AV-8B Harrier Thread

[Backy 51]

Bring it on! I am ready for this! Zeus, is the debut of a preliminary manual way off still? Is there any literature out there that you can recommend for us to start learning this bird?

 

 

 

Check your PM and you're welcome ...

[Manzanita]

Can the Harrier lay down mark points like the A-10?

[Raven68]

Check your PM and you're welcome ...

 

Send again.

[Tango Lima]

Can the Harrier lay down mark points like the A-10?

 

This what the real Harrier can do. Take a look into the real manual.

 

Numbers are

 

A1-AV8BB-TAC-000

 

A1-AV8BB-TAC-050

 

AV-8B-000

 

A1-AV8BB-NFM-400

 

AV-8B-410

 

A1-AV8BB-NFM-000

 

If you really be a serious pilot then you must read the real documents.

 

One of my old instructors told me always READ THE ****ING MANUAL.

 

I response Sir I always read the Manual first, then he says are you ready for the test.

 

I Say any time any place.

 

Regards

Tango Lima/Scorpion

Edited June 1, 2017 by Thomas Loeffelmann

[Tirak]

I would imagine this question has been asked and answered in the past but a quick search didn't reveal anything..

 

Why does Razbam opt for the AV-8B Harrier II Night Attack variant, what is preventing them from making the Harrier II Plus? Will they ever consider upgrading their module with a Plus?

 

This question has been asked and answered many times. Upgrade your searching.

 

Long story short, RAZBAM is waiting on ED's ground radar code.

[shagrat]

This question has been asked and answered many times. Upgrade your searching.

 

Long story short, RAZBAM is waiting on ED's ground radar code.

More like they found they could get more data and information on the AV-8B N/A than the Harrier. If they get the necessary details and data later, they possibly consider a Harrier, I guess.

[Tirak]

More like they found they could get more data and I on the AV-8B N/A than the Harrier. If they get the necessary details and data later, they possibly consider a Harrier, I guess.

 

That's the reason why we're getting the AV-8B instead of the GR.7. it has been explicitly stated multiple times that they cannot do the + until ED releases their ground radar code.

[shagrat]

Hm, what I read came down to certain performance charts, wind tunnel data and systems details being available for the AV-8B, but not the Harrier, but you are possibly right as the Viggen and even the community A-4E has the same issue with ground radar... :dunno:

[Gunny Highway]

Exactly.

 

 

 

 

that even with that in mind the NAvy still regularily supports the USMC for A2G even if they do have both the harrier and F18. Similarly whilst technically the F18's operated by the USMC are intended for ground support the Navy can and has requested USMC aviation assets to bolster their operations. The USMC whilst technically an autonomous service is still overseen by Department of the Navy and still reliant on them. Because the Navy has no dedicated AS ( or stealth aircraft yet) certain situations would make them rely on the USAF to provide CAP assistance with Eagles and/or Raptors.

 

Look man, I don't know where you are getting your doctrine information, and dont take this the wrong way, but you are talking out of your ass. Marines support Marines.The MAGTF is fully capable of hooking and jabbing any where in the world at any time, as the tip of the spear. 'MERICA!!!!

 

Heres some light reading so that you may understand how the worlds most deadly fighting force operates.

 

https://www.clausewitz.com/readings/mcdp1.pdf

 

http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCWP%203-2%20Aviation%20Operations.pdf

[Esac_mirmidon]

Put stripes and bars below here...........

[AG-51_Razor]

ROTFLMAO!! Kev2go, you were probably OK until you slipped this in: "The USMC whilst technically an autonomous service is still overseen by Department of the Navy and still reliant on them." There's nuthin that gets a Marine spun up more than reminding them that they actually belong to the Navy!

[Backy 51]

Send again.

 

 

 

Sent. You ready to start flying again?

[Kev2go]

Look man, I don't know where you are getting your doctrine information, and dont take this the wrong way, but you are talking out of your ass. Marines support Marines.The MAGTF is fully capable of hooking and jabbing any where in the world at any time, as the tip of the spear. 'MERICA!!!!

 

Heres some light reading so that you may understand how the worlds most deadly fighting force operates.

 

https://www.clausewitz.com/readings/mcdp1.pdf

 

http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCWP%203-2%20Aviation%20Operations.pdf

 

I fully understand how the marines work, but ultimately you would know if you read some history, as part of combined arms force they are still be called upon the navy or other branches of the military to be involved in supporting overall larger operation or campaign that may not always involve supporting MAGTAF. I was not denying that was thier primary role, but its not strictly the case as the reality is, especially with examples shown in history.

 

If i can even pull up humble ol wiki tp prove my case in point quickly:

 

 

"In 1985, VMFA-314 transferred to Carrier Air Wing 13 (CVW-13), and embarked on board the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) for duty with the U.S. Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean Sea. They participated in Freedom of Navigation operations in the vicinity of Libya and took part in combat operations in support of Operation El Dorado Canyon in the Gulf of Sidra and in Libya."

