F-14 HUD symbology

[BlackLion213]

Not to mention the Engine the F401 base design was taken from was problematic for the Airforce on multiple jets and showed the same problems on the Grumman Prototype.

 

The TF30 was an awesome engine, ........ For the F-111

 

They Selected the new engine in 79, they didnt get it till like 84.

 

Agreed. :)

 

Though the first F110 engines arrived in Oceana with VF-101 in 1986. I think 1984 was when the budget was approved to integrate the F110 into the fleet prior to the F-14D. Actually, I think the final approval to use the F110 for even the F-14D was decided in 1984 (RADM Gilchrist discusses this in his book IIRC). The Navy decided which engine, but Congress was yet to approve the funds for the F110.

 

-Nick

 

PS -

the GE engines jumped like 28 kN at altittude.

:huh: - just not sure what that means, I hit my knowledge barrier. Edited September 22, 2016 by BlackLion213

[SkateZilla]

Agreed. :)

 

Though the first F110 engines arrived in Oceana with VF-101 in 1986. I think 1984 was when the budget was approved to integrate the F110 into the fleet prior to the F-14D. Actually, I think the final approval to use the F110 for even the F-14D was decided in 1984 (RADM Gilchrist discusses this in his book IIRC). The Navy decided which engine, but Congress was yet to approve the funds for the F110.

 

-Nick

 

PS - :huh: - just not sure what that means, I hit my knowledge barrier.

 

VX4 had them before we did. PMTC also had them in 88, NATC had them in 87, VF101 was the first Squadron after test Sqns to get the A+/B

 

79 the F-1010-X was selected.

They were installed on the old B prototype (The former F401 test bed, BuNos 157986)

84 is when Grumman was awarded a contract to use the GE Engines and also awarded a co tract to make other significant upgrades,

86 First Aircraft from Block 145 flew

87 Full production began.

87 test sqns started receiving

88 fleet sqns started recieving.

 

edit

The engines dont jump 27kn at altitude they jump at mach.9 from 104k to 134kN.

Edited September 22, 2016 by SkateZilla

[Nerd1000]

 

PS - :huh: - just not sure what that means, I hit my knowledge barrier.

GE = General Electric

 

kN = Kilonewton. The Newton (N) is a unit of force- 1N accelerates 1kg at 1m/s^2

[BlackLion213]

The engines dont jump 27kn at altitude they jump at mach.9 from 104k to 134kN.

 

That makes sense.

 

GE = General Electric

 

kN = Kilonewton. The Newton (N) is a unit of force- 1N accelerates 1kg at 1m/s^2

 

Familiar with Newtons, just wondering what kN stood for in this context. :)

 

-Nick

[Darkbrotherhood7]

I think it was all about the budget and perspective of the politicians controlling the budget. The F-14 project was way over it's budget cap in the early 70s and they had to cut something. The advanced engine program was the biggest piece and the most logical thing to cut from the layman's perspective.

 

Plus, those making these decisions don't really understand the issues with the TF30. Many saw the F-14A's aero performance (capable of mach 2.4 in testing with untrimmed engines) and figured it was plenty fast - why would you need a better engine? Plus, as you mentioned, the F100 core (with the F401) was having lots of major reliability issues as well - it didn't look like a better option at first.

 

These reliability issues and ACM limitations were hard to articulate to the politicians - meaning its hard to gather resources for the program. I think Secretary of the Navy Lehman was the first to lay it out in easy to understand terms: "The TF30 is a terrible engine, this is the worst airframe-engine mis-match in US Navy history!" I guess that finally got someone's attention and the first F-14A+ arrived a couple years later.

 

-Nick

 

I totally agree, sadly it still affecting most of the current aircraft projects.

 

P.S:

I made an article few days ago about the ST-21 and AST-21 concepts, it is in Portuguese, but I'm considering to translate it to English and probably post here. :)

[Dudikoff]

The retirement date was originally 2010. The issue wasn't simply one of delays to Sparrowhawk integration, but of two converging tables- a program that needed more time than expected, on a platform that was removed from service four years earlier than intended.

 

You're right, completely forgot about that (I remember being said when they kept pushing the date forward 2010 -> 2008 -> 2006).

 

Since before the Sparrowhawk HUD program was started, the plan seems to have been to keep both the B's and D's till 2010 still, the upgrades makes sense.

 

"Transcript of the Tuesday, February 20, 1996, 1:30PM DoD News Briefing by Kenneth H. Bacon, ATSD-PA:

 

Q: Just for context. How many F-14s are there left? [Laughter] Seriously though, I mean, there's a significant percentage of the fleet has been..., the squadrons have been lost in the 90's. Does it reach a point where the Navy has to look at a successor plane to replenish its --

 

A: Well, it has a successor plane. The successor plane is basically the F-18. There are 212 F-14As. There are 79 F-14Bs and 47 F-14Ds. Now, the F-14As are being replaced. They're either being modernized or they're being flat out replaced by other planes, and they will be out of service by 2004 under the current program and the F-14Bs and Ds will be out by 2010 according to current plans. And they're being replaced primarily by F-18s. They are about 1,200 F-18s in the Navy now. Yes, Bob?"

 

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/1996/t022096_t0220asd.html

[Xenovia]

i gotta ask, for the F-14B, will the HUD be just as laggy as the F-14A HUD?

[VTJS17_Fire]

For upgrade questions of all Tomcat versions, I can recommend the magazine special "F-14 Bombcat" by Key Publishing. They wrote in round about 100 pages about the upgrade process after ODS from the A, A+ and B version to the finally D version (I know, we only get the B). A good read.

 

 

 

Regarding the B-model for DCS: Will we get the targeting pod and GBUs, as well?

 

According to the magazine, B versions were hot wired for the targeting pod and for delivering GBU-12/16. But the system couldn't connected to the old (analog) systems (Radar, INS).

[StandingCow]

i gotta ask, for the F-14B, will the HUD be just as laggy as the F-14A HUD?

 

I swear I saw somewhere that Cobra said they are the same hud, so yea.

 

Edit: found it: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2905295&postcount=71

[probad]

Not sure when the F-14 got an increased HUD refresh rate and wether we'll see this for the F-14B?

Yeah I'm aware of the HUD itself, I was just wondering wether perhaps there had been an electronics update in between the A and the B such as new computer hardware that increased the HUD refresh rate (i.e. same HUD just a faster computer processing the attitude data etc)

 

What is the B's HUD? cause all iv'e seen is that the F-14B uses the sparrow HUD

B HUD is identical to A.

i gotta ask, for the F-14B, will the HUD be just as laggy as the F-14A HUD?

 

lmao the denial is real

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by probad

[Tirak]

 

Regarding the B-model for DCS: Will we get the targeting pod and GBUs, as well?

 

We don't know, and Cobra ain't talkin'.

[Pocket Sized]

In all of the HUD footage I've seen I can't tell what the A-A gun pipper looks like. I think it might be a diamond but it also looks like that might be the square that follows the locked target.

 

Also, is the gun solution purely radar guided (like the F-15) or does it use the radar + INS like the Mirage?

[myHelljumper]

radar + INS like the Mirage?

 

Wot ? Can you explain how does the mirage use the INS to get a gun solution ?

[flashben]

Will the F14 A & B get a higher refresh rate HUD as a special option? (like the nosewheel steering option for the MiG21Bis)

[Donut]

Will the F14 A & B get a higher refresh rate HUD as a special option? (like the nosewheel steering option for the MiG21Bis)

 

The HUD will likely be even worse.

We haven't implemented some of the imprecision in the instrument during more demanding maneouvers.

 

It's possible, if people are getting motionsick, that we implement options to alleviate this in some way. That's a decision we can make in the future!

 

Here's a real HUD tape to compare to:

 

 

Personally, I don't think the refresh rate is that bad. Just like learning any new aircraft, it will be something to adjust to and will probably not even be an issue once proficient with the F-14.

 

 

Back to the original topic of this post...I cannot find any sort of diagram that labels the original HUD or shows the different modes. I have searched everywhere and all I can come up with is information for the SparrowHawk HUD.

[Wingmate]

Back to the original topic of this post...I cannot find any sort of diagram that labels the original HUD or shows the different modes. I have searched everywhere and all I can come up with is information for the SparrowHawk HUD.

 

If you have a copy or can find one of NAVAIR 01-F14AAP-1 chapter 22 has lots of diagrams for the HUD and VDI in the different modes.

[probad]

will probably not even be an issue once proficient with the F-14.

it most certainly shouldnt even be an issue considering how many pilots succeeded with it over its ~30 year lifespan.

[Donut]

If you have a copy or can find one of NAVAIR 01-F14AAP-1 chapter 22 has lots of diagrams for the HUD and VDI in the different modes.

 

Thanks for the tip! Got it! All the info I was looking for is there and so much more. I have some reading to do!

 

Here is where I got the manual if anyone else is interested.

http://www.drydensims.com/free-cool-stuff.html

[Hummingbird]

And over half dozen more lost to flat spins that were a result of a compressor stall w/ the temperamental engines.

 

The Flat Spin Recovery Research Program,

Which ate up 78 Million Dollars a bunch of Experimental Tech, and years, only to have that program axed,

 

Finally was solved by a Simple CoG Shift tested by a Tomcat Pilot first in the simulator, then in real life. And when he asked why they never tested it before, the reply was "we ran out of funding".

 

My Father was an AE1 for VF-101 during the Tomcat Reign... Even the ground Crews hated the TF-30s.

 

Hmm... AFAIK the F-14 was one of or the most tested aircraft in USN history.

[Hummingbird]

lmao the denial is real

 

 

What in the world are you on about?

[Xenovia]

I swear I saw somewhere that Cobra said they are the same hud, so yea.

 

Edit: found it: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2905295&postcount=71

 

i know its the same HUD, im just wondering if Grumman improved the F-14B's HUD refresh rate

[Hummingbird]

i know its the same HUD, im just wondering if Grumman improved the F-14B's HUD refresh rate

 

You're not the only one, but apparently that's a sin to some people.

 

Wether the F-14 saw any updates to its electronics from the A model to the B model is a question I have as well as I can't find an answer for that atm. Either way the refresh rate doesn't really bother me, I'm just curious.

 

That having been said, and I think it has been mentioned already, the other modern aircraft we have ingame atm probably had similar refresh rates at the time, it's just not simulated ingame atm.

[punk]

 

Regarding the B-model for DCS: Will we get the targeting pod and GBUs, as well?

 

According to the magazine, B versions were hot wired for the targeting pod and for delivering GBU-12/16. But the system couldn't connected to the old (analog) systems (Radar, INS).

 

The answer is on their homepage just above Systems Fidelity: http://www.leatherneck-sim.com/f14/

 

"Ground Attack capability will be included in the -B Tomcat, however the exact sensor package and ordinance available is yet to be decided. It is possible that we will expand the available ordinance or equipment after release to encompass more of the F-14’s later capability."

 

Salute,

Punk

[Hummingbird]

Btw regarding the F-14 HUD refrest rate, it seems as though it's only slow in one plane, in roll it seems rather fluid:

PzL7RI2-JZ8

[Xenovia]

hmm, interesting