A word to the community - Let's remember what connects us!

SkipperSMG · November 8, 2015

Dear Pilots,

this post is addressed to those who forgot the purpose of this forum.

We are here to communicate with the Devs and each other and not to incite

ourselfes because of some things that doesn't happen the way we would like them to do.

Sure, DCS has a hard time at the moment, though not surprising. The Developers turn the Sim, that gave us many hours of fun and joy, upside down to bring it to a whole new level to provide us with a much more intense expercience and (IMO) flaten the way to a magnificent future.

Although many are plagued by problems and with every Fix new are popping up, but let us use our energy to help where we can insted of being upset.

I have seen many gaming communities and only the fewest work as closly together with the Devs as the Simmers do. Let's hold on to it.

No matter what problems DCS will face, I am sure we will get a grip especially if WE, the community, do the best to help.

And a word to those waiting for some announcements: I feel with you,

I also can't wait to throw my money at the Devs but we will get information when the time is right. Let's give them the time they need. When they don't announce anything, there will be reasons why they do so.

I prefer to pay for a module which come from heart, where you can see a the first view, how much dedication and love for detailt was put into it then for one that is half-finished just because we were so impatient. Our tirades will only help that the developers end up losing their desire to develop for DCS.

I am sure that isn't what we want. We want planes, Helos and cool Stuff!

I'm sure it will come, just give it the time it needs.

These few words might give one a wrong picture of the overall

situation. They are just for those mentioned previously. In the last few weeks i read a lot of unjustified frustration and harsh comments which aren't necessary. Don't get me wrong. I think they need a bit of pressure to let them know we are excited but let us remain at a reasonable level.

Think for yourself, its just a kind reminder .

A caring stranger.

EDIT: Sorry for the format^^

MiG21bisFishbedL · November 8, 2015

hannibal · November 8, 2015

i am lucky to have any of the DCS products at its current state...

take away DCS, what is there else?

NOTHING.

in past i used to look at youtube videos of full fledge air force flight simulators, not possible to have at home, but DCS gives us that here on our own PCs.

A-10C alone is a feat of programming, i mean like i can never get my hands into such an aircraft but DCS makes it possible.

thanks Eagle Dynamics, Matt Wags and all the devs for even putting your passions to bring us what we already have and for whats to come..

vali_grad · November 8, 2015

yea its only a game, a pretty awesome one :)

There are some mean spirited fellas but this is the world we live in .

For me the forums look a bit all over the place, a lot of kids asking questions already answered in faqs and other posts, some old threads that belong to an archive .

I don't think its that hard to restrict acces for the lazy people that rant for no serious reason .

HeadHunter52 · November 8, 2015

Yessir! I get the whole delayed gratification and money-for-prerelease thing, BUT, it's a game.

RL is enough of a bitch without getting all tweaked about a GAME. These guys work for peanuts and have to produce to get paid. I dare any complainer to go do it yerseff. "But I paid money!" Yes, with an understanding of how things are in this part of the world.

I'd rather have a few issues, and wait a lil while for this and that AND still get to enjoy my game. I have few problems with how it plays, and just look at my rig! It's PEANUTs compared to most.

Perspective, gents. Keep yer focus on things that matter and enjoy yourselves. If you have to back of some of the tech while they iron it out, or revert to an earlier version, go for it. She'll be right soon enough.

rrohde · November 8, 2015

Not sure what prompted this post by OP? I believe all is well with DCS, and ED is on the right track. They built a new Dx11 graphics engine (EDGE) for us to enjoy and did that for free, and there is a lot of content in the pipeline.

Before the year is over, we should have DCS 2.0 with NTTR, as well as the RAZBAM Mirage 2000.

Strait of Hormus, and DCS WWII is also coming. All is good. :)

Ganesh · November 8, 2015

Dear Pilots,

Thank you for your words! :thumbup: +1

SkipperSMG · November 8, 2015

A word to the community - Let's remember what connects us!

Not sure what prompted this post by OP? I believe all is well with DCS, and ED is on the right track.

Read closely, i refer to the users, not ED

Dav IRL · November 8, 2015

Read closely, i refer to the users, not ED

Op is a hippy perhaps, only kidding! Dcs is the ultimate flight sim! Long live DCS!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Chief1942 · November 8, 2015

Valid points about the "forums" and their purpose. It is my view that the forums, with all their faults and sometimes abuse, are the best way of the community sending their feedback, positive or negative, to ED. In some cases, due to language differences, some are not as adept at communicating their thoughts as are others. Pretty clear we are a " Global" community, and sometimes the navigating the forums can be as difficult as the learning curve that comes with a new module. But for those few who can "step over the line", I feel the moderators do a great job of keeping on focus. Patience is not a natural trait, it has to be learned. Thanks ED and looking forward to continued development.

spaceraver · November 8, 2015

I see no problems with constructive feedback, but as Skipper so says: We are lucky to have it and not flop around in FSX with no combat. Development takes time, the features of the airframes we fly are set by the Developers, not the community, even though they listen to us. But with all the ranting in various threads about missing features. I wonder how developers put up with this kind of written abuse and keep forging on?

