ED approved home made AI aircraft or vehicles for updates

[carss]

So I was just thinking, since ED usually has there hands full with correcting bugs and fixing things and making new stuff for DCS, why not allow private or home made aircraft to be added to the game publicly in future updates? Strictly AI, people who can make planes at home can do so like this Mig-19 here..........

 

 

Or this J-10A mod that comes with it's own set of Chinese missiles......

 

 

And so many times we hear of people making requests of making new models or adding new planes so they have something new to fight with. This can also help in getting rid of the older shabby models that we still have as AI like the Su-17, C-17 or the Mig-25 for example.

 

What happens is basically, we can open a new thread/forum section just for this. If we want a specific plane to be replaced (or maybe another vehicle) or also added for instance, we simply put it there. Anyone who might like to work on it, can do so. And then send the model over to ED for review (along with which weapons it carries, roles it does, countries it's part of). And then ED can approve the model and then integrate it onto the next update.

 

We can also use this for adding not just new planes, but also new variants, like apart from there being just the Su-27, Su-33, Su-30, and Su-34 in the Flanker family, one can make a new Su-30MKM or MKI model, and also improve the old Su-30 that we have?

[Jhuss96]

So I was just thinking, since ED usually has there hands full with correcting bugs and fixing things and making new stuff for DCS, why not allow private or home made aircraft to be added to the game publicly in future updates? Strictly AI, people who can make planes at home can do so like this Mig-19 here..........

 

 

Or this J-10A mod that comes with it's own set of Chinese missiles......

 

 

And so many times we hear of people making requests of making new models or adding new planes so they have something new to fight with. This can also help in getting rid of the older shabby models that we still have as AI like the Su-17, C-17 or the Mig-25 for example.

 

What happens is basically, we can open a new thread/forum section just for this. If we want a specific plane to be replaced (or maybe another vehicle) or also added for instance, we simply put it there. Anyone who might like to work on it, can do so. And then send the model over to ED for review (along with which weapons it carries, roles it does, countries it's part of). And then ED can approve the model and then integrate it onto the next update.

 

We can also use this for adding not just new planes, but also new variants, like apart from there being just the Su-27, Su-33, Su-30, and Su-34 in the Flanker family, one can make a new Su-30MKM or MKI model, and also improve the old Su-30 that we have?

 

+1 Why not let some of the talented community members help ease ED's workload, at no cost too. I don't really see any downside, as long as ED reviews the models to make sure theyre up to snuff

[Silver_Dragon]

if someone can reach the quality require by ED, surely can help about them. Can contact with Wags of other ED team member.

 

Remember the List of vacant models by ED:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104115

Edited July 26, 2016 by Silver_Dragon

[SkateZilla]

The 3D models would have to meet a Strict list of criteria, Quality Wise, 3D Art Wise and Licensing Wise.

[carss]

if someone can reach the quality require by ED, surely can help about them. Can contact with Wags of other ED team member.

 

Remember the List of vacant models by ED:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104115

 

How about that J-10 over there? I have tried it out and quite frankly I am super impressed by it's quality and features. Why not give some knowhow in the "How to" section where modellers can train and learn how to make up to ED quality models?

 

OR.......

 

We could make it something like what it is when uploading a photograph to Airliners.net? Where when we upload a photograph, they are reviewed and based on quality or whatever, they are selected/rejected.

[cichlidfan]

Not a chance in a million of ED agreeing to something like this.

 

It isn't easy to qualify as a third party, and that still doesn't guarantee that ED will accept your final product. Why on earth would they entertain the idea of including untested, outside software into the software that they provide to their customers.

 

Don't say they can test it first, because that isn't going to happen either.

 

If you had been around the forum for that past few years, when the first third parties were getting brought into the picture, you might have a better idea why this is a non-starter.

[Stratos]

A MiG-17 using the 15Bis cockpit can be ana amzing addition, but it's not gonna happen.

[carss]

Not a chance in a million of ED agreeing to something like this.

 

It isn't easy to qualify as a third party, and that still doesn't guarantee that ED will accept your final product. Why on earth would they entertain the idea of including untested, outside software into the software that they provide to their customers.

 

Don't say they can test it first, because that isn't going to happen either.

 

If you had been around the forum for that past few years, when the first third parties were getting brought into the picture, you might have a better idea why this is a non-starter.

