A2A reefeulling difficulties

[Zeus67]

Hi...

 

FPM and the energy carets?

 

What is this?

 

The FPM or Flight Path Maker is the -0- that you see in the HUD. It shows where the aircraft is flying to.

 

The energy carets are the > < chevrons. They indicate the aircraft's forward acceleration, thus the aircraft's energy. When the chevrons are above the FPM, the aircraft is accelerating. When they are below the FPM, the aircraft is decelerating thus losing speed and energy. When they are aligned with the FPM, the aircraft is at constant speed.

 

But please, read the manual.

[westr]

Keep with it (everybody struggling). When I first tried it I thought it was impossible. I'm gradually improving. I'm now taking on a full tank of fuel. Although I'm disconnecting/reconnecting 5-6 times to do it. Maintaining the correct speed once connected I'm fininding tricky but I am gradually improving with that as well. It takes a lot of practice. :)

[ac5]

Hi Zeus67,

 

Now, that is a proper answer, thanks.

 

And in the meantime I have also found the manual somewhere.

Until now I had only that other - excellent- reduced one.

Would it be so difficult for you developers to just pop it into the

DCS site > Downloads, along with the templates... ?

[PiedDroit]

Hi Zeus67,

 

Now, that is a proper answer, thanks.

 

And in the meantime I have also found the manual somewhere.

Until now I had only that other - excellent- reduced one.

Would it be so difficult for you developers to just pop it into the

DCS site > Downloads, along with the templates... ?

Hello, manual can be found on your local DCS install folder:

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\M-2000C\Doc\DCS M-2000C Flight Manual EN.pdf

I personaly prefer that they hold putting online the manual as it is not finished and it frees time for more bug squashing ;)

 

BTW, here is a small track (for 1.5.3 release), one of my attempts to AA refuel (first tracks were corrupted because of the use of airbrake, I replayed this one at x2 speed and no problem). You can check the amplitude of movements of the FPM and energy carets, it's really small and controlled. It's not perfect yet but I'm happy of the result so for far, as westr said, keep trying it will come eventually. There is one long gulp at the beginning, 2 quick contacts in the middle (I retreat and retry because of bad position) then one last gulp at the end.

I think I'm too close to the tanker and that's why I disconnect in the middle, hard to tell...

 

Edit: go back to normal speed before the end of the first contact, until first separation finishes, as the track glitches during the disconnect, don't worry it doesn't last long :music_whistling:

M-2000C refuel 9.trk

Edited March 4, 2016 by PiedDroit

[ac5]

Hi PiedDroit, thanks!

[iborg]

I did my first successful refueling yesterday, using the uploaded mission. I can confirm the importance of controller settings : you need to make fine, precise attitude adjustments and therefore need maximum accuracy in the center. Hence 0 dead zone and 0 curve. Then I could do precise adjustments without over correcting.

[YoYo]

I did my first successful refueling yesterday, using the uploaded mission. I can confirm the importance of controller settings : you need to make fine, precise attitude adjustments and therefore need maximum accuracy in the center. Hence 0 dead zone and 0 curve. Then I could do precise adjustments without over correcting.

 

Crg

Yep, "0" curves is a big trick for this!

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2696005&postcount=35

[Doum76]

If anyone still having problems with speed adjustement for the Tanker, i finaly got back with AAR after a few weeks, 430 KTS in mission editor gives about 304 KTS in Sim, which is the lowest the tanker went adjusting it's speed when i made it too slow in ME, at 300 kts+ he doesn't adjust speed anymore, so far minimum 430 KTS in Mission Editor seems the loest speed to set it, so far it's perfect, i just made this Vid, my first AAR with a steady Tanker, i thought it was bugged until i found this thread last night, now all perfect, thanks for Zeus and others guyes on this thread for heads up :))) AAR is so neat, but in the M-2000c, even more :) Thumbs up for all the team!

