BF 109 k4 weapons update?

[EliteKatze]

Hey guys,

so the FW190 d9 got new rockets and such. Now I was curious whether an update like this will be released for the bf 109 k4 as well? I have several Luftwaffe-books, that state that the bf109 k4 could carry R4m rockets or an additional 20mm MG on each wing, which also makes sence, because ingame there is a switch above/below the MW50 switch that enables wing cannons.

Do you guys know anything conerning this?

 

thanks in advance,

EliteKatze

[Buzzles]

I think Sithspawn put in a feature request for these on both aircraft.

 

As the Dora has just been upgraded, it's fairly safe to say they'll probably come eventually.

[NineLine]

Correct, its requested, just not sure of a timeline when it might happen.

[TheFace]

I would rather have the ability to swap out for the 20mm motor canon instead of the 30mm. It was a fairly common loadout.

[Kurfürst]

There was no such thing except for maybe a single oddball. K-4 was MK 108 only.

[jester_]

There was no such thing except for maybe a single oddball.

 

Yellow 4, right? From 11./JG 11? That's the only K-4 I can find with a 151/20 in the nose instead of the MK 108.

[jermin]

I want the MK 108 gunpods.

[Kurfürst]

Yellow 4, right? From 11./JG 11? That's the only K-4 I can find with a 151/20 in the nose instead of the MK 108.

 

You seem to be more aware of it then I am! I am curious about the source though, since extrenal le it would be tough to identify. IIRC it was an Erla produced 'mutant', but honestly I have never cared to much about oddities, yet strangely this single MG 151 one keeps coming up. K-4 specs were always MK 108 though - K-2 (became the G-10) was to have the MG 151 though.

[EliteKatze]

There was no such thing except for maybe a single oddball. K-4 was MK 108 only.

 

''Armament

 

Guns:

2 × 13 mm (.51 in) synchronized MG 131 machine guns with 300 rounds per gun

1 × 20 mm (.78 in) MG 151/20 cannon as centerline Motorkanone with 200 rpg.[84]

or

 

1 x 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannon as centerline Motorkanone with 65 rpg (G-6/U4 variant)

2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 underwing cannon pods with 135 rpg (optional kit—Rüstsatz VI)

Rockets: 2 × 21 cm (8 in) Wfr. Gr. 21 rockets (G-6 with BR21)

Bombs: 1 × 250 kg (551 lb) bomb or 4 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs or 1 × 300-litre (79 US gal) drop tank''

[Solty]

''Armament

 

Guns:

2 × 13 mm (.51 in) synchronized MG 131 machine guns with 300 rounds per gun

1 × 20 mm (.78 in) MG 151/20 cannon as centerline Motorkanone with 200 rpg.[84]

or

 

1 x 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannon as centerline Motorkanone with 65 rpg (G-6/U4 variant)

2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 underwing cannon pods with 135 rpg (optional kit—Rüstsatz VI)

Rockets: 2 × 21 cm (8 in) Wfr. Gr. 21 rockets (G-6 with BR21)

Bombs: 1 × 250 kg (551 lb) bomb or 4 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs or 1 × 300-litre (79 US gal) drop tank''

Read what you've wrote or rather copied, please. Is this about Bf109K4? Or is it about Bf109G6?

 

Secondly, please add a source to what you put on the forum.

 

The K4, as stated by Kurfurst, had only the Mk108 cannon through the engine. Other 109's are not K4.

[jester_]

You seem to be more aware of it then I am! I am curious about the source though, since extrenal le it would be tough to identify. IIRC it was an Erla produced 'mutant', but honestly I have never cared to much about oddities, yet strangely this single MG 151 one keeps coming up. K-4 specs were always MK 108 though - K-2 (became the G-10) was to have the MG 151 though.

 

The only mention I've found of it was in two books:

 

Messerschmitt Bf 109 F, G, & K. by Jochen Prien & Peter Rodeike

 

and

 

Messerschmitt Bf109K Tomas P

 

I looked around the internet for a little while to see if I could dig up any other 20mm K-4s, but haven't found anything yet. I only looked briefly though. I would suspect, however, that if there were more, they would be documented somewhere, since it would have been a big deal.

