F-15C - How to apply brakes without going off the runway?

[dotChuckles]

Practice at Area 51. I've never seen a runway that long before!

 

Isn't the long runway that was built for the A-12 out of use now (yellow Xs along it)?

[IASGATG]

Touch down at any speed you like, hold the "W" button, wait for aircraft to stop. Having landed F-15's at like 350kts, I feel like you just don't have the break button bound.

[DerekSpeare]

I have come to the conclusion that the simulation is deficient in it's modelling of rudder sensitivity and damping in the landing roll above 50 knots. It is quite unrealistic in that regard.

No amount of tweaking of the axis curves can fix it.

I think it needs changes to the flight model which are beyond the user's reach.

 

See this topic.....

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151735

 

So coaxing it into stopping is the solution, then, seeing as there are aspects of the plane which may not be modeled properly. :joystick: :pilotfly:

[OnlyforDCS]

Yes Ive had some very strange landing accidents due to very high rudder authority in 2.0, however this did happen at speeds above 100knots, and the F15 rudders do have authority in this region so I only blame myself. At 100knots and below i don't apply the rudders at all, due to NWS in the F15C being very sensitive, so I simply use differential braking to keep the plane rolling in and slowing down in a more or less straight line. It works pretty well for me.

[AussieGhost789]

Not sure if this has been covered previously in the thread, so forgive me if it has been. Use AoA to set your speed on final. Aim for 10 degrees AoA (so it will say 20 in your cockpit because it shows cockpit units which is +10). Once you've touched down, pop the airbrake and hold the nose at around 13 degree's on the pitch ladder (AoA should read 23 cockpit units) until you reach 90 knots, then let the nose down gently and get on the brakes. The manual specifies 90 knots, but I just aim for somewhere between 100 and 90, so I don't slam the nose down too hard.

[JINX_1391]

Once you've touched down, pop the airbrake and hold the nose at around 13 degree's on the pitch ladder (AoA should read 23 cockpit units) until you reach 90 knots

 

Sorry if this is way off...but during aero-braking isn't the airbrake almost useless? Wouldn't the airflow around the aircraft bypass the airbrake altogether because of the angle of the aircraft?

 

Flow.pdf

 

Please don't be discouraged about the intense graphics and technical nature...but this is what I am thinking.

[smsm2000]

[ame]

[/ame]

[pr1malr8ge]

Sorry if this is way off...but during aero-braking isn't the airbrake almost useless? Wouldn't the airflow around the aircraft bypass the airbrake altogether because of the angle of the aircraft?

 

[ATTACH]129853[/ATTACH]

 

Please don't be discouraged about the intense graphics and technical nature...but this is what I am thinking.

 

For the most part yes, the airbrake is not much of a contributing factor during aero-braking. How ever it will work to a small degree vs not having it out. Regardless it wont "HURT" anything having it extended unless you need to do a "extreamly late" touch N go and you forget you have it deployed

[AussieGhost789]

For the most part yes, the airbrake is not much of a contributing factor during aero-braking. How ever it will work to a small degree vs not having it out. Regardless it wont "HURT" anything having it extended unless you need to do a "extreamly late" touch N go and you forget you have it deployed

 

This and once you stop aero-braking and bring the nose down it will contribute.

[twobells]

I'm also having great trouble keeping the F15 straight on take-off which is unusual as I have absolutely no problems with my pedals on any other module.

 

I've set the Saitek axis settings the same as Speedbirds, however, I still have serious problems.

[riproren]

On take off, the F15 wants to pull a little left. Try applying just a bit of right rudder.

[Mad Dog 7.62]

Hi All,

I have a button bound to "Wheel Brakes On" and I press and hold it or cycle it. I also tried binding buttons to both the left and right brakes but get the same thing. Is there something I can do?

 

Brakes work much better in DCS if they are bound to an axis. I use the rotary next to the right throttle on the TM Warthog.

 

MD

[mytai01]

It definitely helps to keep the stick back about halfway during takeoff and landing roll!

[Xenovia]

i just hold the W button down for 1.5 seconds, and let it go, rinse and repeat until you come to a stop, or a slow enough speed to where you can taxi without flipping your plane over

[fitness88]

It just doesn't seem realistic to have these horrors of landing and taking-off, for me it ruins my enjoyment of the F-15... that it should be so difficult.