 

[clanitho]

If anyone still having problems with speed adjustement for the Tanker, i finaly got back with AAR after a few weeks, 430 KTS in mission editor gives about 304 KTS in Sim, which is the lowest the tanker went adjusting it's speed when i made it too slow in ME, at 300 kts+ he doesn't adjust speed anymore, so far minimum 430 KTS in Mission Editor seems the loest speed to set it, so far it's perfect, i just made this Vid, my first AAR with a steady Tanker, i thought it was bugged until i found this thread last night, now all perfect, thanks for Zeus and others guyes on this thread for heads up :))) AAR is so neat, but in the M-2000c, even more :) Thumbs up for all the team!

 

 

Nice vidéo :thumbup:, could you post this mission?

[mr_mojo97]

I'm much better at it now - still wobble a bit. I do think VR helps a lot. I still get PIO's but not as much once I relax and flow and breathe normally and think about what I'm doing - once I start getting agitated I mess up all the time. I fly the Mirage pretty much exclusively as it's so nice to fly. I do go back to the A-10C every now and then but still can't refuel properly with that now!

[westr]

I personally found the trick for me was ensuring I had enough curve inputted in my Y/Pitch axis.

This is particularly important for drogue and probe. If you have a very sensitive pitch it makes it very very difficult with the mirage. I use a long extension on a TM warthog stick and I still needed a decent curve to make controls comfortable. The beauty of the Mirage is that when in air combat you can flick that A/A switch on and the jet becomes nice and nimble. Then you can flick it to A/G mode and its perfect for In-flight refueling :)

[jojo]

The beauty of the Mirage is that when in air combat you can flick that A/A switch on and the jet becomes nice and nimble. Then you can flick it to A/G mode and its perfect for In-flight refueling :)

 

Switching FBW to CHARGES is real procedure for air to air refueling :thumbup:

[gavagai]

But does the tanker still randomly speed up and slow down when you try to refuel? I did succeed with it once, but I wasn't sure if it was worth the trouble when the tanker wouldn't keep a constant airspeed.

[protea1]

How about some air refuelling missions Anyone?

 

Can some great mission maker not create some great training missions AA refuelling?

cheers in advance!:joystick:

[Rlaxoxo]

Can some great mission maker not create some great training missions AA refuelling?

cheers in advance!:joystick:

 

It's not that hard slap a Tanker set him some waypoints slap a Mirage and start the mission

[Britchot]

I followed Pickinthatbanjo's YouTube video and then put an airplane with two waypoints behind it at the same altitude. I would post the mission but I'm at work and it can certainly be done in minutes.

 

 

If anyone still having problems with speed adjustement for the Tanker, i finaly got back with AAR after a few weeks, 430 KTS in mission editor gives about 304 KTS in Sim, which is the lowest the tanker went adjusting it's speed when i made it too slow in ME, at 300 kts+ he doesn't adjust speed anymore, so far minimum 430 KTS in Mission Editor seems the loest speed to set it, so far it's perfect...

 

By the way, this advice was the best! Setup with an IL-78M at 22,000' MSL and 430kts GS and I was able to top off a clean M2K from 2100l on one connection.

 

 

Oh, I'd love to put this a/c in DCS as an American variant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-78

Operators:

 

United States

One former Ukrainian aircraft was imported in to the United States with an aim to operate the aircraft for contracted refuelling to United States military by various companies, by 2012 the aircraft was registered to the Bank of Utah.[17][18]

Edited September 13, 2016 by Britchot

[The Legman]

Bumping to not start a new thread.

 

I have noticed that the tanker accelerating and speeding up has gotten much worse since last update.

 

I can refuel the A-10C without problems so i know how to. It is not because of the boom or canister, is because the KC-135 doesn't run like crazy when i am doing it on the Hog.

 

But with the Mirage when i ask for refueling he slows down, when i am ready to precontact, starts speeding up. If i get close but don't manage to refuel and break away a little, he brakes like crazy and i have crashed myself a couple of times already on it. And when i am ready to precontact, starts running away.

 

Both S-3B and Il-78M. It's really difficult.

 

Edit: And putting FL220 and 430 kt on the editor seems like a strange way to circumvent a bug, because on public servers you will have to specifically do it on purpose.

 

It doesnt work for me he slows down anyways and goes down to FL170 and then accelerates.

Edited November 19, 2016 by The Legman

[clanitho]

Bumping to not start a new thread.

 

I have noticed that the tanker accelerating and speeding up has gotten much worse since last update.

I can refuel the A-10C without problems so i know how to. It is not because of the boom or canister, is because the KC-135 doesn't run like crazy when i am doing it on the Hog.

 

But with the Mirage when i ask for refueling he slows down, when i am ready to precontact, starts speeding up. If i get close but don't manage to refuel and break away a little, he brakes like crazy and i have crashed myself a couple of times already on it. And when i am ready to precontact, starts running away.

 

Both S-3B and Il-78M. It's really difficult.

 

And putting FL220 and 430 kt on the editor seems like a strange way to circumvent a bug, because on public servers you will have to specifically do it on purpose.

 

yes , it's an old problem and it occure only with the M2000 , Razbam please correct this problem.

[The Legman]

It's most likely an ED bug but it only happens with the Mirage.

[NevSmith]

I also can confirm this A2A refueliing issue. Just a humble request for correcting this bug.

 

cheers to all of you

[clanitho]

It's most likely an ED bug but it only happens with the Mirage.

 

OK, so Razbam must ask ED to correct this problem asap.

[Doum76]

Bumping to not start a new thread.

 

I have noticed that the tanker accelerating and speeding up has gotten much worse since last update.

 

I can refuel the A-10C without problems so i know how to. It is not because of the boom or canister, is because the KC-135 doesn't run like crazy when i am doing it on the Hog.

 

But with the Mirage when i ask for refueling he slows down, when i am ready to precontact, starts speeding up. If i get close but don't manage to refuel and break away a little, he brakes like crazy and i have crashed myself a couple of times already on it. And when i am ready to precontact, starts running away.

 

Both S-3B and Il-78M. It's really difficult.

 

Edit: And putting FL220 and 430 kt on the editor seems like a strange way to circumvent a bug, because on public servers you will have to specifically do it on purpose.

 

It doesnt work for me he slows down anyways and goes down to FL170 and then accelerates.

 

 

 

Setting your tanker in the ME to 430 kts ends up in the mission at 305 IAS or close to, it ain't a bug, the reason why the tanker changes it's speed is simple, the min speed the M2k can A2A refuel is 300 kts, so if you set up the tanker with a speed lower than that, the tanker will accelerate to match the M2K min air refueling speed, once you'Re done, it will resume it's speed set up in the ME. In other words, you need to set the tanker at 300 IAS, not sure the speed represented in the ME, Ground Speed i presume, but it is 430 kts that gives in game about 305 kts, you get no poblem with the A-10c because it refuels way slower than the M2K. And make sure when you set yur tanker's speed, that it doesn't get 430 kts to only way points, but also and more important than all, 430 kts in the Advanced Waypoint Option orbiting option.

[jojo]

You can use this site to convert TAS to CAS depending on altitude.

http://www.hochwarth.com/misc/AviationCalculator.html

 

Enter 300kt in CAS, set pressure altitude and convert. Enter TAS in ME as Tanker speed.

[gospadin]

You can use this site to convert TAS to CAS depending on altitude.

http://www.hochwarth.com/misc/AviationCalculator.html

 

Enter 300kt in CAS, set pressure altitude and convert. Enter TAS in ME as Tanker speed.

 

Yup.

 

The 350 KCAS at FL250 optimal refueling speed equates to a KTAS of roughly 525 knots

[The Legman]

Advanced Waypoint Option orbiting option.

 

This did it :thumbup: