DCS: SA342 Gazelle Q&A's

[Ramsay]

1) Why is it that I don't need any left rudder input when I suddenly decrease the collective (or lose power)? The sudden main rotor torque change must affect the helicopter somehow... She now feels like an RC helicopter with a heading hold gyro.

The Autopilot/Power Assist/SAS compensates ( driven by the gyros) for pitch, roll and yaw changes within certain air speed limits and/or pilot control inputs.

 

However the SAS, as modelled, may have too much authority ATM and there may be changes in a future patch, following RL gazelle pilot feedback to improve the sim and/or explain some counter intuitive behaviour to players.

[TurboHog]

The Autopilot/Power Assist/SAS compensates ( driven by the gyros) for pitch, roll and yaw changes within certain air speed limits and/or pilot control inputs.

 

However the SAS, as modelled, may have too much authority ATM and there may be changes in a future patch, following RL gazelle pilot feedback to improve the sim and/or explain some counter intuitive behaviour to players.

 

Hope so... Can't imagine this is realistic given the sudden change in force balance and the compensating - rather than anticipating - nature of a gyro. Let me see what happens without the gyro/AP system turned on

 

So I tried that...

 

Looks like it has nothing to do with the SAS/AP system... Reaction to torque changes during forward flight is almost absent... should it be like this?

Edited June 13, 2016 by TurboHog

[Fredo_69]

SAS need's to be explained!

 

Hi,

 

After 4 hrs in the Gazelle now I have the impression that it almost flies itself... As a pilot you only need small short touches to the cyclic as the chopper i self-stabilizing. Even with max turbulence and 20 m/s winds it flies perfectly stable by itself (with autopilot off and me not touching the cyclic).

 

I guess that it is the "SAS" (?) doing the job for me?

 

So this SAS "thing" (or something) needs to be explained early in the manual for new pilots to understand, especially if they (like me) come from flying the Huey (which has nothing like this "SAS"(?) in it in DCS).

Can this SAS (or something) be turned off by the pilot?

 

Sincerely,

Fredrik

Edited June 20, 2016 by Fredo_69

[FSKRipper]

Hi,

 

After 4 hrs in the Gazelle now I have the impression that it almost flies itself... As a pilot you only need small short touches to the cyclic as the chopper i self-stabilizing. Even with max turbulence and 20 m/s winds it flies perfectly stable by itself (with autopilot off and me not touching the cyclic).

 

I guess that it is the "SAS" (?) doing the job for me?

 

So this SAS "thing" (or something) needs to be explained early in the manual for new pilots to understand, especially if they (like me) come from flying the Huey (which has nothing like this "SAS"(?) in it in DCS).

Can this SAS (or something) be turned off by the pilot?

 

Sincerely,

Fredrik

 

Hi Fredrik,

 

I would suggest you use the control config to set the function "Autopilot Master" to your HOTAS. If needed you could deactivate the assist at once and switch it on again for normal control. I use the manual mode for fast and tight turns which works very well with a little practice.

[Fredo_69]

Hi Fredrik,

 

I would suggest you use the control config to set the function "Autopilot Master" to your HOTAS. If needed you could deactivate the assist at once and switch it on again for normal control. I use the manual mode for fast and tight turns which works very well with a little practice.

Thanks for the advice!

 

I had already tried that. But since you suggest it, I have tried it once again to be sure.

Switching off the autopilot masterswitch has no noticeable effect on the flight characteristics for me.

 

So the chopper is self-stabilising...

 

SAS=Stability Assistance System??

 

//Fredrik

Edited June 21, 2016 by Fredo_69

[FSKRipper]

Thanks for the advice!

 

I had already tried that. But since you suggest it, I have tried it once again to be sure.

Switching off the autopilot masterswitch has no noticeable effect on the flight characteristics for me.

 

So the chopper is self-stabilising...

 

SAS=Stability Assistance System??

 

//Fredrik

 

You should notice a difference at least when flying less than 120 km/h.

 

I recommend a look in Chucks guide: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166627

 

See part 16...

[Fredo_69]

Thanks again!

 

Chucks guide was nice, but I would still like some more info on the SAS...

Now I have double verified it again - turning off the auto pilot has no noticeable effect on the helicopters flight characteristics below 120 km/h for me. I have turned off all three axis switches AND the masterswitch - NO effect whatsoever. The chopper has a STRONG "fly-by-wire" feel to it...

 

//Fredrik

[52 MI1T]

Hello!

Does anyone knows how many polygons in Gazelle model with and without payload?

[FSKRipper]

Thanks again!

 

Chucks guide was nice, but I would still like some more info on the SAS...

Now I have double verified it again - turning off the auto pilot has no noticeable effect on the helicopters flight characteristics below 120 km/h for me. I have turned off all three axis switches AND the masterswitch - NO effect whatsoever. The chopper has a STRONG "fly-by-wire" feel to it...

 

//Fredrik

 

And you are sure that you have unchecked the "game flight mode" box under options?

 

When I'm in a slow foward movement I can feel instant feedback from the helicopter when switching the AP off. The helo tries to lean to one side and becomes more susceptible to control inputs. No idea what's wrong on your side but it's working fine in my case...

[C6_Hellfrog]

the thing which has the most impact is if you turn off the gyro stab... then the gazelle becomes much more difficult to control...

[Fredo_69]

And you are sure that you have unchecked the "game flight mode" box under options?

 

When I'm in a slow foward movement I can feel instant feedback from the helicopter when switching the AP off. The helo tries to lean to one side and becomes more susceptible to control inputs. No idea what's wrong on your side but it's working fine in my case...