 

 

On January 16, 1991, Operation Desert Shield shifted to Operation Desert Storm. The squadron flew over 1,500 hours and 814 combat sorties, more sorties than any other Navy or Marine Corps squadron. Missions flown during the war included Escort, SEAD, Mig Sweep, and Strike. They returned from the Middle East in March 1991 without the loss of a single squadron member or aircraft."

 

"On 16 June 2016, AV-8B II+ Harriers of the 13th MEU flying off the USS Boxer began airstrikes against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria the first time the U.S. Navy has used ship-based aircraft from both the Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf at the same time during Operation Inherent Resolve[113] (aircraft from the USS Harry S. Truman began airstrikes on IS targets from the Mediterranean on 3 June)"

 

 

those missions examples ( hint: bolded for TLDR types) are Not related to CAS or directly supporting Marine ground units.

 

could go back evne further in history going back to ww2 and see that marine squadrons flew a2a missions against Japanese zeroes as well with various aircraft like the f4f , f6f and F4U

 

 

 

as the tip of the spear. 'MERICA!!!!

 

 

Again not always the case.

 

 

For us involvement over north Africa or in Italy, that was entirely a US armies show when it came to the ground aspect of things . During 1944 , Operation overlord, over Normandy; It was the US army ( specifically the paratroopers that were first in prior the beach landings) that were the tip of the spear. The US armed forces along with other Allies, Stormed the beaches and established a so Foothold before pushing further inland. yes in these cases the USMC was busy in the pacific, very much had a cenrtal role over there, However and not available for the Traditional role in Europe or North Africa, but even in the Pacific given the scale of the operations in many Cases US army units had to perform amphibious assault primarily on thier own ( IE Philippines, New guinea ) alongside the marines in certain instances. USMC alone was not enough to take on the entirety Japanese forces even as just shock troops for securing the initial beachheads

 

in Afghanistan in 2001, when operations began it was the CIA and Various Special Operations forces from the US Army ( Delta force, green berets ) as well as the US NAvy's SEALS that were the first in, and the Tip of the spear, before Marines and other US army ground forces moved in later on.

 

Again don't see the point of this pissing contest. At the end all of the aforementioned military branches are part of the US armed forces have some overlapping functions, but overall have their specific definedroles, but still part of the same team and thus its in thier interest to be cooperating together for greater effect in a modern day which cooperative combined arms warfare is central.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Kev2go

[Gunny Highway]

Nobody is arguing that Marines aren't attached to other units. If you would read the documents I gave you, you would see that detaching elements from the ACE is normal business and part of their mission. The point here is that the MAGTF, whether it be a MEF, MEB, or MEU, can operate in the full spectrum of warfare independently and effectively. CAP, CAS, or moving ASS. In other words, they don't need someone else to accomplish their mission. Would it be good to have the Chair Force handle the air-to-air aspect? Absolutely. Is it necessary? Nope. You stated the Navy regularly supported Marines with CAS and that the Air Force would be necessary to provide CAP. Even without F18's, the Harriers with AIM120's can provide air to air capability, coupled with the Marine LAAD units. That was the whole reason I posted what I did. Now look, some of what I said is in jest (hard to do any of this without navy ships), but the point remains. To truly understand how the Corps works, you need to understand its mission and capabilities.

 

And I don't need to check history boss, I've lived it.

[Kev2go]

Nobody is arguing that Marines aren't attached to other units. If you would read the documents I gave you, you would see that detaching elements from the ACE is normal business and part of their mission. The point here is that the MAGTF, whether it be a MEF, MEB, or MEU, can operate in the full spectrum of warfare independently and effectively. CAP, CAS, or moving ASS. In other words, they don't need someone else to accomplish their mission. Would it be good to have the Chair Force handle the air-to-air aspect? Absolutely. Is it necessary? Nope. You stated the Navy regularly supported Marines with CAS and that the Air Force would be necessary to provide CAP. Even without F18's, the Harriers with AIM120's can provide air to air capability, coupled with the Marine LAAD units. That was the whole reason I posted what I did. Now look, some of what I said is in jest (hard to do any of this without navy ships), but the point remains. To truly understand how the Corps works, you need to understand its mission and capabilities.

 

 

I never stated they are incapable of running the missions,, but rather can, and would end up having where applicable for greater effectiveness. even in gulf war one against a adversary with older tech, and where dominance was held in #s it was US air force that ran the show with CAP and Air superiority with their F15 eagles. Even the navy was pissed they got the front row seats, and the F-14 tomcats didn't get as much action for that role.

 

However USMC Hornet fleets from 2000s to relativelt recently there has very much been a capability gap, where half of thier fighter fighter fleets could fly, and even thosewere barely airworthy because USMC skipped out on a hornet MLU or adopting any Super BUgs. until the C++ program a few years ago, so yea the USMC was lucky there was no significant conventional conflict, otherwise the USN would have needed to pick up the slack to avoid having Marine aviators die in flying coffins.

 

 

Even without F18's, the Harriers with AIM120's can provide air to air capability,

 

 

the radar equipped, and aim120 capable harriers are essentially 21st centruy. and even at that the harrier is not as effective a a2a platform as a proper Multirole fighter design like the Hornet or Super Hornet. Especially with 4th generation beginning refered to legacy era tech, in light of the 5th generation F35, F35 capabilites far outclass those of both those platforms, USMC will certainly have a fine and high tech aircraft to fill both roles, and still have VTOL capabilities. In any case f18 and harrier in 2017 all seem well and good because they havent fought a near pear or peer to peer foe. Against Modern Sukhois or Flankers theyd have tough time. its unhealthy to think that despite current trends, thatall wars will forever be against insurgents which cant fight back or against tin pot dictators "banana republics" with dated cold war arsenals.

 

But not as effective given th

 

 

And I don't need to check history boss, I've lived it

 

 

so you discovered the holy grail then? if you were able to partake & live through all of US combat operations from the 20th century - present? :D

Edited June 2, 2017 by Kev2go

[Gunny Highway]

LOL, the Corps isn't the spearhead because the CIA. LMFAO. Again read the MCDP. Expeditionary Force in Readiness

 

 

And I'll just drop this nugget for you since you mentioned Normandy/CIA:

 

Prior-to, during, and after the landings, Marines assigned to the Office of Strategic Services (OSS)–the predecessor to the Central Intelligence Agency–planned and led sabotage and resistance operations with the French underground against the occupying Germans. On D-Day, Marines helped pave the way for British and American pathfinders and paratroopers who dropped behind enemy lines. Additionally, a handful of Marine Corps observers were attached to Army landing forces.

 

Obviously they didn't storm the Normandy beach, they may have been occupied hopping islands.

 

I'll keep whipping it out if yall get a long enough measuring stick.

 

Anyways, I'm sure these will get deleted/moved soon. It was fun though!

Edited June 2, 2017 by Gunny Highway

[Kev2go]

LOL, the Corps isn't the spearhead because the CIA. LMFAO. Again read the MCDP. Expeditionary Force in Readiness

 

 

And I'll just drop this nugget for you since you mentioned Normandy/CIA:

 

Prior-to, during, and after the landings, Marines assigned to the Office of Strategic Services (OSS)–the predecessor to the Central Intelligence Agency–planned and led sabotage and resistance operations with the French underground against the occupying Germans. On D-Day, Marines helped pave the way for British and American pathfinders and paratroopers who dropped behind enemy lines. Additionally, a handful of Marine Corps observers were attached to Army landing forces.

 

Obviously they didn't storm the Normandy beach, they may have been occupied hopping islands.

 

I'll keep whipping it out if yall get a long enough measuring stick.

 

Anyways, I'm sure these will get deleted/moved soon. It was fun though!

 

 

Again read post again. Simply they are not Spearhead in all given instances. I never said the CIA does the USMCS job. ANd if you read prior post not all island campaigns were spearheaded by USMC ( New guinea, and Philippines were US army Shows) Yes {acifc was thier central theatre but there simply were not enough Marines to take be the Next US army and take on all of Tojo's finest on thier own.

 

yes i know the marines would love to think they saved the day in every single operation( even the ones they were not present at or barely had influence on)

 

just because some of the members of OSS were USMC does not make them tip of the spear over the US army in that instance.

 

OSS army officers had already been operating with the french resistance. ala Jedburgh teams.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Kev2go

[Dehuman]

ROTFLMAO!! Kev2go, you were probably OK until you slipped this in: "The USMC whilst technically an autonomous service is still overseen by Department of the Navy and still reliant on them." There's nuthin that gets a Marine spun up more than reminding them that they actually belong to the Navy!

 

Heh, I remember a long time ago watching John Stewart interviewing a marine and he asks "Isn't the marine corp technically a division of the navy?" To which the marine calmly replied,

"Yeah, it's the mens division." :lol:

[AG-51_Razor]

Heh, I remember a long time ago watching John Stewart interviewing a marine and he asks "Isn't the marine corp technically a division of the navy?" To which the marine calmly replied,

"Yeah, it's the mens division." :lol:

 

 

LMFAO!!! I don't care who you are, THAT'S FUNNY!!

[Raven68]

Funny indeed!! It has been said that to fly the Harrier it takes a Marine. That's what sets them apart from the other branches. :)

[Kev2go]

Funny indeed!! It has been said that to fly the Harrier it takes a Marine. That's what sets them apart from the other branches. :)

 

except maybe the Uk where the Royal navy fleet air arm flies those.

[joey45]

except maybe the Uk where the Royal navy fleet air arm and the Royal Air Force flew those.

 

Edited it for you.....

[Kev2go]

Edited it for you.....

 

oh right.... budget cuts, premature retirement :doh:

[drPhibes]

except maybe the Uk where the Royal navy fleet air arm flies those.

 

And the Italian, Spanish, Thai and Indian navies.

[Kev2go]

And the Italian, Spanish, Thai and Indian navies.

 

:thumbup: