Ln's fourth jet after F-14: Mig-23 or Su-22?

[pepin1234]

The flogger shot down 1 mirage, which isn't very good considering it was armed with r23s and r60s. The SAAF aircraft were limited to tail chase missiles because of an arms embargo. Look at the flogger's record in Iraqi service against Iran and in Syrian service against Israel. They were generally regarded as a disappointment.

 

Mig-23 was a success in Angola war. The DAAFAR was very careful after the only one loss Mig-21 by ambushes tactic. The SAAF almost did not use the aviation after they know the Mig-23 was ready to face them in battlefield, that's why only one F-1 was official shoot down, but unofficial some of them never get RTB making emergency landing in friendly area. They were reported as accidents. Tactically... The R-24 missile was not needed in such combat with GCI, because two F-1 were high but the rest very low to ambush. Not for the second time...

[Mainstay]

If it would be a MiG-23 then it should be a ML/MLA or MLD. The MF version is just a step backwards compared to the F14A.

 

In my opinion to create a more balanced combat environment the types that i named would be very welcome.

 

MiG-23 is an instant buy for me.

[Jaktaz]

If it would be a MiG-23 then it should be a ML/MLA or MLD. The MF version is just a step backwards compared to the F14A.

 

In my opinion to create a more balanced combat environment the types that i named would be very welcome.

 

MiG-23 is an instant buy for me.

 

MF would be cool because it suffered from the problems faced with the early SapFir III radar, meaning that you would still rely on gci to get you into parameters as it have a very narrow cone and could only lock onto targets heading right at it. Rear aspect attacks would require use of the irst.

[Dudikoff]

MF would be cool because it suffered from the problems faced with the early SapFir III radar, meaning that you would still rely on gci to get you into parameters as it have a very narrow cone and could only lock onto targets heading right at it. Rear aspect attacks would require use of the irst.

 

It's not like the ML/MLA/MLD had a powerful radar and didn't rely on GCI at all to guide them towards targets, but it would be a much more flexible module with the look down/shoot down option, better missiles (MLA/D), better MMI (with a new HUD), more maneuverable, CM's (on MLD), etc.

 

Insisting that the earlier M/MF would be a better fit for the DCSW might be hard to defend IMHO, especially given the other modules (e.g. the mid-80's F-14A by LN).

Edited September 5, 2016 by Dudikoff

[Dr_Arrow]

I sadly think that we won't see any Eastern aircraft from LN in some near future. Mig-21Bis was initiative driven mainly by Beczl. F-14/Viggen/Corsair/Aircraft Carrier are products for some 3-4 years to publish and support iin my opinion. Just look how much support does the Mig-21 need as a relatively simple aircraft compared to an immensely more complex F-14 with RIO. The current situation is quite sad for Eastern aircraft as there seems to be none officially being developed.

[Drag0nWIng]

well, maybe we has no possible to play estern 2/3 gen fighter in near future.

but it's a wishlist thread, no matter if it come true or not. LOL

[MAD-MM]

And even this is a wish Thread every day poping 2 new threads up, but you see sometimes ED is listning, when no one is concern about eastern Aircraft/Helos you never see one.

F-18 was not devloped out from the dust just for Fun while no one is buying it after release. Hopefully see one day MIG-23 MLD and MI-24.

[Jaktaz]

And even this is a wish Thread every day poping 2 new threads up, but you see sometimes ED is listning, when no one is concern about eastern Aircraft/Helos you never see one.

F-18 was not devloped out from the dust just for Fun while no one is buying it after release. Hopefully see one day MIG-23 MLD and MI-24.

 

I believe Mi-24 is a reality

[Wings_Of_Liberty]

Mig23ML/MLD prefer,but Mig25/Mig31 would be better

[shab249]

Mig23ML/MLD prefer,but Mig25/Mig31 would be better

Na the mig 25 is boring it cant go over then 3G's and shoots from 100km away so i prefer the mig-23 in that case

BUT PLEASE MAKE F-4 OR SU-22

 

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[Kev2go]

we also need the F4 phantom, It fought Mig21's anyways, but especially if a mig23 gets added, since Mig23 was really just meant to be a an answer against american 3rd generation, and not really competitive against 4th generation designs.

[jmijnen]

You boys are all getting ahead of yourselfes! Let the gentlemen finish their current products first!

[Angelthunder]

I'm gonna go with a hunch and say LN's fourth jet will be the Mig-23ML since some other third party already called dibs on the model before Razbam could make one themselves.:music_whistling:

[Redglyph]

Haha, can't believe this thread is back on the surface now, of all times. Go fly this Viggen, shoo! :D

 

Anyway, on topic. At the risk of having a few flames, my personal opinion on the Mig-23 is that this was an awful aircraft on almost every level. It was unstable, unreliable, difficult to maintain and awkward to fight with. So definitely not this one.

 

I have no idea on the Su-22.

 

There's plenty of other interesting choices though, an F-117 would be something, so would be the F-4 (if that's not already in the works somewhere?). Or an F-16, which is dearly missed (even if supposedly planned for an uncertain future). Or, to stay on the continent, an Me-262!

[probad]

haha you think the me262 is not a temperamental aircraft

[Kev2go]

Haha, can't believe this thread is back on the surface now, of all times. Go fly this Viggen, shoo! :D

 

Anyway, on topic. At the risk of having a few flames, my personal opinion on the Mig-23 is that this was an awful aircraft on almost every level. It was unstable, unreliable, difficult to maintain and awkward to fight with. So definitely not this one.

 

I have no idea on the Su-22.

 

There's plenty of other interesting choices though, an F-117 would be something, so would be the F-4 (if that's not already in the works somewhere?). Or an F-16, which is dearly missed (even if supposedly planned for an uncertain future). Or, to stay on the continent, an Me-262!

 

 

Mig23 is still a historically signification aircraft. It bridges the gap between the Mig21 and 4th generation eastern aircraft.

 

It wasnt most pilot friendly aircraft ( in terms of Cockpit switchology), I agree. but it is significant to Russia and representing Warpact/ export users of the aircraft during the cold war. its a proper 3rd generation eastern aircraft.

 

While i really want an F-4E , i think Mig23 definitely has a place in DCS, and its certainly a module i would buy, despite like all aviation enthusiasts having my preferences.

[Dudikoff]

It wasnt most pilot friendly aircraft ( in terms of Cockpit switchology), I agree. but it is significant to Russia and representing Warpact/ export users of the aircraft during the cold war. its a proper 3rd generation eastern aircraft.

 

I don't think the later variants were that much worse than e.g. MiG-29 in this regard, except that you had the extra task of handling the wings position manually. But, since it wasn't really a dogfighter, that shouldn't cause much strain in most cases.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Dudikoff

[Redglyph]

I don't deny the Flogger was significant :)

 

haha you think the me262 is not a temperamental aircraft

 

It's probably a bit of a psycho aircraft, for sure :D

[shab249]

I don't think the later variants were that much worse than e.g. MiG-29 in this regard, except that you had the extra task of handling the wings position manually. But, since it wasn't really a dogfighter, that shouldn't cause much strain in most cases.

Even the first varients of the mig 21 had automatic engine cone positioning why the 23 didnt had the same thing for the wings?

 

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[Kev2go]

I don't think the later variants were that much worse than e.g. MiG-29 in this regard, except that you had the extra task of handling the wings position manually. But, since it wasn't really a dogfighter, that shouldn't cause much strain in most cases.

 

depsnding on the version. t. The MLD, along with its avionics suite upgrades, also reduced the weight of the airframe. if The pilot knew how to manually manipulate the variable wings, it would be a relatively nimble fighter, for its size. It would be better if it actually had a automated variable sweep wings, to help reduce the workload.

 

 

even the ML/MLA should have a better sustained turnrate then the F4 phantom. In combat it even could give Mirage F1s a run for thier money. So even if its not an ideal dogfighter it is not a flying brick by any means, Only the early Mig23M series would kinda fit into that bill.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Kev2go

[Coyote Duster]

Someone want to enlighten me with all this hubub on the mig-23? I'm leaning more towards a phantom.

[Kev2go]

Someone want to enlighten me with all this hubub on the mig-23? I'm leaning more towards a phantom.

 

because it was a 3rd generation Soviet fighter? a counterpart to Design like the Mirage F1, and to a extent the Phantom.

 

Ultiamtely a Mig23 will be less problematic to make, since its only single seat, and Doesnt have a Air to ground Radar

[shab249]

because it was a 3rd generation Soviet fighter? a counterpart to Design like the Mirage F1, and to a extent the Phantom.

 

Ultiamtely a Mig23 will be less problematic to make, since its only single seat, and Doesnt have a Air to ground Radar

But the coclit is very similar to the 21 so i prefer a the F-4E and they already solved the 2 cockpits problem in the F-14

 

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[Kev2go]

But the coclit is very similar to the 21 so i prefer a the F-4E and they already solved the 2 cockpits problem in the F-14

 

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So those are your preferences, but i there e those like myself that enjoy flying all sorts of aircraft.it is similar, because its a soviet aircraft ,and a sucessor to the Mig21. but its definitely more capable then Mig21Bis. instead of a gunsight, a Mig23 ML/MLA would have a HUD, a longer range radar, with look down shoot down capabilities( obviously still limited compared to 4th generation radars), and medium range R23 and R24 SARH missiles. ( so comparable to the Aim7E and Aim7F respectively), plus its still cool because it has variable Swept Wings.

 

 

TBH It doesnt matter which gets added first. Because hoenstly one shouldnt have one without the others. ( same way F5E was developed by BSt in Response to have a comparable counterpart to the 21Bis)

 

 

I know leatherneck can make a 2 seater( Even Ed made a 2 seater, L39 trainer) but it still more complex, due to the Radar, related avoincs being operated by the backseater, and requires more time to develop than a single seat aircraft. a Mig23 could be developed faster than an F4.

 

It is all specultain anyhow because we dont even know if the other 3rd party in question that wanted to make the Mig23 before RAZBAM was leatherneck to begin with. The claims that the liscense was denied beause 1 developer already has it reserved is a rumor on its own. Razbam simply made the mistake of getting the hype going before they had obtained a developmental Liscense From ED to make the Mig23 MLA. Moral of the Story, Get license first, then Hype train / development reveal second. If i recall correctly Razbam acknowledged this mistake. Though i wouldn't judge too hard since it came from the new team they had acquired and just integrated.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Kev2go

[Deadpoetic6]

Mig-23 is ugly

 

Su-22 is sexyy

 

SU-22 !!!!