AV-8B Harrier Thread

[crow0827]

The AV-8B can only carry 1 maverick per pylon and only pylons 2, 3, 5, and 6 are enabled to carry them. So at most you can carry 4.

 

There are missile type limitation based on aircraft type:

 

Day Attack can only use AGM-65E (laser)

Night Attack and Radar can use all AGM-65 types (laser, IR and CCCD).

 

Day Attack can only use 2 sensors for targeting.

Night Attack can use 4 sensors, and

Radar can use 3 sensors.

 

In many respects the Night Attack is the best Air-to-Ground platform of the AV-8B series.

 

Plz teach me what is the "4 sensors" and "3 sensors".

[Vitormouraa]

Plz teach me what is the "4 sensors" and "3 sensors".

 

I guess sensors in this case would be the Targeting Pod (TGP), Mavericks (IIR, CCD ones) etc.

[.Tigre.]

I guess sensors in this case would be the Targeting Pod (TGP), Mavericks (IIR, CCD ones) etc.

 

 

So by deduction the systems are virtually the same as those mounted on the A-10C, is it correct?

 

 

:thumbup:

[Zeus67]

The following onboard sensors are available:

 

- DMT (Video): (DA and NA only)

- DMT (laser tracker): (DA and NA only)

- Radar: (Radar only)

- INS : (All aircraft)

- Missile seeker: (All aircraft)

 

DA can only use the AGM-65E (laser).

NA and Radar can use all types.

 

The TGP is not used as a direct target selector. It can be used indirectly as a laser designator so that either the missile seeker, for the E, or the DMT (for Laser/IR/CCD missiles in the NA) track the spot and locks the missile to the target.

 

DMT and radar are the primary target acquisition and designation sensors.

INS can be used as a secondary target designation sensor.

[.Tigre.]

The following onboard sensors are available:

 

- DMT (Video): (DA and NA only)

- DMT (laser tracker): (DA and NA only)

- Radar: (Radar only)

- INS : (All aircraft)

- Missile seeker: (All aircraft)

 

DA can only use the AGM-65E (laser).

NA and Radar can use all types.

 

The TGP is not used as a direct target selector. It can be used indirectly as a laser designator so that either the missile seeker, for the E, or the DMT (for Laser/IR/CCD missiles in the NA) track the spot and locks the missile to the target.

 

DMT and radar are the primary target acquisition and designation sensors.

INS can be used as a secondary target designation sensor.

 

 

Thank you very much for the information :thumbup:

 

So from what I understand the systems discourse works differently than the A-10C...

 

 

:pilotfly:

Edited June 15, 2017 by Falcoblu

[Zeus67]

Thank you very much for the information :thumbup:

 

So from what I understand the systems discourse works differently than the A-10C...

 

 

:pilotfly:

 

It is a more modern aircraft than the A-10C with better sensors, even the radar less versions.

[iLOVEwindmills]

When you say the 'tgp is not used as a direct target designator', what do you mean exactly? Does that mean it can't automatically produce a targeting solution for LGBs or JDAM like it works in the A10C?

[.Tigre.]

It is a more modern aircraft than the A-10C with better sensors, even the radar less versions.

 

 

I understand, it is more modern and consequently the systems implemented, good...

 

 

Thanks :thumbup:

[Sport]

When you say the 'tgp is not used as a direct target designator', what do you mean exactly? Does that mean it can't automatically produce a targeting solution for LGBs or JDAM like it works in the A10C?

 

I think it means the on-board weapons computer can derive targeting info from information sent to it from the TGP, but the TGP cannot send targeting info directly to the weapons.

[shagrat]

When you say the 'tgp is not used as a direct target designator', what do you mean exactly? Does that mean it can't automatically produce a targeting solution for LGBs or JDAM like it works in the A10C?

He Most likely means: (...)"It can be used indirectly as a laser designator so that either the missile seeker, for the E, or the DMT (for Laser/IR/CCD missiles in the NA) track the spot and locks the missile to the target."(...)

 

So you can search and track targets with the TGP. Then lase them and the onboard DMT or an attached AGM-65E seekerhead can lock onto your TGP's laser.

The DMT can track the laser designation and use it to lock other missiles to it. Most likely other AGM-65 variants... Like slewing in the A-10C.