If they announce a feature, people want another feature. Nobody forces anybody to buy anything. You don't like it? Don't buy it. Just stop ranting and raving about what it SHOULD do instead of what it CAN do.

Ka-50 is an AG platform, but can kill air threats with the Vikr. Just learn to fly it good. I have seen it done first hand, but have yet to develop the skill needed to do so.

The Mig21 is a capable Tactical bomber, but was not meant to do AG missions as a primary role.

A10C vise versa.

Trying to kill a Fighter jet with a Helo is hard and should be..

There is no such thing as a level playing field.

SinusoidDelta · November 9, 2015

I see no problems with constructive feedback, but as Skipper so says: We are lucky to have it and not flop around in FSX with no combat. Development takes time, the features of the airframes we fly are set by the Developers, not the community, even though they listen to us. But with all the ranting in various threads about missing features. I wonder how developers put up with this kind of written abuse and keep forging on?
If they announce a feature, people want another feature. Nobody forces anybody to buy anything. You don't like it? Don't buy it. Just stop ranting and raving about what it SHOULD do instead of what it CAN do.
Ka-50 is an AG platform, but can kill air threats with the Vikr. Just learn to fly it good. I have seen it done first hand, but have yet to develop the skill needed to do so.
The Mig21 is a capable Tactical bomber, but was not meant to do AG missions as a primary role.
A10C vise versa.
Trying to kill a Fighter jet with a Helo is hard and should be..
There is no such thing as a level playing field.

There is a big disconnect between the community and the developers on what actually is modeled. The 'nuts and bolts' are a mystery to us. Often times the burden of proof is placed on the customer to prove their concern. I don't feel a paying customer should have to pour through technical papers, purchase flight manuals, export flight telemetry data, then plot the data to prove something in the FM is wrong. The customer also shouldn't need to write a journal article quality CFD analysis of missile performance, with verified references, to prove missile performance is inaccurate. Yet we do these things anyways, for the love of the game. That is a sim community and ED's most valuable asset.

StandingCow · November 9, 2015

I had started writing a similar post a few times but ended up just deleting it.

What sparked my concern was not only a few DCS devs having people leave due to the toxic members of the community, but another flight sim as well:

It seems some people forget that there are humans on the other side of the computer screen and don't know how to make civil helpful criticisms. Think it even goes so far as death threats for stupid stuff.

Anyways.... I spend a good majority of my free time flying in this sim, the devs have done an amazing job and the future has never looked brighter with edge and the airframes/carrier ops we have coming out.

msalama · November 9, 2015

to prove something in the FM is wrong.

Well nothing will change unless you prove it wrong, because there's nothing tangible _supporting_ the change if you don't.

danilop · November 9, 2015

So this thread is basically about why people behave like they have been behaving since the dawn of time? :D

Humans just do that, by their own nature - question everything, nag, misbehave for the sake of it, never satisfied ... and guess what? Some of that nagging actually change the World and push the civilization forward.

Like real life, ED forum is defined by clear set of rules and there is strict moderation in place, which to me look pretty effective.

Auto censorship is not needed really! Grow some skin! :)

Edited November 9, 2015 by danilop

Teetwo · November 9, 2015

Not sure what prompted this post by OP?

His need to feel like he has to tell others how to act.

Zimmerdylan · November 9, 2015

His need to feel like he has to tell others how to act.

I'm kind of thinking......this is what he was posting about...........

That being said: Myself, being a person who has behaved very poorly on this forum at one time or another cannot say enough good things about ED, the 3rd party developers, and the mods here. Having been permanently banned at some point, am very fortunate to have been allowed back here. And after writing a long apology letter to the people at EA for my unacceptable behavior, not asking to be unbanned at all, they lifted my ban. Hey........you can't beat that kind of professionalism.

I have seen some pretty terrible replies to perfectly innocent posts and questions here. But I have also seen the way these things are professionally handled and dealt with. You cannot ask for a better team of people to be around. Many other forums for games or products do not have the support that this forum has. You don't get your questions answered by developers and testers. So I really appreciate and value this forum. And am very glad to be a part of it.

DCS is the best sim out there and they do their best to address problems and issues. The forum itself is also a great source of information and knowledge about how to have the most fun and be the best you can with the planes.

So my hat goes off the ED, the developers, the mods, and people who give so much to those of us who can't offer a lot in the way of knowhow. More power to the OP for his words. I get it...........

Edited November 9, 2015 by Zimmerdylan

Ultra · November 10, 2015

His need to feel like he has to tell others how to act.

Did you really want to make you're first or second post a negative one? :glare:

I think some people just get too fired up sometimes. It happens in every type of entertainment. But it's almost never the majority of opinions so I don't think there's much of a problem.

SinusoidDelta · November 10, 2015

Well nothing will change unless you prove it wrong, because there's nothing tangible _supporting_ the change if you don't.