 

Take a look at what Skate_Zilla and Silver Dragon have said above please

[cichlidfan]

Take a look at what Skate_Zilla and Silver Dragon have said above please

 

I did. You will still have to acquire third party status before ED will distribute anything for you.

[carss]

I did. You will still have to acquire third party status before ED will distribute anything for you.

 

But like I said, why not just limit it to basic Ai planes? All they have to do is make the model, rig it and add texture, then let ED review it and do the rest.

[cichlidfan]

But like I said, why not just limit it to basic Ai planes? All they have to do is make the model, rig it and add texture, then let ED review it and do the rest.

 

Who is going to make the FM?

[carss]

Who is going to make the FM?

 

If the person who made the main model is skilled enough, then he can, or else, just ED can do it. Mostly ED since it's basically just AI and nothing more

[cichlidfan]

You do realize that the FM is the hard part, which ED will just whip up in between all of the other things they currently have on their plate.

 

If ED wanted to do something like this, I am sure that they have plenty of people capable of creating models but someone still has to write a lot of code. ED doesn't make the FM for the other third parties, why would they want to make one for 'some guy who made a model'?

[Abburo]

I think the proposal here is not focused to have "moded" flyable planes. And BTW I wouldn't agree this approach because it can introduce a lot of hacks.

 

I never used a plane mod in DCS because it looks extremely odd to fly a F16 let's say having the SU25 cockpit and an Extra300 FM :D.

 

But adding nicer AI planes, even new planes or improving existent assets could be indeed something achievable. There is no worry about FM becasue it is anyway a SFM already in place. The main concern remains with the model and damage model.

[WinterH]

Even if suggestion is only to provide AI mods, they will still need a flight model. Also, even better mods rarely match visual quality of in house AI models. I personally would be OK with not every AI model looking amazing, but it is ED's decision to take.

 

Also, inclusion of a 3D model in a commercial (and at certain cases even a military trainer) software would be subject to licencing. And once legalties get involved, not everyone might be as willing to share their model for free.

 

As good willed as it is, I don't think there is much realistic merit in this suggestion.

[carss]

I think the proposal here is not focused to have "moded" flyable planes. And BTW I wouldn't agree this approach because it can introduce a lot of hacks.

 

I never used a plane mod in DCS because it looks extremely odd to fly a F16 let's say having the SU25 cockpit and an Extra300 FM :D.

 

But adding nicer AI planes, even new planes or improving existent assets could be indeed something achievable. There is no worry about FM becasue it is anyway a SFM already in place. The main concern remains with the model and damage model.

 

Which is why I said ED approved (or even modded). I mean at least if these people can make their own homemade models and send it to ED for further work, then that'll take a load off of EDs shoulders to make new planes from the start.

 

Take the new F-16s that are on their way now. If we for example implemented this idea before, ED would not have had to go through the pain of building the F-16 from scratch and then going all the way with it, but instead maybe use the time for other things in DCS. I feel it's much more efficient for both sides.

[carss]

Even if suggestion is only to provide AI mods, they will still need a flight model. Also, even better mods rarely match visual quality of in house AI models. I personally would be OK with not every AI model looking amazing, but it is ED's decision to take.

 

Also, inclusion of a 3D model in a commercial (and at certain cases even a military trainer) software would be subject to licencing. And once legalties get involved, not everyone might be as willing to share their model for free.

 

As good willed as it is, I don't think there is much realistic merit in this suggestion.

 

Well I have a solution for that, why not hold maybe a small selection type of event, where let's say the best 5 modelers, after submitting some shots of their best models. They can maybe given the licence, purely for volunteering but with conditions of not distributing.

[Zulu]

Maybe creating AI aircraft has some issues.

 

But what about simple ground vehicles?

 

It would be great if we could increase our stable of ground vehicles. Technicals, MRAPS, AAA, other soft skinned/lightly armed vehicles.

 

Since currently the choppers and light strike aircraft don't really have reasonable opposition to face.

 

It would also allow us to expand the variety of models in terms of country specific vehicles. Especially the larger countries represented in DCS (such as China), that don't have unique units.

I can't imagine there is as much difficulty with creating such models compared to aircraft.

[carss]

Maybe creating AI aircraft has some issues.

 

But what about simple ground vehicles?

