photorealism.

[Harpoon]

but

the detail of the hornet pit

the flight model/behaviour of the landing/touchdown

the surface of the flight deck what looks concrete

are awful

 

You do understand that VBS is a combined arms simulator (bulit off of ARMA's engine), not a full fidelity flight simulator, right?

But I wish we could have something like that one day... :D

[Beagle One]

You obviously didn't understand my comment. Different sea states are doable with the techniques I describe. You just have to use different sets of shaders for each sea state. It's ironic that you bring up IL-2 as an example, because it uses the same methods that I described. What you see in IL-2 is an entirely flat plane of water. The shaders are what creates an illusion of waves. The fact that you seem to think otherwise is pretty good proof that it's a good method. It clearly had you fooled, thinking that it was the real thing.

 

Silent Hunter IV is also similar but it adds an animated 3D mesh for the water surface, which is necessary in that particular game for obvious reasons. As far as I know, it's just a simple animation playing over and over again, and not an actual physical simulation of water.

 

Battlefield 4 is an example of a game where the water effects can be considered to be approaching actual physical simulation.

 

 

Notice the water 3d mesh interacts with objects moving through the water, and even waves interacting with other waves?

 

That is completely out of scope for something like DCS.

The simple .ini tweak [Water=4] gave you 3D waves with white caps depending on weather in IL-2 from version 3.04 on wards. Togeher wirh the moving carrier decks the illsusion was prfect and that's all what is needed since Simulations are illusions anyway.

[Apples]

I went into the editor and cranked the wind way up. Loaded in the su-33 on the Kuznetsov. The deck was pitching like crazy, but there are no waves what so ever, And water looks like it has a gloss sprayed over it.

 

Even with Edge People still need super computers for some good graphics?

[Wynthorpe]

I really think water is what lets EDGE down, looks pretty much same as DCS always has.

[Simon1279]

VBS expecially VBS3 (which is nomore available to personal users to be purchased) is a simulator software for military training purpose and not a game for the public, you can't compare that software to a sim game for public entertainment purpose

[Beagle One]

VBS expecially VBS3 (which is nomore available to personal users to be purchased) is a simulator software for military training purpose and not a game for the public, you can't compare that software to a sim game for public entertainment purpose

You can, because ArmA III is using the same base engine and already comes close. And Waves definately affect the boats in ArmA III nd you do not need a super computer but just a decent gaming rig to run it. there is no magic involved, just NVidia PhysiX.
Edited October 16, 2015 by Beagle One

[FSKRipper]

You can, because ArmA III is using the same base engine and already comes close. And Waves definately affect the boats in ArmA III nd you do not need a super computer but just a decent gaming rig to run it. there is no magic involved, just NVidia PhysiX.

 

Yup, so bye bye AMD users? I suggest that you take a deeper look into Arma 3. One example, if you want to use advanced ballistics (and not the stock one) you will have to live with FPS breakdowns of up to 30%. Eye candy is much cheaper than simulating realism. Thats not my idea of a Flight sim. Sure, you can have everything like accumulating rain drops on the canopy, snow on your wings and reflecting water on the ground and even on your plane but you need no decent gaming rig but a high end one to make this happen.

In my opinion there are lots of other physical effects which should be done before even thinking of water movement.

Edited October 16, 2015 by FSKRipper

[Brisse]

You can, because ArmA III is using the same base engine and already comes close. And Waves definately affect the boats in ArmA III nd you do not need a super computer but just a decent gaming rig to run it. there is no magic involved, just NVidia PhysiX.

 

As someone who has over 1200 hours logged in Arma3, and has been modding the game, including boats and ships using PhysX, let me just tell you that software such as PhysX doesn't belong in DCS. PhysX is buggy, it's responsible for several types of crashes in Arma3, boat handling is not very realistic and it's a very frustrating and time consuming process to tweak the boat handling so that it even remotely resembles real life behaviour. Trying to implement something like that in DCS would just be a huge waste of the developers time, unless they plan to start making boat/ship modules, which I doubt.

[7rooper]

Physx can be implemented in DCS for convincing visual effects that not neccesarily affect gameplay or flight behaviour like smoke trails, more realistic explosions, wing flex, trees swinging, vapor on wings and plenty of particle effects. It would be a nice addition and the good thing is that is optional. If you don't have the horse power to run it just turn the godamn thing off

[Silver_Dragon]

The main problem of Physx has only compatible with NVidia. If ED make improvements of water some day, expected see a plugin outside of a type of manufacturer board.

 

Actually, the water animation has very poor. A video example recorded with dynamic weather (the sea has not been affected by the weather or wind), and the ships animations has very strangle.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

since LN are developing a water based map, I think ED will consider this as an option. But the 1.5 water details are far better than pre 1.5 IMHO. The sea really looks natural.

[7rooper]

I watched your video and it kinda looks nice but the ocen waves are big tiles and make look the ships as toys in a bathtub -as someone here said before.

Physx is the way to go. It has been actively developed and can run in the GPU freeing the processor that is needed for scripts and AI calculations in a complex simulation like DCS

The other option is Havok physics libraries but again this one relies heavily in the processor