What is there still to be done for the Mig-21?

[Jaktaz]

Mig-21 also needs actual GCI, but I don't know if this is in LN's realm of expertise or if ED would need to implement it. Current GCI is just ripped off of awacs, which is trash to begin with. You call the GCI, and i gives you bearing, ETA, and altitude of the nearest bogie at a given time. GCI should be doing a lot more then that, such as vectoring you along a number of steerpoints to get on a bogie's tail, or at least vector numerous migs from different angles onto a strike package. GCI should also update the pilots with information, instead of just giving the temporal information when the pilot asks.

[cro_mig_21]

I would also like to have the Russian cockpit but with tooltips in English.

hmmmm..strange..as far as I know you are able to have that since it came out. I use it from day one; in the options gameplay tab you have to select English as avionics language and in special tab under MiG-21bis you have to tick custom cockpit livery..voilà:thumbup:

[Frederf]

SORC

RSBN/PRMG

ARK

ASP

Weapons selection

SAU

Ground power, AC

 

All of the radio navigation systems have some kind of error. It's also slightly embarrassing that the radio navigation is done internally instead of actually relying on objects in the world. There are only 4 RSBN & PRMG stations proper on Caucuses anyway which weren't added by ED until after the MiG-21 was coded. I only want the spring-loaded azimuth and distance switches to work properly like they do on the L-39. The fake internalized nature of the system I don't really care if they ever change. However if it only relied upon the 4 actual RSBN stations in the terrain or even none the system is still useful because it can be used with no radio facilities at all.

 

The ARK-10 system only has 9 presets. You set the outer preset with the button and which of the 9 is inner with the Roman numeral selector dial. I don't know where the dev got the idea that there was 8 whole groups of 9 buttons each for 72 total. That's crazy. Maybe it was a fear that the presets can only be chosen in the ME/MP and deliberately mis-modeled to compensate.

 

The PRMG is pretty good it just needs to use the 2 and 2/3rds degree glideslope instead of 4° for the Space Shuttle and extend the working signal envelope a bit.

 

The sighting and weapons selection is wrong. The ASP needs a careful going over for accuracy and the manual must be read again for AA missile selection. Four button presses four missile launches with the selector on #1 should be possible.

 

The SAU could be a whole lot more useful and correct. You notice how an asymmetrical missile load rolls to one side and there's no aileron trim? Stabilization mode should deal with that easily. With SAU working properly we'll all notice a big difference with stabilization on and off and be very familiar with the SAU pitch channel off switch.

 

Radar's good maybe even too good and I don't mind that the variable filter throttle rotation isn't in.

[Art-J]

hmmmm..strange..as far as I know you are able to have that since it came out. I use it from day one; in the options gameplay tab you have to select English as avionics language and in special tab under MiG-21bis you have to tick custom cockpit livery..voilà:thumbup:

 

Yes, but that will change avionics in all other Ru planes in the game into an English one and that's what we want to avoid.

[Tarres]

Frederf, great summary.

 

Two more things, the MRP-56, beacon marker system, that is linked in a strange way to the PRMG and that the code for the RSBN/PRMG is coded from Blackshark 1 onwards in the Beacons.lua, alongside with the TACAN/ILS/NDB and other navigation systems.

[Cobra847]

Just a short note about navigation systems:

 

The MiG-21 navigation was built before there was any usable base for RSBN/ARK or any sort of world oriented navigation systems available in the sim/API.

That is why the MiG-21 uses a custom way of building this functionality.

 

It was a necessary evil at the time and maybe at some point we will get around to changing this.

 

I don't know where the dev got the idea that there was 8 whole groups of 9 buttons each for 72 total. That's crazy. Maybe it was a fear that the presets can only be chosen in the ME/MP and deliberately mis-modeled to compensate.

 

It would be a total pain to deal with if we didn't make a compromise here.

[grunf]

Just a short note about navigation systems:

 

The MiG-21 navigation was built before there was any usable base for RSBN/ARK or any sort of world oriented navigation systems available in the sim/API.

That is why the MiG-21 uses a custom way of building this functionality.

 

It was a necessary evil at the time and maybe at some point we will get around to changing this.

Hope you'll include RSBN manual mode (azimuth and distance switches). There probably won't be many RSBN stations on future maps. :D

[foxbat155]

It was a necessary evil at the time and maybe at some point we will get around to changing this.

 

That's great news. If you need i have manual for RSBN-5S.:thumbup:

[uboats]

What is there still to be done for the Mig-21?