If the pylons are capable of transferring coordinates to a JDAM it is likely the DMT as well, that gives the coordinates?

 

Edit: and of course the LGBs don't need anything else, then a laser designation from the TGP... They fly towards a coded laser reflection, no matter what is designating, a TGP a JTAC or anything else capable of lasing a target.

Edited June 15, 2017 by shagrat

[Zeus67]

When you say the 'tgp is not used as a direct target designator', what do you mean exactly? Does that mean it can't automatically produce a targeting solution for LGBs or JDAM like it works in the A10C?

 

For AGM-65s, the TGP is not capable of interacting directly with the missile. So the only way for it to work is by indirect means.

 

In this case, you use the TGP's laser to designate the target and either the DMT laser tracker or the missile seeker (if it is an E) will lock the missile to it.

[Flagrum]

Do we carry JDAMs? If yes, how can we designate a target for them - if that is possible (literally) on the fly? TGP: aquire target + lase it, DMT lock on laser spot, calculate coordinates, send to JDAM? That can not be that complicated, can it?

Edited June 15, 2017 by Flagrum

[Zeus67]

Do we carry JDAMs? If yes, how can we designate a target for them - if that is possible (literally) on the fly? TGP: aquire target + lase it, DMT lock on laser spot, calculate coordinates, send to JDAM? That can not be that complicated, can it?

 

No, it is not and that is quite likely how it works.

As a bonus, the DMT does not require a laser to designate a target and it can use the INS/GPS to calculate target position coordinates for the JDAM.

 

The laser helps, a lot, but is not required at all.

[iLOVEwindmills]

He Most likely means: (...)"It can be used indirectly as a laser designator so that either the missile seeker, for the E, or the DMT (for Laser/IR/CCD missiles in the NA) track the spot and locks the missile to the target."(...)

 

So you can search and track targets with the TGP. Then lase them and the onboard DMT or an attached AGM-65E seekerhead can lock onto your TGP's laser.

The DMT can track the laser designation and use it to lock other missiles to it. Most likely other AGM-65 variants... Like slewing in the A-10C.

If the pylons are capable of transferring coordinates to a JDAM it is likely the DMT as well, that gives the coordinates?

 

Edit: and of course the LGBs don't need anything else, then a laser designation from the TGP... They fly towards a coded laser reflection, no matter what is designating, a TGP a JTAC or anything else capable of lasing a target.

 

Right but you still need the coordinates to actually tell the CCRP when to release the bomb in order to get it close to the laser aimpoint.

 

But I take it this post was specifically related to Maverick targeting, not for LGBs and JDAM.

[Zeus67]

Right but you still need the coordinates to actually tell the CCRP when to release the bomb in order to get it close to the laser aimpoint.

 

But I take it this post was specifically related to Maverick targeting, not for LGBs and JDAM.

 

With the DMT laser tracker locked to the spot (designated by anybody) release conditions are easily calculated. Since both the DMT and the bomb are locked on the same spot, the aircraft knows what the bomb is looking at.

 

For unguided bombs, you can even "sweeten the spot" by moving the DMT's TDC to the best position. Basically designating an offset from the laser spot position.

 

The DMT is what makes the Night Attack the best bombing platform of all the AV-8Bs.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Zeus67

[Evilducky]

I hate you guys soo much.... I wasn't planning on getting anymore aircraft until 2.5 came out. Your updates on this has made me more exited for this than the hornet. This is most likely going to be as instant buy for me.

[AG-51_Razor]

What Evilducky said....except I don't really hate you guys. That is such a strong word. It's more like Razbam is the neighborhood crack dealer and I am hopelessly addicted to their products! :megalol:

[Airj247]

Can't agree more, instant buy!

[iLOVEwindmills]

With the DMT laser tracker locked to the spot (designated by anybody) release conditions are easily calculated. Since both the DMT and the bomb are locked on the same spot, the aircraft knows what the bomb is looking at.

 

For unguided bombs, you can even "sweeten the spot" by moving the DMT's TDC to the best position. Basically designating an offset from the laser spot position.

 

The DMT is what makes the Night Attack the best bombing platform of all the AV-8Bs.

 

So basically the TGP designates, and the NA figures out the coordinates by detecting the laser spot with the DMT rather than feeding the data directly? Are there any limits in terms of angles and distance (altitude) from which it can do this?

 

Does it use the same process to designate targets for JDAM with the TGP?

[T_A]

So weapons will works different from A10C?

no TGP SPI designate as target for weapon on the fly?

[.Tigre.]

So weapons will works different from A10C?

no TGP SPI designate as target for weapon on the fly?

 

 

Yes , apparently it works differently than the Warthog ....

 

 

:pilotfly:

[Dudikoff]

So basically the TGP designates, and the NA figures out the coordinates by detecting the laser spot with the DMT rather than feeding the data directly? Are there any limits in terms of angles and distance (altitude) from which it can do this?

 

Yes, there certainly are gimbal limits and I presume they are much more limited than those on a TGP, so little wonder the radar AV-8B+ dumped the DMT altogether (and went with the TGP only which I presume is fully integrated with the WCS).

 

This report is also not really praising the initial variant's sensor capabilities (not the NA as it's an older document):

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1988/DFS.htm

 

It is a more modern aircraft than the A-10C with better sensors, even the radar less versions.

 

In many respects the Night Attack is the best Air-to-Ground platform of the AV-8B series.

 

I don't know much about the AV-8B systems, so can you please explain in more detail what systems exactly make these older Harriers more modern than the A-10C and with better sensors (DMT?) than the Hog's Litening TGP?

 

And what makes the NA a better A2G platform than the AV-8B+ (which can carry Litening II TGP like the NA, but I presume it's fully integrated with the WCS as there's no DMT anymore)?

 

Because, logically I'd expect the radar should allow the Plus variant the A2G capabilities even in adverse weather conditions (where the IR and the laser capabilities are limited) plus the fully integrated TGP should be superior to a tacked-on one on the NA which then just slaves these older systems to the designated target (if within their limited gimbals).

 

Unless of course you were referring to baseline variant capabilities (i.e. before the TGP's were added later on)?

Edited June 15, 2017 by Dudikoff

[near_blind]

Any reasons why the AGM-65D is being used? I've never found any evidence the USMC (or Navy for that matter), ever purchased any Maverick variant other than the E and F.

[Zeus67]

Any reasons why the AGM-65D is being used? I've never found any evidence the USMC (or Navy for that matter), ever purchased any Maverick variant other than the E and F.

 

Because DCS does not have the F. We will have to make our own but for now it will use the D.

[Kev2go]

Yes, there certainly are gimbal limits and I presume they are much more limited than those on a TGP, so little wonder the radar AV-8B+ dumped the DMT altogether (and went with the TGP only which I presume is fully integrated with the WCS).

 

This report is also not really praising the initial variant's sensor capabilities (not the NA as it's an older document):

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1988/DFS.htm

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know much about the AV-8B systems, so can you please explain in more detail what systems exactly make these older Harriers more modern than the A-10C and with better sensors (DMT?) than the Hog's Litening TGP?

 

And what makes the NA a better A2G platform than the AV-8B+ (which can carry Litening II TGP like the NA, but I presume it's fully integrated with the WCS as there's no DMT anymore)?

 

Because, logically I'd expect the radar should allow the Plus variant the A2G capabilities even in adverse weather conditions (where the IR and the laser capabilities are limited) plus the fully integrated TGP should be superior to a tacked-on one on the NA which then just slaves these older systems to the designated target (if within their limited gimbals).

 

Unless of course you were referring to baseline variant capabilities (i.e. before the TGP's were added later on)?

 

 

 

i too would want to know what sensors are more modern than the A10C exactly. The A10C suite 3.1 is from around 2006-07. Whislt the Harrier here, it was stated a few pages ago they were using a 2001 Natops manual.

It certainly shouldn't be the Countermeasures and missle warning related systems because according to This they say the A10C has the best CM system of any 4th generation era fleet.

 

http://media.jrn.com/documents/A-10C_Capes_Nov_13.pdf

 

 

Im no harrier expert but the only thing better at lest on the surface related to ground strike combat capabilities on the Av8B NA harrier seems to be the SEAD missiles, otherwise they seem comparable in what they can do.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Kev2go