There is nothing tangible supporting the current state and accuracy either. After seeing so many bans, I'm hesitant to post any concerns I have.

StandingCow · November 10, 2015

There is nothing tangible supporting the current state and accuracy either. After seeing so many bans, I'm hesitant to post any concerns I have.

Ridiculous. As long as you are respectable in your post and don't come off like an absolute jackass you aren't going to be banned, and I am sure any mod/admin would agree with me.

Yurgon · November 10, 2015

Often times the burden of proof is placed on the customer to prove their concern. I don't feel a paying customer should have to pour through technical papers, purchase flight manuals, export flight telemetry data, then plot the data to prove something in the FM is wrong.

Being aware this is rather a side-issue... wait, what?!

Disclaimer, I'm not a flight model expert, and never claimed to be.

Then again, at times it feels like people believe they actually are experts on this or that topic, because what they witness in DCS contradicts what they read/heard/believe. And more often than not, they are dead wrong.

I mean, how many threads do we have around here that have the term "bug" in the title, with the poster admitting right away that he isn't sure about it - but it's labeled "bug" regardless...

My overall opinion is that more often than not people don't know what they think they do, and they confuse assumption with knowledge.

Thus, I think it is only fair to expect us (forum members) to provide as much proof as possible when we say this or that part of the sim is wrong. After all, we do expect testers and developers to read our comments, and if we're wrong, we just wasted their time. The more proof we can provide, the easier it is to verify our claims.

Finally, the fact that we're paying customers doesn't make us subject matter experts.

TL;DR: I think it's only fair to expect that we provide positive proof instead of expecting the testers and devs to disprove our assumptions.

MiG21bisFishbedL · November 10, 2015

There is a big disconnect between the community and the developers on what actually is modeled. The 'nuts and bolts' are a mystery to us. Often times the burden of proof is placed on the customer to prove their concern. I don't feel a paying customer should have to pour through technical papers, purchase flight manuals, export flight telemetry data, then plot the data to prove something in the FM is wrong. The customer also shouldn't need to write a journal article quality CFD analysis of missile performance, with verified references, to prove missile performance is inaccurate. Yet we do these things anyways, for the love of the game. That is a sim community and ED's most valuable asset.

Aerodynamics is, obviously, science. This means you can prove claims.

The common terms that so many have become accustomed to due to the popularity of games like Ace Combat lack depth at times. It can be a complex science and, if you want claims to be proven, you should be prepared to do the necessary legwork. We have a cabal of dedicated nerds that will buy modules early on and release their opinions on them. If you feel the product on offer isn't up to your own standards, then don't buy it. It's why I've yet to touch VEAO's Hawk. Why put yourself into a position where you feel that you, as a paying customer, might be slighted or at disadvantage when you can avoid that all together and not buy in.

That's just the nature of the beast.

And, I was pretty brutal toward Leatherneck in the build up towards the release of MiG-21. Yet to be banned. Cobra even commented on it. Ad hominems are going to garner the attention of the mods, everywhere you go that isn't an image board.

Edited November 10, 2015 by MiG21bisFishbedL

msalama · November 10, 2015

There is nothing tangible supporting the current state and accuracy either.

And? If you're concerned about the accuracy, you'll have to present evidence supporting your concerns if you want to get heard. This just _is_ how these things work, you know?

After seeing so many bans, I'm hesitant to post any concerns I have.

You shouldn't be. If you present your concerns in a mature and coherent way, I'm 100% certain no-one will ban you.

SinusoidDelta · November 10, 2015

I didn't mean to cause such a stir with my post. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have said anything.

SinusoidDelta · November 10, 2015

This thread is turned into exactly what is set out not to be.

Your post is needlessly condescending. You know nothing about my education or background. I have spent hundreds of hours exporting and analyzing telemetry in an attempt to validate FM performance. I have read hundreds of journal articles, NASA papers, DTIC papers, and every TO manual I can get my hands on. Yet there is no doubt in your mind that I'm not well read and I don't want to bother with all that science nonsense based of one post that you disagree with.

Aerodynamics is, obviously, science. This means you can prove claims.

The common terms that so many have become accustomed to due to the popularity of games like Ace Combat lack depth at times. It can be a complex science and, if you want claims to be proven, you should be prepared to do the necessary legwork. We have a cabal of dedicated nerds that will buy modules early on and release their opinions on them. If you feel the product on offer isn't up to your own standards, then don't buy it. It's why I've yet to touch VEAO's Hawk. Why put yourself into a position where you feel that you, as a paying customer, might be slighted or at disadvantage when you can avoid that all together and not buy in.

That's just the nature of the beast.

And, I was pretty brutal toward Leatherneck in the build up towards the release of MiG-21. Yet to be banned. Cobra even commented on it. Ad hominems are going to garner the attention of the mods, everywhere you go that isn't an image board.

Edited November 11, 2015 by SinusoidDelta

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