 

It would be great if we could increase our stable of ground vehicles. Technicals, MRAPS, AAA, other soft skinned/lightly armed vehicles.

 

Since currently the choppers and light strike aircraft don't really have reasonable opposition to face.

 

It would also allow us to expand the variety of models in terms of country specific vehicles. Especially the larger countries represented in DCS (such as China), that don't have unique units.

I can't imagine there is as much difficulty with creating such models compared to aircraft.

 

Absolutely, those and ships too!! Maybe even Submarines! I did mention vehicles along with planes in the original post. And lets face it, out Submarines are just a floating empty shell with pixels on them. :(

[WinterH]

We also need lots of ground vehicles from older periods, as well as at least a few of the ones operated by newly added countries across those eras.

 

Some 50s 60s tanks, IFVs and air defence vehicles, stationary guns, either AA or artillery, or AT focused ones. 40s ones are already coming either coincidentally, or may be a bit later than Normandy probably.

 

Ground vehicles, and also ships to a degree, is where we realyl could use some effort indeed.

 

May be, if ED would indeed do a competition for modeling ground vehicles, and choosing 5 top quality ones, with modeling, stats etc included, and giving away a few licence keys to winners, such an effort could potentially lead to interesting results :).

[carss]

We also need lots of ground vehicles from older periods, as well as at least a few of the ones operated by newly added countries across those eras.

 

Some 50s 60s tanks, IFVs and air defence vehicles, stationary guns, either AA or artillery, or AT focused ones. 40s ones are already coming either coincidentally, or may be a bit later than Normandy probably.

 

Ground vehicles, and also ships to a degree, is where we realyl could use some effort indeed.

 

May be, if ED would indeed do a competition for modeling ground vehicles, and choosing 5 top quality ones, with modeling, stats etc included, and giving away a few licence keys to winners, such an effort could potentially lead to interesting results :).

 

I was just thinking about the competition thing myself ;)

[NeilWillis]

Or, modellers could simply apply for a job working for ED.

 

If ED wanted to farm work out to unproven external modellers, they'd have already done it. And I can understand entirely their approach to licencing add ins. There do have to be strict standards, and also, the licencing of intellectual property use would be a real killer as it'd cost a fortune to buy the rights, and without that, ED would be exposed to law suits.

[Aginor]

Oh come on, NeilWillis, don't be a naysayer.

 

Some of the vehicles made by our late friend Lilkiki (we will really miss him. :( ) were top notch, better quality than some stuff created by ED that is in the sim right now.

Same goes for upuaut, the awesome team Markindel/Stonehouse/crazyeddie, and at least half a dozen others in the community.

 

Of course ED is constantly re-working assets, and of course I can see some licensing/IP issues, especially when doing modern stuff, but they can be overcome. For WWII stuff it is even better, for obvious reasons.

 

ED should seriously consider this, especially for ground vehicles and ships there are great artists in the community who would share some of their stuff with ED, accepting a "thank you" and a mention in the credits in exchange for their work.

 

Given the tools I would use my professional skills to do stuff for free. Unfortunately we don't have the tools I would need. Vehicle builders have at least some tools.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Aginor

[SkateZilla]

But like I said, why not just limit it to basic Ai planes? All they have to do is make the model, rig it and add texture, then let ED review it and do the rest.

 

It's no where near as simple as you make it sound..

 

"just model, add texture, rig it"

 

Modeling Even an AI Aircraft takes extensive work, and continued support/development as things are changed, added, removed, improved, replaced etc etc.

 

You have to Verify the source of the model, as much as people love new models, not all of them are entirely made from scratch or the person's property, There are alot of "Mods", that use assets from other Simulations without permission.

 

Quality Control is a Huge Factor, A lot of the Mods, are Half Baked/Subpar and do not visually measure up to the DCS Standand.

 

Then you have the entire Legal Process,

You cannot just submit a J-10, F-35, etc etc even if Modeled 100%, without the parent company having an agreement to include that aircraft from the manufacturer (ie Lockheed, Boeing etc etc).

 

Which is Why to do anything on the Official Capacity, the 3D Artist must pursue a legal agreement w/ Eagle Dynamics.

 

 

I've done several Fully Modeled Aircraft for Private Teams, External Models, Flight Models, etc.

Edited July 28, 2016 by SkateZilla

[Aginor]

For planes it is quite a bit more complex, no doubt about it.