[REPORTED] Model Visibility Issues

[OnlyforDCS]

SeaWolf, don't know if you've tried it. But turning Anti-Aliasing off has made a little bit of a difference for me. The planes still blend into the ground, and over water, but it's slightly less prononced than it was before. Also spotting at a distance seems to work a little better.

 

It's definitely not an ideal solution, but whatever helps until ED releases some fixes...

 

:)

[SeaW0lf]

It's definitely not an ideal solution, but whatever helps until ED releases some fixes... :)

 

Cool, I'll try that next time :thumbup: And I agree, we really need all the help we can get... But the planes are a beauty. I'm really starting to enjoy it.

[msalama]

I don't know, but the latest openbeta _may_ have improved the object visibility a bit. I flew a mission last night where I spotted a Hind flying against a bright patch of sky a good 7-8 NM away. The bugger was just a small dot, but clearly visible regardless :thumbup:

[imacken]

Glad I came across this thread as I thought it was just my eyesight!

I am running DCS @ 2560x1440 and find it almost impossible to spot bandits over about 1.2 miles. Even when I know there should be a dot, I just can't see any. The first hint of anything being there is usually when I hear their bullets ripping through my plane!

It has got to the stage that I load missions into Mission Editor and switch on labels (for those that don't allow it). Then, I try to keep labels off, but switch them on when I am in difficulties - which is most of the time!

Of course, this doesn't help in Multiplayer, but still.

I've tried lowering the resolution, and switching off anti aliasing, but that doesn't make much difference.

I've also tried out the eagle eyes of my 19 year old son, and he has the same issue, so it can't be down to my ageing eyes!

[David OC]

Imacken,

 

Use this mod with labels turned on for now when playing offline, it allows you to see enemy/friendly aircraft as a dot at a realistic range

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/270020/

 

Edit: Basically it changes the normal labels you see to just a dot ' at distance.

Edited April 26, 2017 by David OC

[imacken]

Imacken,

 

Use this mod with labels turned on for now when playing offline, it allows you to see enemy/friendly aircraft as a dot at a realistic range

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/270020/

 

Edit: Basically it changes the normal labels you see to just a dot ' at distance.

 

That's really useful, thanks.

I tried it out, and it does help a lot. However, it would be nice if that was the default 'labels off' view, so that at times it was still possible to see the full labels.

How easy would it be to modify that file to show the full ground target labels, but leave aircraft as is?

[*Rage*]

Somwthing changed a few months ago I think and the visibility became marginally better. Still way off but better. As far as I remember it was unannounced.

 

An idea when this further improvement will hit the release/OB? Does it improve long distance or close in spotting?

[David OC]

That's really useful, thanks.

I tried it out, and it does help a lot. However, it would be nice if that was the default 'labels off' view, so that at times it was still possible to see the full labels.

How easy would it be to modify that file to show the full ground target labels, but leave aircraft as is?

 

Yep, you can mod this to your liking for ground and air, change colors etc! Did you backup you original file?

 

I have may labels.lua file in this location, so it wont get update over by DCS updates

 

C:\Users\David\Saved Games\DCS\Config\View\Labels.lua

 

This is the ground format of the mod file you downloaded.

 

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[5000] = ""

GroundFormat[10000] = ""

GroundFormat[20000] = ""

 

It will show nothing for ground units, because nothing between the " "

 

 

This is the ground format of the standard DCS file.

 

GroundFormat = {

--[distance] = {format , alignment,color_blending_k,opacity,shift_pixels_x,shift_in_pixels_y}

[5000] = {"{%N%n%D%n%P","LeftBottom"},

[10000] = {"~%n%D" ,"LeftBottom"},

[20000] = {"`" ,"LeftBottom"},

}

 

The text at the top of the file tells you what the letters do and show in game.

 

-- Label text format symbols

-- %N - name of object

-- %D - distance to object

-- %P - pilot name

-- %n - new line

-- %% - symbol '%'

-- %x, where x is not NDPn% - symbol 'x'

-- %C - extended info for vehicle's and ship's weapon systems

 

Just paste back in what you need.

Have fun

 

EDIT Open and save these files in note pad ONLY or better yet download Notepad++ for proper nice looking code formatting

Edited April 26, 2017 by David OC

[OnlyforDCS]

Today I flew two sorties for about an hour altogether, on the burning skies server. I caught sight of tracer fire on a number of occasion, even quite close, (3-5 miles) but no enemy or friendly planes in sight when I dived in to investigate. So strange. It felt like everyone was flying pretty near to each other, yet no one could see each other.

 

I hope it was a server glitch or something...

Edited April 26, 2017 by OnlyforDCS

[captain_dalan]

Is there a noticeable difference between 1.5 and 2.0 (visibility wise)?

[chihirobelmo]

I don't know, but the latest openbeta _may_ have improved the object visibility a bit. I flew a mission last night where I spotted a Hind flying against a bright patch of sky a good 7-8 NM away. The bugger was just a small dot, but clearly visible regardless :thumbup:

 

It was so from before. Finding dots 7-8NM away is easy if planes are at the bright part of the sky.

 

 

This was captured before the latest update.

Edited April 27, 2017 by chihirobelmo

[klem]

Imacken,

 

Use this mod with labels turned on for now when playing offline, it allows you to see enemy/friendly aircraft as a dot at a realistic range

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/270020/

 

Edit: Basically it changes the normal labels you see to just a dot ' at distance.

 

Is this the Burning Skies mod (LShft + F10)?

[PeaceSells]

From what I see [or don't see -- pun intended :)], a fix for close quarters rendering / spotting is much more important than dots and such. At least we need to see the enemy once we engage in a close turn fight.

 

You are spot on.

[imacken]

Imacken,

 

Use this mod with labels turned on for now when playing offline, it allows you to see enemy/friendly aircraft as a dot at a realistic range

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/270020/

 

Edit: Basically it changes the normal labels you see to just a dot ' at distance.

Although this is very useful, it is limited to situations where labels are permitted. What we need is something that makes the whole visibility issue improved without labels. I know hundreds of people will already have said that, but...

Still requires missions to be edited in ME to allow Labels and then be resaved.

[philstyle]

Is this the Burning Skies mod (LShft + F10)?

 

I'm not sure Klem. I've had a play with the mod, and cannot replicate what I see on burning skies. What it does is, it replaces the normal "labels" with a character or set of the host's choice.

 

The mod linked above allows you to superimpose/ tag one of the characters form your keyboard over aircraft, ground units or missiles. By default the character seems to appear underneath (i.e vertically below on your monitor) of the object. So, if you use the "." symbol, it will appear considerably lower than the object because it also adds the empty space in the character above the DOT but below the text line.

 

A way to avoid this separation is to use the ' symbol. However, when rendered on screen this symbol looks too much like a keyboard character, as it renders a vertical line beneath the object.

 

If B-Skies is using this mode, I think they use the "%" symbol, and they grey it out a bit, because a fully black "%" looks idiotic.

 

The mod is a compromise, but it's a bad one - for the reasons above AND because the labels are visible through cloud!

Do you remember CloD has these issues when it first came out, until TF fixed it. The problem is clearly common to flight sims. It seems so odd to me that developers keep making the same mistakes over and over....

 

ED need to address this, now that they are moving outside of just a jet-v-jet environment.

Edited April 27, 2017 by philstyle

[philstyle]

If ED can fix this view problem well, update the damage model and just as important, use there magic on the netcode for epic online ww2 battles. .

 

 

 

Agree. These are DCS WW2's main handicapps as I see them.

- Damage modelling

- Netcode

- Aircraft and ground unit Visibility

 

 

Down the line, I'd like to see Dedi-server support and a more intuitive and flexible mission building/ scripting system (for Storm of War type servers in CS)...

[NineLine]

Agree. These are DCS WW2's main handicapps as I see them.

- Damage modelling IN PROGRESS

- Netcode IN PROGRESS

- Aircraft and ground unit Visibility IN PROGRESS

 

 

Down the line, I'd like to see Dedi-server support (PLANNED) and a more intuitive and flexible mission building/ scripting system (ALWAYS IMPROVING) (for Storm of War type servers in CS)...

 

See edits.

[SeaW0lf]

spotting, and maintaining a visual lock on the target is much better.

 

I have a doubt. When you say that, do you mean visual lock on dots and LOD at long distance? Or does that include close combat / over terrain as well? Because I have been playing online for a few weeks and I have notice that spotting enemies in close combat seems to be a gray area in the discussion. Forgive me if I have missed clear mentions to close range rendering.

 

 

For the thread and people in general, IMHO multiplayer is rendered unplayable (as a competitive space) without those info tags / labels (don't know how to call them because there are labels online without the info tags). As OnlyforDCS mentioned, I have seen tracers coming out of invisible planes, planes that merge with the terrain and so on. I have observed that you have a good chance to disengage simply going to the deck and grazing the terrain.