 

 

I think the reason it keeps coming up is either 1. because of War Thunder and the upgrade system they have that people assume is realistic or 2. they see mention of Yellow 4 and that loadout that existed one time, very briefly is justification to say that it was common and/or a doable loadout. Both of which are not true.

[shagrat]

Read what you've wrote or rather copied, please. Is this about Bf109K4? Or is it about Bf109G6?

 

Secondly, please add a source to what you put on the forum.

 

The K4, as stated by Kurfurst, had only the Mk108 cannon through the engine. Other 109's are not K4.

 

 

If you want to dive into that topic: http://www.klueser.eu/Me109.php

 

K-4 Serie mit DB 605 D, zwei MG 131 und MK 108/M (später auch Versuche mit Mk103) (204)mit MW-50-Einspritzung(174)

(...)

Verwendbare Rüstsätze (ohne Aussage, ob auch wirklich verwendet): I, III, IV, VI(176)

So these Rüstsätze were available, though it is not clear if they were used. They would fit on the K4.

 

And here: http://www.fliegerweb.com/de/lexicon/Geschichte/Messerschmitt+Bf+109+K-519

Die Verwendung von Waffengondeln als Rüstsätze mit 20 mm Maschinenkanonen MG 151/20, Rüstsatz R 6, oder 30 mm Maschinenkanonen MK 103, Rüstsatz R 5, war möglich und wurde auch häufig benutzt.

 

So the Mk 103 (R5) was used regularly. As well as the underwing 151/20 (R6), as well as the 2 × 21 cm (8 in) Wfr. Gr. 21 rockets, though the underwing pods were not favored by most pilots, as it degraded the maneuverability of the K-4.

 

Additional Rüstsätze, or equipment kits, such as a 300 L (80 US gal) drop tank (R III), bombs up to the size of 500 kg/1,100 lb (R I), underwing 20 mm Mauser MG 151/20 cannon gondola pods (R IV) or 21 cm (8 in) Wfr.Gr. 21 rockets (as on the Gustav models) could be carried after minimal preparations; the latter two however were rarely used by Bf 109 units at this stage of the war, although III./JG 26 were almost completely equipped with K-4s which were fitted with R IV:

 

...apparently all of the K-4s supplied to III./JG 26 were also equipped with 20 mm-guns in the hated underwing tubs. Uffz. Georg Genth's regular aircraft was a G-10, but on occasion he flew a K-4. He preferred the G-10 as a dogfighter, as the K-4's bulky armament sharply reduced its manouevrability.

 

Source: Caldwell, Donald L. JG 26: Top Guns of the Luftwaffe. New York: Ballantine Books, 1991. ISBN 0-8041-1050-6. Page 292.

[Solty]

If you want to dive into that topic: http://www.klueser.eu/Me109.php

 

 

So these Rüstsätze were available, though it is not clear if they were used. They would fit on the K4.

 

And here: http://www.fliegerweb.com/de/lexicon/Geschichte/Messerschmitt+Bf+109+K-519

 

 

So the Mk 103 (R5) was used regularly. As well as the underwing 151/20 (R6), as well as the 2 × 21 cm (8 in) Wfr. Gr. 21 rockets, though the underwing pods were not favored by most pilots, as it degraded the maneuverability of the K-4.

I know the additional armament (Rüstsätze) the K4 can use. But I was refering to the only possible Motorkanone which depends on Umbauversione, which are not available for the K4 as it was standarised around the Mk108.

 

But EliteKatze just copied the "Specifications (Bf 109 G-6)" section of the Bf109 on Wikipedia, which is wrong to assume that G6=K4.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Solty

[MiloMorai]

So William Green's mention in one of his books from back in the '50s still lives.

 

That is the engine mounted MK103.

[Solty]

So William Green's mention in one of his books from back in the '50s still lives.

 

That is the engine mounted MK103.

Mk103 was suppose to be mounted in the K10 which also had additonal MK108 in the wings, much like the MG/FF of the 109E.

[MiloMorai]

It wasn't a standard MK103 Solty.

 

Iirc the designation was MK103M and it never operated properly on a test rig.

[Solty]

It wasn't a standard MK103 Solty.

 

Iirc the designation was MK103M and it never operated properly on a test rig.

Exactly, thats why the K10 was never produced in any numbers :book: That is why I said it was suppose to be on the plane, but was never realized.

 

EDIT: I have never heard about any other 109 having Mk103 as Motorkanone. It seems highly implausible due to sheer power the weapon has, it was mostly mounted on ground attack aircraft as AT weapon, such as Hs129 and Me410.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Solty

[shagrat]

Exactly, thats why the K10 was never produced in any numbers :book: That is why I said it was suppose to be on the plane, but was never realized.

 

EDIT: I have never heard about any other 109 having Mk103 as Motorkanone. It seems highly implausible due to sheer power the weapon has, it was mostly mounted on ground attack aircraft as AT weapon, such as Hs129 and Me410.

I've read the issue was, to rebuild the firewall, hinges for the motor block etc. due to different length of the MK103/M...

[Skjold]

I am personally rather dissapointed over the release, i would have expected wing gunpods to be added to the K-4 as well as rockets.

 

There is both keybinds and cockpit functionality for selecting and firing rockets as well as turning gun pods on/off. Now i deeply regret buying this plane.

[NineLine]

I am personally rather dissapointed over the release, i would have expected wing gunpods to be added to the K-4 as well as rockets.

 

There is both keybinds and cockpit functionality for selecting and firing rockets as well as turning gun pods on/off. Now i deeply regret buying this plane.

 

They were not required for full release, doesnt mean they wont be added.

[Kelevra9987]

I am personally rather dissapointed over the release, i would have expected wing gunpods to be added to the K-4 as well as rockets.

 

There is both keybinds and cockpit functionality for selecting and firing rockets as well as turning gun pods on/off. Now i deeply regret buying this plane.

 

To be disappoinzed by the lack of some weapons on a Module is kinda pointless IMO. The Kurfürst is definitly worth buying since it is a very good plane with very little bugs. And as Sith allready said, it doesn't mean Weapons won't be added at a later date...

[Dieter]

To be disappoinzed by the lack of some weapons on a Module is kinda pointless IMO. The Kurfürst is definitly worth buying since it is a very good plane with very little bugs. And as Sith allready said, it doesn't mean Weapons won't be added at a later date...

 

You are right kelevra but the R4M are already in function with the DORA. It was not a big duty to put it in the K4. For this reason i am disappointed.

[Art-J]

They have wrong fuse type and wrong firing sequence though. Possibly wrong operation in mixed loadouts too. Early work in progress it seems. I'd rather see them sorted properly first before they put them on the other plane.

[Andy1966]

Hi All,

 

I have been under the impression that the 21cm rocket was designed as an anti air rocket for use against bomber formations with time delay fuse and was modified with a proximity fuse derived from the 88 aaa round, and then modified again with time delay/impact fuse for ground attack capability, Am I mistaken? if I could figure out how to post a link, I will post info with my posts. its amazing what you can find by searching wwII weapons but distinguishing fact from fiction an be a challenge

 

 

Andy

[Skjold]

To be disappoinzed by the lack of some weapons on a Module is kinda pointless IMO. The Kurfürst is definitly worth buying since it is a very good plane with very little bugs. And as Sith allready said, it doesn't mean Weapons won't be added at a later date...

 

I disagree. This is Digital Combat Simulator, so therefor taking away the majority of non internal weapons and calling it a release shouldn't be acceptable.

 

Imagine if the F-5 was released without its Mk. 82's or rocket pods?

Imagine if the A-10 was released without its AGM-65's or GBU's?

Imagine if the MiG-21 was released without its S-24's and rocket pods?

 

Just like on the 109, this would remove a large part of its combat effectiveness and with no other module have we seen a transition from beta to full release with the majority of weapon systems missing.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Skjold