[HiJack]

Land with flaps but after touchdown you can raise the flaps to have more effect of the aero-braking, you raise the air-brake on touchdown also. It is then easy to hold AOA 23 all the way down to 90 knots. Then lower nose and use wheel break in short pushes down to 50 knots if needed, many times wheel breaks is not needed at all.

[HiJack]

Well, believe it or not, it is. Also referred in the F-15 real doc.

 

EDIT: Landing procedures for wet and slippery surfaces (like ice).

Edited September 27, 2016 by HiJack

[fitness88]

I don't have any problems even when using full continuous braking immediately after touch down.

I've changed back from using pedals to a twistgrip joystick a long time ago because IMO life size pedals without the motion feedback of a real plane quite often result in serious overcontrolling.

 

Pedals where you keep the heels on the floor are much better suited for small precise inputs than the ones where the whole foot rests on the pedal, IRL and in the sim!

 

IRL it's exactly the same. On a certain airliner I flew we used to have the heels on the floor and suddenly it procedure to have the feet completely on the pedals.

The reason was that you are a bit faster if you have to apply brakes immediately, but directional control is much more difficult with this method.

Pushing the drift off during the flare was a nightmare during the first crosswind landings with this 'new' method.

 

The CG on the F-15 is really high and this coupled with the narrow track width and rather short wheelbase makes the F-15 more difficult to control on ground than many other planes.

 

Short and very small rudder inputs are the key in the DCS F-15 to maintain the centerline during take off and landing.

 

Thanks interesting read.

[sea2sky]

not a problem for NATO airfields with their perfect surface finish. For the Russian ones you better switch to flying tank (Su-25) or flanker to enjoy your landings :)

[GGTharos]

No, you don't. You simply accept more maintenance issues with your aircraft given the lack of maintenance of the airfield.

[fitness88]

Regarding crosswind affect and landing gear damage on the F-15 :

Well it seems from what I've been reading here that the flight modelling for the F-15 regarding take-off and landing is closer to real world and not inaccurate flight modelling...good to know.

I'll have to pay more attention to landing weight, and vertical velocity at touch down...and keeping the plane straight on the runway.

[mytai01]

The issue of excessive crosswind may be why people have a hard time staying on the runway. If there is no wind, then you need to develop your skills. Learn finesse. That's what I was told when I tried to do a loop in a real Marine F-4S simulator at K-bay. The damn thing would not go over the top. The pedal shaker went crazy instead!

Edited September 29, 2016 by mytai01

[fitness88]

The issue of excessive crosswind may be why people have a hard time staying on the runway. If there is no wind, then you need to develop your skills. Learn finesse. That's what I was told when I tried to do a loop in a real Marine F-4S simulator at K-bay. The damn thing would not go over the top. The pedal shaker went crazy instead!

 

The F-15 with no crosswind doesn't give problems on T/O or landing. Just need to watch landing weight, and vertical velocity at touch down. I've done several successful landing and T/O with no crosswind but once you have the crosswind...be very careful!

[MikeMikeJuliet]

Hold the phone, everyone.I want to get one thing straight just in case anyone thinks this the wrong way.

 

Aerobraking is not the way to stop the aircraft the fastest. I understand we are talking more about lateral controls and running off the side of the runway, but if the problem ever is running long, then aerobraking will get you in trouble.

 

Aerodynamic braking is done to limit wear and tear on the brakes. If you are critical with runway length, make a sturdy landing with the lowest possible weight and immediately after the nosewheel is down , apply brakes firmly.

 

Now on the control side of things. If you use rudder pedals, drop your heels on the floor and control your direction with slight differential braking. If that doesn't help, apply a small amount of rudder and HOLD it for a little while. Key is not to chase the runway centerline, but to stop the deviation, and carefully correct your position. When you see this starting to happen, adjust pedals accordingly. Small error, small correction. If you let the error grow, your correction will cause trouble.

 

On the landing speeds, on the top of my head a proper final approach speed is somewhere around 150-170 knots typically. Key is to keep the AOA at 22 degrees, and the runway threshold on 3 degrees below the horizon with the FPM over it. Adjust pitch and thrust to maintainthese values. If you find your approach speed to be closer or over 200 knots, you are either too heavy, or you are holding too small AOA.

 

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

[MikeMikeJuliet]

...And on the point of crosswind. Fighters are not designed for strong crosswinds typically. Civil aircraft may, in many cases land at stronger crosswinds than a fighter jet, so no point in trying 30kt crosswind components.