 

Yesterday I noticed that people are flying near the ground to spot enemies above the horizon line (when they become visible). It might be coincidence, but I flew an hour without seeing much, and I was not that high. My P-51D was not even con-trailing. Then I went to the deck and I started to see a lot of action with planes coming back and forward in between targets near the deck (the server had some 30 players). In one instance I crossed two Germans in formation, who jumped at me, and I simply grazed the ground and headed home -- I looked back and they continued to circle the area, looking for me. The other day I dove on some tracers that were coming off an invisible plane. I kept on diving because I wanted to observe the rendering layer. Near the ground I saw a thin layer of a plane, almost as the Predator camouflage (the movie). I pulled back but I was already too low and I crashed. Today I was following a friendly Spit at low altitude, but at one point he dove to graze the ground. I could follow his shape just in the dive, but he merged with the ground and disappeared in front of my eyes. I could not find him afterwards. And even against the sky, the planes profile is to gray, shadowy.

 

And this has been my experience in multiplayer. Broken / disconnected sequences of combats and people strangely adapting to the environment / engine. I wonder if these things are being addressed or if they are only working on dots.

Edited April 28, 2017 by SeaW0lf

[Boris]

I can confirm what SeaW0lf is saying.

 

It's not really the dots in the distance that are so much of a problem. I don't have much of a problem spotting these.

 

It's when the dot changes to the 3D model, where planes often magically disappear against the background. Oftentimes against a clear sky.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Boris

[philstyle]

See edits.

 

 

 

Good news.

So long as ED recognise the customer demand, and see the benefit in continual improvement, that's a good start from a client's perspective.

 

 

There's two horses in the WW2 aircraft combat simulation race at the moment. For a while (say, two years ago) both horses were looking pretty lame. But the competition has really heated up recently...

[OnlyforDCS]

I can confirm what SeaW0lf is saying.

 

It's not really the dots in the distance that are so much of a problem. I don't have much of a problem spotting these.

 

It's when the dot changes to the 3D model, where plans often magically disappear against the background. Oftentimes against a clear sky.

 

From what I've seen, the dots are fairly easy to spot but only on large screens running at their default resolution (or lower) and using 2x AA. With a medium sized screen at 1080p, the dots are only visible at a certain distance and then only against the sky.

 

Also most WWII servers use the Labels Mod, and that makes things a lot easer to spot at distance (once you get used to it). It also helps with dissapearing models, as you get the dot to fall back on. Also when using the labels mod, no AA is recommended.

 

Unfortunately when the labels go off, it becomes a guessing game again except for the people with really large screens relative to their resolution.

 

The disappearing planes is an even worse problem. Im keeping my fingers crossed that we see some of that progress that Sith mentioned in Normandy. Or at least as soon as we get to the merge.

Edited April 28, 2017 by OnlyforDCS

[imacken]

From what I've seen, the dots are fairly easy to spot but only on large screens running at their default resolution (or lower) and using 2x AA. With a medium sized screen at 1080p, the dots are only visible at a certain distance and then only against the sky.

 

I run DCS on a 27" monitor @ 1440p res with 2x AA and I can't ever see any dots without the labels mod.

[OnlyforDCS]

I run DCS on a 27" monitor @ 1440p res with 2x AA and I can't ever see any dots without the labels mod.

 

Im in the same boat Imacken. So I can feel your pain. My eyesight is not 100% (wearing glasses), and Im using a crappy Samsung LED @1080p. With the labels mod I've almost gotten "good" at spotting (LOL) Without it Im useless.

[klem]

Im in the same boat Imacken. So I can feel your pain. My eyesight is not 100% (wearing glasses), and Im using a crappy Samsung LED @1080p. With the labels mod I've almost gotten "good" at spotting (LOL) Without it Im useless.

 

Well, wearing VDU-range glasses should bring us to the same level as anyone else as the dots are there physically on our monitors about 70cm away. The problem continues to be both dot and model rendering until the models are well within visual range and 'inside' that phantom range where the models first render but are invisible.

 

Good news is SiThSpAwN's reply to Philstyle above - "IN PROGRESS".

 

But yes, the monitor itself can be a problem. I have three AOC e2752vq monitors, much-lauded on release, which are very poor at showing individual pixels. I just hope the "IN PROGRESS" work helps that.

[SeaW0lf]

You are spot on.

 

I can confirm what SeaW0lf is saying (...) It's when the dot changes to the 3D model, where planes often magically disappear against the background. Oftentimes against a clear sky.

 

Unfortunately when the labels go off, it becomes a guessing game.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys. A part of me imagined that the problem could have been in my system, but I have two other simulators and I have no problem spotting planes, so it is not my monitor or my adjustment. Something seems to be off in the rendering. Or the layer transparency (?) is overdone.

 

Is this thread related? Was it fixed? Because I see planes disappear over terrain all the time at close distance, many times in turn fighting.

Edited April 28, 2017 by SeaW0lf