 

That's great news. If you need i have manual for RSBN-5S.:thumbup:

 

 

 

Do you mind if you share it here? :)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Toybasher]

SORC

RSBN/PRMG

ARK

ASP

Weapons selection

SAU

Ground power, AC

 

All of the radio navigation systems have some kind of error. It's also slightly embarrassing that the radio navigation is done internally instead of actually relying on objects in the world. There are only 4 RSBN & PRMG stations proper on Caucuses anyway which weren't added by ED until after the MiG-21 was coded. I only want the spring-loaded azimuth and distance switches to work properly like they do on the L-39. The fake internalized nature of the system I don't really care if they ever change. However if it only relied upon the 4 actual RSBN stations in the terrain or even none the system is still useful because it can be used with no radio facilities at all.

 

The ARK-10 system only has 9 presets. You set the outer preset with the button and which of the 9 is inner with the Roman numeral selector dial. I don't know where the dev got the idea that there was 8 whole groups of 9 buttons each for 72 total. That's crazy. Maybe it was a fear that the presets can only be chosen in the ME/MP and deliberately mis-modeled to compensate.

 

The PRMG is pretty good it just needs to use the 2 and 2/3rds degree glideslope instead of 4° for the Space Shuttle and extend the working signal envelope a bit.

 

The sighting and weapons selection is wrong. The ASP needs a careful going over for accuracy and the manual must be read again for AA missile selection. Four button presses four missile launches with the selector on #1 should be possible.

 

The SAU could be a whole lot more useful and correct. You notice how an asymmetrical missile load rolls to one side and there's no aileron trim? Stabilization mode should deal with that easily. With SAU working properly we'll all notice a big difference with stabilization on and off and be very familiar with the SAU pitch channel off switch.

 

Radar's good maybe even too good and I don't mind that the variable filter throttle rotation isn't in.

 

 

What is wrong with SORC? (AKA the red "Something is broken!" light.)

 

All I can think that's wrong with it is from what I've read by the past devs, (Before LN took over) there was supposed to be a tone when it comes on?

[foxbat155]

Do you mind if you share it here? :)

 

Manual is in Polish language, if this is not the problem ( I know that LN have some Polish guys in team ) of course I'm able to share.

[Jaktaz]

That light doesn't really do anything for me anyway.

[Frederf]

It would be a total pain to deal with if we didn't make a compromise here.

I really don't understand how. Below is blah-blah about how it could have been and I don't see the quantum leap in coding difficulty.

 

 

Even if the API for world-reference behavior wasn't available and doing it from simple internal-reference I don't see how that stops making it frequency-linked.

 

I give an example. Say the MiG-28 uses QYWK beacons for navigation. The world has zero such items in existence and/or there is no API for world-referencing them if there were. However we want to define 5 such QYWK sites fictionally and internally as simply positions and channels A,B,C,D,E.

 

Now the MiG-28 only has 3 slots for QYWK channels in its equipment. In a particular mission the ME/MP is set say B,C,E for slots 1,2,3. In flight the user turns the QYWK equipment to Slot 2 which is looked up as channel C which is seen to match an internally-defined beacon and the needle points there.

 

At no point was required a world-reference API or the beacon type to physically exist. The system works at maximum fidelity despite the internal nature of the beacon database and needle behavior. The only additional ability required was to introduce a ME preset tab and store-retrieve the slot-channel data to-from the mission. The mission author tailors slot-channel as needed.

 

The upside of the above implementation is modularity. If at any point the internal-reference is swapped for (or even supplemented by) world-reference the supporting infrastructure is in place. Even old missions which saved the slot-channel data "Slot 1 = Channel A" can work despite the changeover.

 

LNS has the ability to use ME preset definitions as they do so with the R-828. An example of ARK preset configuration is seen in the Ka-50, the first DCS module. By looking at the mission editor nor in flight it's impossible to tell if the Ka-50 actually references the world beacons or if it uses a "cheaty" internal database. The MiG-21 can be the same way.

 

 

What is wrong with SORC?

It's currently queuing warnings so you have to push it an equal number of times that there were reasons for it to be triggered. It is also turning off automatically without pilot input when the triggering condition is removed.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Frederf

[CoBlue]

All of the radio navigation systems have some kind of error. It's also slightly embarrassing that the radio navigation is done internally instead of actually relying on objects in the world. There are only 4 RSBN & PRMG stations proper on Caucuses anyway which weren't added by ED until after the MiG-21 was coded.

All the FC3 airplanes & A10-C, UH-1 can use ILS's in Caucasus map, on all airports, not so realistic but very handy:)

I think LN did a good job of giving us many RSBN/PRMG stations for the sake of gameplay.

I certainly don't want the Mig-21 being limited to just 4 airports for IMC landings of witch 2 are only from 1 direction!

Besides from what I know RSBN could be mobile on trucks & I think PRMG was too or could be easily set up.