Yes, I have simulation (not game) settings. Turning on/off the autopilot ha no noticeable effect for me. In wind of 20 m/s and max turbulence settings, I can throw the pedals left/right until the chopper spins 60 rpm and pull the collective up/down - and the chopper just spins steady as a rock. If I do it with autopilot on or off dosent matter - steady as a rock she flies...

IF thats realistic (?) its OK with me... I have no idea to tell really, but it seems a bit to good to be true?

[Fredo_69]

the thing which has the most impact is if you turn off the gyro stab... then the gazelle becomes much more difficult to control...

Wow, thank You!

That made her feel like I thought a helicopter should be. Need to include that in the manual!

Now I can fly her like she deserves :-)

Thanks/Fredrik

Edited June 22, 2016 by Fredo_69

[Holbeach]

Yes, I have simulation (not game) settings. Turning on/off the autopilot ha no noticeable effect for me. In wind of 20 m/s and max turbulence settings, I can throw the pedals left/right until the chopper spins 60 rpm and pull the collective up/down - and the chopper just spins steady as a rock. If I do it with autopilot on or off dosent matter - steady as a rock she flies...

IF thats realistic (?) its OK with me... I have no idea to tell really, but it seems a bit to good to be true?

 

You mean like this?

 

 

..

[Johnny Dioxin]

Expecting an Indian attack?

[Fredo_69]

Yes Holbeach, like that. And in 20 m/s wind with max turbulence in the wether settings.

The Gazelle is much less sensitive to wind and turbulence than the Huey even though its a much lighter helicopter than the Huey.

Even with gyro stab turned off (!), and the autopilot off, its very stable as long as you keep your hands off the cyclic. I'ts to good to be true?

/Fredrik

Edited June 22, 2016 by Fredo_69

[C6_Hellfrog]

realistic settings on

flight model from 1.53 update

 

cyclic inputs are VERY sensitive, as for rudder

 

I have a warthog basis with extension DIY is 35 cm height, and usually cyclic moves are in a circle less than 10 cm diameter in maximum, very often 1 - 3 cm is enough...

 

and rudders inputs with a mfg crosswind is often a few mm press, at some times I go to a 1/3 or pass a 1/2 of length of the possible move, but rarely, except in very abrupt manoeuvers you have no interest to try before you get familiar with the flying

 

another commonly encountered error is often people are making over corrections in inputs and don't wait some 1/4 to 1/2 to 1 sec of delay before response to the inputs...

 

you have to be very gentle with that subtil "demoiselle"

Edited June 22, 2016 by C6_Hellfrog

[PitbullVicious]

Question about the cyclic stick functionality between L and M models:

 

From this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166310 I've understood that the trigger in M model is used for radio, as in Huey, but in the L model it is used to fire weapons.

 

If this is true how is the radio operated in the L model (in the real Gazelle)?

 

Would it be possible to implement separate bindings for L model and M model in the future, so that us who want to emulate the buttons as close to the real thing as possible with our HOTAS (I think it's not possible to bind the trigger for two different functionality at the moment.. I'm thinking about adding this to the enhancement thread, if my current understanding proves to be correct :) )?

[sublime]

How are snipers goijng to be implemented?

[uscav19d]

Hope so... Can't imagine this is realistic given the sudden change in force balance and the compensating - rather than anticipating - nature of a gyro. Let me see what happens without the gyro/AP system turned on

 

So I tried that...

 

Looks like it has nothing to do with the SAS/AP system... Reaction to torque changes during forward flight is almost absent... should it be like this?

 

Past a certain airspeed the vertical stabilizer will completely offset the torque effect of the main rotor. This effect starts as the helicopter passes through ETL and each aircraft has their own airspeed ad which the torque is totally offset. I do not know what speed that is in a Gazelle... Small changes in torque under that speed should require pedal input, but the SAS is probably compensating.

[SL PAK]

Q: Will we have Force Feedback?

A: Force Feedback has not been fully implemented yet

You'll do it?

[Mt5_Roie]

We have two Microsoft sidewinders, but are having issues getting them to work in Windows 8. As soon as we can resolve this we'll start working on the FFB.

You'll do it?

[Flagrum]

We have two Microsoft sidewinders, but are having issues getting them to work in Windows 8. As soon as we can resolve this we'll start working on the FFB.

The old model, with that sub-d "midi port" type connector? You need a special adapter for those to work, afaik. And a simple "midi to usb" adapter will not work.

 

Probably easier to aquire a genuine usb port model ...

[Home Fries]

AFAIK, the gameport to USB adapter won't work with the SWFFB1 because despite using gameport it's still a digital controller and the adapters only work with analog controllers.

 

But I definitely concur that a SWFFB2 should be the desired course of action. No Sidewinder software, but the stick works (at least in W7x64) well with generic drivers.

[jeffdude]

AFAIK, the gameport to USB adapter won't work with the SWFFB1 because despite using gameport it's still a digital controller and the adapters only work with analog controllers.

 

But I definitely concur that a SWFFB2 should be the desired course of action. No Sidewinder software, but the stick works (at least in W7x64) well with generic drivers.

 

This whole thing highlights the problem I was trying to elude to previously. No one can get a hold of this hardware, it's not produced anymore. It seems unfair to ask for support for hardware that isn't available :doh:. I have no idea why such a cool feature isn't a staple in the modern HOTAS. I wish I could get a hold of a new joystick to enjoy FFB, but currently I don't see anything on the horizon that will do that.

[Penshoon]

This whole thing highlights the problem I was trying to elude to previously. No one can get a hold of this hardware, it's not produced anymore. It seems unfair to ask for support for hardware that isn't available :doh:. I have no idea why such a cool feature isn't a staple in the modern HOTAS. I wish I could get a hold of a new joystick to enjoy FFB, but currently I don't see anything on the horizon that will do that.

Patent issue I believe, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony