BigBANGtheory Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I am still struggling to see how the "laser pointer" analogy would work in practice with an interactive cockpit. Are you suggesting you point your head at the cockpit control guiding a pointer then map a HOTAS switch to change its setting? Until Oculus integrates hand tracking I think you're going to need external hand tracking like the Manus Machina Data Gloves for either VR system. That would work inside the cockpit too seeing the pilots hands on the stick and throttle most of the time but then tacking to the other controls as guided by the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWillis Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I am still struggling to see how the "laser pointer" analogy would work in practice with an interactive cockpit. Are you suggesting you point your head at the cockpit control guiding a pointer then map a HOTAS switch to change its setting? Until Oculus integrates hand tracking I think you're going to need external hand tracking like the Manus Machina Data Gloves for either VR system. That would work inside the cockpit too seeing the pilots hands on the stick and throttle most of the time but then tacking to the other controls as guided by the player. What exactly is the problem with using a mouse to manipulate the laser pointer? You don't need to see it to use it, and it has several buttons and a wheel to manipulate the controls within the virtual cockpit. Add to that the use of voice activated commands, and you can easily control the most complex simulation - it is just a matter of configuration. The laser pointer method will solve the 3 dimensional issue nicely as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elo001 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Any performance improvements for VR planned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduro14 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I hope the performance issues are solved for release. As it is now the engine doesn't function well in VR or 3dvision for that matter. Good to hear from the Devs at least to silence some of the speculations in these forums. Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansangb Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I am still struggling to see how the "laser pointer" analogy would work in practice with an interactive cockpit. Are you suggesting you point your head at the cockpit control guiding a pointer then map a HOTAS switch to change its setting? Until Oculus integrates hand tracking I think you're going to need external hand tracking like the Manus Machina Data Gloves for either VR system. That would work inside the cockpit too seeing the pilots hands on the stick and throttle most of the time but then tacking to the other controls as guided by the player. That's how it works today. When you move the mouse, you get a yellow cross/cursor. When you move your head, the cursor moves as well. So you can just look at the control you want to "touch" and off you go. hsb HW Spec in Spoiler --- i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansangb Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Digital, That's what I'm talking about. You can move the mouse, or you can move the mouse cursor just by looking at a switch. Either or works. The "look, then click" is quite intuitive, actually. hsb HW Spec in Spoiler --- i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansangb Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Holy cow that's probably the solution, hadn't thought of that. All you need is to program a momentary toggle switch like the pair on the TM Warthog HOTAS to mouse click, look at the switch you want and operate the toggle switch. That's everything right there, feedback and tracking without wearing gloves. If you could create a universal switch, universal rotary encoder, and universal push/button, you could activate whatever cockpit function you wanted. Not possible today, though, because each physical toggle gets mapped to a unique function. Hmmm, interesting. hsb HW Spec in Spoiler --- i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Wags, are you the only one who tested the Rift so far? Cause I'm very curious how DCS performs using Rift on i7-2600k and GTX 960 4GB (my current specs), bow many fps does one get with these specs? And should I upgrade to single GTX 970 (I think will be too weak for Rift 60 fps max. settings) or better dual 960 (SLI) ? I assume DCS supports SLI and Intel Hyperthreading (my i7-2600k) very well since it is Dx11? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frusheen Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Wags, are you the only one who tested the Rift so far? Cause I'm very curious how DCS performs using Rift on i7-2600k and GTX 960 4GB (my current specs), bow many fps does one get with these specs? And should I upgrade to single GTX 970 (I think will be too weak for Rift 60 fps max. settings) or better dual 960 (SLI) ? I assume DCS supports SLI and Intel Hyperthreading (my i7-2600k) very well since it is Dx11? You don't want traditional sli for VR. It increases latency. We'd need VR sli to be coded (part of GameworksVR) before even considering dual cards. You should research this a bit before you spend money on a second graphics card. __________________________________________________Win 10 64bit | i7 7700k delid @ 5.1gHz | 32Gb 3466mhz TridentZ memory | Asus ROG Apex motherboard | Asus ROG Strix 1080Ti overclocked Komodosim Cyclic | C-tek anti torque pedals and collective | Warthog stick and throttle | Oculus Rift CV1 | KW-908 Jetseat | Buttkicker with Simshaker for Aviators RiftFlyer VR G-Seat project: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2733051#post2733051 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnSteam Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Wags, are you the only one who tested the Rift so far? Cause I'm very curious how DCS performs using Rift on i7-2600k and GTX 960 4GB (my current specs), bow many fps does one get with these specs? And should I upgrade to single GTX 970 (I think will be too weak for Rift 60 fps max. settings) or better dual 960 (SLI) ? I assume DCS supports SLI and Intel Hyperthreading (my i7-2600k) very well since it is Dx11? If you aren't in too much of a hurry, then wait till May-July as Nvidia is supposed to release new video cards. So for the price of a GTX 970, in a few months you will be able to buy a card that is twice as fast for the same money :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cockpit Spectator Mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBANGtheory Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) What exactly is the problem with using a mouse to manipulate the laser pointer? You don't need to see it to use it, and it has several buttons and a wheel to manipulate the controls within the virtual cockpit. Add to that the use of voice activated commands, and you can easily control the most complex simulation - it is just a matter of configuration. The laser pointer method will solve the 3 dimensional issue nicely as far as I can see. Well say you are right handed and have a central mounted stick you're going to have to take your right hand off the stick and rummage around for a mouse blindly before interacting with the cockpit control and then returning your hand back to the stick each and every time. Voice command could work nicely for radio messages I can see that be a solution. Mouse sounds immersion breaking to me I don't think using a mouse in VR is going to work well but in all fairness I haven't tried it so I could be wrong. Some external controller strapped to the side of your throttle might do it... a twist-able, directional, press-able knob of some kind? but if the data gloves are reasonably priced that is a possibility too. Perhaps something along the lines used for in car entertainment systems? Edited March 15, 2016 by BigBANGtheory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMi6 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 For anyone looking to getting the most out of their DK2 at the moment I made a thread in 2014 that covers a lot of the topics people are bringing up here. Covers topics like how to use your head as a mouse pointer, improving visible of planes at a distance and legibility of tooltips in the cockpit. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=129920 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3NTRY11 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Well say you are right handed and have a central mounted stick you're going to have to take your right hand off the stick Just like in real life! Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBANGtheory Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Just like in real life! Yes but you're neglecting the obvious point that in real life you can see your hand and when you can't (or choose not to) you have touch sense. Reaching for a mouse breaks that too much imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frusheen Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 If fumbling for a mouse is too difficult then get a trackball. I have one mounted on my collective. Until there is a glove solution that offers haptic feedback I'm happy with that. Leap motion or manus gloves etc don't appeal to me. I see little point going down the hand tracking road without haptics. With proper 3D ray tracing (laser pointer) I think things will be much better than they are now with the misaligned cursor. Hopefully GloveoneVR or another haptic solution will release in the near future. __________________________________________________Win 10 64bit | i7 7700k delid @ 5.1gHz | 32Gb 3466mhz TridentZ memory | Asus ROG Apex motherboard | Asus ROG Strix 1080Ti overclocked Komodosim Cyclic | C-tek anti torque pedals and collective | Warthog stick and throttle | Oculus Rift CV1 | KW-908 Jetseat | Buttkicker with Simshaker for Aviators RiftFlyer VR G-Seat project: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2733051#post2733051 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3NTRY11 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Yes but you're neglecting the obvious point that in real life you can see your hand and when you can't (or choose not to) you have touch sense. Reaching for a mouse breaks that too much imho. One of those things that may just bother people to differing degrees. In my experience, it's really not a problem. Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Im still planning on building my own unit.. Got a shroud/molding, just gotta find some decent 1440p screens, mount those then some LEDs for tracking :) Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeistyLemur Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Just like in real life! In real life you would take your left hand off the less important throttle most likely I would think. I've thought of getting a second ambidextrous mouse and having one on either side. Downsides to this idea are finding a good place to put it, and being utterly useless and uncomfortable at using a mouse with my left hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3NTRY11 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 In real life you would take your left hand off the less important throttle most likely I would think. To use things like the CDU in the A10? Or for that matter, anything on the right-hand side of the cockpit? Unlikely. Slip the surly bonds of Earth [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Core i7 2600k@4.5||Z77 Extreme 6||16GB RAM WIN 10||HTC Vive ||G940||1080Ti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razi Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) In real life you would take your left hand off the less important throttle most likely I would think. See the following @ 3:20: Edited March 16, 2016 by Razi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 So is it possible to move the mouse and click things in cockpit using the mouse with VR while keeping the centre of screen on the HUD ? And Jar, by march pre-ordered, do u mean u r amongst that tiny group that receives it end march or did you place the order IN march? :) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndersAnd Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 OSVR 1.4 with the included Leap Motion controller would be perfect! With the improved hand tracking, you could just reach for a switch and pinch two fingers to toggle. With a know you would pinch and rotate your hand. http://www.razerzone.com/eu-en/store/osvr-hdk ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4, Core i7-6700K, Cooler Master Hyper 212X, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX, 512 GB Samsung 950 PRO M.2 SSD, MSI GTX 1070 Armor 8G OC Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals, Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndersAnd Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 "This announcement came in conjunction with a slew of new content reveals, including support for inCellVR, Windlands, DCS World, War Thunder..." http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/osvr-hdk-v1-4-available-now,news-52599.html ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4, Core i7-6700K, Cooler Master Hyper 212X, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX, 512 GB Samsung 950 PRO M.2 SSD, MSI GTX 1070 Armor 8G OC Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals, Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frusheen Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 OSVR 1.4 with the included Leap Motion controller would be perfect! With the improved hand tracking, you could just reach for a switch and pinch two fingers to toggle. With a know you would pinch and rotate your hand. http://www.razerzone.com/eu-en/store/osvr-hdk Anyone with experience of leap and the latest software? Most reviews I've seen of the leap system are not very good. Anyone tried it in flyinside? __________________________________________________Win 10 64bit | i7 7700k delid @ 5.1gHz | 32Gb 3466mhz TridentZ memory | Asus ROG Apex motherboard | Asus ROG Strix 1080Ti overclocked Komodosim Cyclic | C-tek anti torque pedals and collective | Warthog stick and throttle | Oculus Rift CV1 | KW-908 Jetseat | Buttkicker with Simshaker for Aviators RiftFlyer VR G-Seat project: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2733051#post2733051 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndersAnd Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 With the Orion update, hand tracking has really improved: https://www.youtube.com/embed/rnlCGw-0R8g?autoplay=1 ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4, Core i7-6700K, Cooler Master Hyper 212X, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX, 512 GB Samsung 950 PRO M.2 SSD, MSI GTX 1070 Armor 8G OC Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals, Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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