 

Just a short note about navigation systems:

The MiG-21 navigation was built before there was any usable base for RSBN/ARK or any sort of world oriented navigation systems available in the sim/API.

That is why the MiG-21 uses a custom way of building this functionality.

It was a necessary evil at the time and maybe at some point we will get around to changing this.

Please, just leave it as it is now.

[Jaktaz]

All the FC3 airplanes & A10-C, UH-1 can use ILS's in Caucasus map, on all airports, not so realistic but very handy:)

I think LN did a good job of giving us many RSBN/PRMG stations for the sake of gameplay.

I certainly don't want the Mig-21 being limited to just 4 airports for IMC landings of witch 2 are only from 1 direction!

Besides from what I know RSBN could be mobile on trucks & I think PRMG was too or could be easily set up.

 

 

Please, just leave it as it is now.

 

I thought I remembered hearing somewhere that you can place RSBN stations in the mission editor.

[Frederf]

All the FC3 airplanes & A10-C, UH-1 can use ILS's in Caucasus map, on all airports, not so realistic but very handy:)

I think LN did a good job of giving us many RSBN/PRMG stations for the sake of gameplay.

I certainly don't want the Mig-21 being limited to just 4 airports for IMC landings of witch 2 are only from 1 direction!

Besides from what I know RSBN could be mobile on trucks & I think PRMG was too or could be easily set up.

 

Please, just leave it as it is now.

 

Right now I cannot do a 2NDB approach so I don't want it "as is." Let's make the thing like the thing. Ideally all four channelized radios (at least comm, ARK) have their frequency definitions exposed to the mission editor and all read directly off the terrain. The RSBN gear is definitely tactically deployable and should have editor-placed equipment to augment the permanent stuff if the mission author wants.

 

Fully-featured RSBN works* even without any ground gear and ubiquitous NDBs mean there isn't an airport in the terrain that can't support an instrument approach down to 50m. Somehow manage to also allow user radio reprogramming in multiplayer as and it's just perfect.

[Harle]

maybe at some point

 

How very reassuring.

So fixing the Mig takes no high priority?

[Cobra847]

How very reassuring.

So fixing the Mig takes no high priority?

 

Fixing implies something is broken.

It is not considered a critical change.

 

Last I checked- there were 80+ fixed issues in the last 6 months, not including the massive changes coming in the next patch(es).

 

That should tell you enough.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Cobra847

[BadHabit]

People! Let's stay patient a bit more, until ED pushes the updates. Then it's all back to the fun of testing once more and the "swords" to be dueled again :P

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Fixing implies something is broken.

It is not considered a critical change.

 

Last I checked- there were 80+ fixed issues in the last 6 months, not including the massive changes coming in the next patch(es).

 

That should tell you enough.

When the patch does come could you release a separate full patch note for the 21 in case ED fails to actually sat what all got fixed?

 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[Harle]

Fixing implies something is broken.

It is not considered a critical change.

 

Your demeanor leaves a lot to be desired.

Last I checked- there were 80+ fixed issues in the last 6 months, not including the massive changes coming in the next patch(es).

 

That should tell you enough.

 

I'm not referring necessarily to RSBN. I guess you already know what I'm mont anxious about.

 

That's true, my demeanor sure could have been better. However, almost two years of waiting for ASP to start working as the manual describes it made me somewhat impatient. Sorry about that.

 

I'm sure happy to see the long awaited feature of radar-assisted A-A cannon aiming being implemented. But still, the issue of A-G inaccurate aiming still persists. As demonstrated in the video at the beginning of this thread, the pipper points a bit too high which causes all the bullets to fall short of the target. Both requirenets mentioned by Novak met - flat terrain and 20 degrees dive. Would very much like for this one to be fixed soon. An explanation of what I was doing wrong in that guns pass would also be appreciated.

[Jaktaz]

What are the inconsistencies that Ln's mig-21 has with the ASP in comparison to the manua?

[probad]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=132696&page=5

this is what hes talking about

Edited June 24, 2016 by probad

[NaCH]

Exist few threads about that. You can download DCS L-39 manual from here:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=149376

 

Read RSBN part and compare with what we have in MiG-21, you will see difference.

 

Question that I have about this:

 

When the Mig21 was released there was RSBN / ARC stations concept on the DCS engine?

 

I think this was added prior the L39 lunch.

[foxbat155]

Honestly I have no idea. Cobra said no, has not existed, and I don't have reason to not believe him. I just hope ( like many others users ), that in near future LN will improve Bis navigation system and we will got RSBN like in L-39 plus of course "real" ARK. Like I wrote few posts ago,I can share with manual if they needed.