Introducing the VKB-Sim ‘Modern Combat Grip’ (MCG)

[rajdary]

Cool, waiting for it!

[StandingCow]

According to VKB HQ, there will be plenty of supply for the worldwide release of the MCG. :)

 

Excellent! Between this and the hornet release... I can barely contain my hype. :thumbup:

[dburne]

Indeed the pics look great!

 

Got my new Gunfighter with extension kit here still in the box by my side waiting on this MCG Pro Grip.

 

Hoping all the testing with the new molds go well on first round!

Edited July 15, 2017 by dburne

[Sokol1_br]

Well, now can be said: we have "Next Gen" joysticks. :)

[MTFDarkEagle]

Question: is it (going to be) possible to make the WH grip compatible with the Gunfighter?

[Mars Exulte]

There are adapter kits I believe, yes

[*Rage*]

Looks good!

[rrohde]

Question: is it (going to be) possible to make the WH grip compatible with the Gunfighter?

 

That's possible, correct.

[Chic]

I'm planning to attach the MCG to Baur's BRD-N cyclic base (adapted for WH/TM compatibility ). I therefore need a TM adapter for the MCG.

Will this adapter add much length to the grip?

Edited July 16, 2017 by Chic

[Fri13]

I on the market for a new HOTAS.... And I have two choices where I go from current Logitech G940 (great, still works perfectly etc after years, but would like to have something else as secondary).

 

Either I get something classical/famous, the CH Products Fighterstick + Throttle + Pedals.

Or then I get this VKB stick, but haven't done a good search yet what I need to buy to get Modern Combat Pro grip attached and then what are the throttle choices for it (like bind it with the CH throttle and pedals) or what kind will be the VKB own throttle set when it gets announced...

 

Everytime I look the HOTAS market I get furious as there is not a single FB joystick since G940 appeared on the market. And I would so much love to see VKB to release a new base that would have some stronger FB motors and accuracy, but I sometimes read that the FB ABI is behind Microsoft IP that no one can't do FB without acquiring licenses for it...

 

This Modern Combat grip looks so amazing and seems to have enough buttons and hats that it can be well used with almost anything.

 

It as well amazes that now when the helicopter simulations are starting to get more widely available, there is no good collective as ready product, a stick with the box etc. So best thing is just to make one by itself.

[WindyTX]

Honestly I think the Jetseat is better feedback as Aircraft sticks dont have FFB in real life. Ignoring the stick shaker which is not in Fighters the Aircraft frame gives you the feedback which the Jetseat simulates.

So if you cant get a ffb stick I would try a Jetseat its relatively cheap and might give you what you miss from the stick.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Edited July 16, 2017 by WindyTX

[BigDuke6ixx]

Honestly I think the Jetseat is better feedback as Aircraft sticks dont have FFB in real life. Ignoring the stick shaker which is not in Fighters the Aircraft frame gives you the feedback which the Jetseat simulates.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

I agree with you, but I just wish from proper trim.

[heloguy]

I'm planning to attach the MCG to Baur's BRD-N cyclic base (adapted for WH/TM compatibility ). I therefore need a TM adapter for the MCG.

Will this adapter add much length to the grip?

 

Chic, they have a version of the MCG that is made especially for TM products (and will work plug-and-play with the BRD-N). It doesn't have all the buttons and functionality of the MCG Pro, but that's because the Warthog is limited to 18 buttons (I think). Either way, the WH can't handle as many buttons as VKB products.

 

If you get the version I linked below, like I said, it's plug-and-play, no adapter required.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-sim-mcg-tm

 

Edit: Well, it's more than 18, since it says 23 on their description. Either way, the MCG-Pro won't be compatible with TM products because it has too many buttons.

[Chic]

Chic, they have a version of the MCG that is made especially for TM products (and will work plug-and-play with the BRD-N). It doesn't have all the buttons and functionality of the MCG Pro, but that's because the Warthog is limited to 18 buttons (I think). Either way, the WH can't handle as many buttons as VKB products.

 

If you get the version I linked below, like I said, it's plug-and-play, no adapter required.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-sim-mcg-tm

 

Edit: Well, it's more than 18, since it says 23 on their description. Either way, the MCG-Pro won't be compatible with TM products because it has too many buttons.

 

 

Heloguy, thanks for the lead.

I only do helis so I wont miss the Pro features.

Plug and play without adapter more than makes up for it.

Thanks again.

[Sokol1_br]

..haven't done a good search yet what I need to buy to get Modern Combat Pro grip attached

 

The logical option is VKB Gunfighter (or even Gladiator PRO) base - since the other option (TmW) is mechanically inferior.

 

...and then what are the throttle choices for it (like bind it with the CH throttle and pedals) or what kind will be the VKB own throttle set when it gets announced...

 

For modern flight games (don't know about "space" games) any brand throttle that can be used standalone (like CH PRO Throttle) can be used with any brand joystick.

VKB eventually will release a "modern combat throttle", probable until the "end of year" or after Chinese New Year - what came first. :)

 

... see VKB to release a new base that would have some stronger FB motors and accuracy, but I sometimes read that the FB ABI is behind Microsoft IP that no one can't do FB without acquiring licenses for it...

 

Dream is free - but don't put much hope in this. :)

[Sokol1_br]

Warthog is limited to 18 buttons ...

Edit: Well, it's more than 18, since it says 23 on their description.

 

Is 19 momentary buttons + POV HAT, that is 4 special buttons - firmware combine two near pressed simultaneous as "virtual buttons" diagonals, so = 23 physical buttons. :joystick:

[WindyTX]

I wonder if someone could make a trimming stick without needing ffb patent permission. So when you trim the stick would hold position like real life.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[BigDuke6ixx]

I wonder if someone could make a trimming stick without needing ffb patent permission. So when you trim the stick would hold position like real life.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

Shouldn't be a problem, you only need two servos acting on the gimbal.

[rrohde]

I'm planning to attach the MCG to Baur's BRD-N cyclic base (adapted for WH/TM compatibility ). I therefore need a TM adapter for the MCG.

Will this adapter add much length to the grip?

 

The MCG-TM should work - at least from the connectivity standpoint, without requiring an adapter.

[Chic]

The MCG-TM should work - at least from the connectivity standpoint, without requiring an adapter.

Got it. Thanks

[Ranma13]

Shouldn't be a problem, you only need two servos acting on the gimbal.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple, even without the patent issue. Servos won't work because they're too weak, too noisy, and too notchy to serve as FFB motors. For this, you will either need large direct drive DC motors, or smaller motors that uses gearing to step up the force. In order to use DC motors, you'll also need to up the wattage and have circuitry to provide enough power.

 

The hardware is the simple part though. Force feedback is implemented as messages sent to the joystick, with parameters such as ramp time, attack time, and fade time. It's up to the joystick's firmware though to implement these effects. For example, a message is sent to the joystick to do a sawtooth effect with a magnitude of 50%. It's then up to the joystick to implement this effect, which includes tasks such as controlling the voltage to the motors so that the effect is smooth and not jumpy, measuring the position of the joystick to make sure that it's reached the correct position, and taking into account the limits of the joystick travel so as to not burn out or break the motors. Add to that the dozen or so effects that need to be implemented, and it's quite a challenge just on the software side.

[Pfeil]

I wonder if someone could make a trimming stick without needing ffb patent permission. So when you trim the stick would hold position like real life.

Shouldn't be a problem, you only need two servos acting on the gimbal.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple, even without the patent issue. Servos won't work because they're too weak, too noisy, and too notchy to serve as FFB motors.

I believe what WindyTX is implying is a non-FFB implementation, where rather than relaying control surface forces through force feedback, the stick is merely held in place. This would function like most real-life helicopter cyclic sticks, by holding the stick at a position set by the user, which can be adjusted on-the-fly, with a spring effect as it is moved away from that position. I.E. force trim.

 

This would mainly(perhaps only) be useful to helicopter pilots, but is from a software perspective much simpler to implement(and may indeed not violate FFB patents).

[Ranma13]

I believe what WindyTX is implying is a non-FFB implementation, where rather than relaying control surface forces through force feedback, the stick is merely held in place. This would function like most real-life helicopter cyclic sticks, by holding the stick at a position set by the user, which can be adjusted on-the-fly, with a spring effect as it is moved away from that position. I.E. force trim.

 

This would mainly(perhaps only) be useful to helicopter pilots, but is from a software perspective much simpler to implement(and may indeed not violate FFB patents).

 

Oh I see. Yeah, that would be significantly easier and mostly a hardware issue (though some software is still needed, but nowhere as complex as a full FFB implementation). I would love to see something like that, as I only fly heli's.

[rrohde]

Courtesy of VKB HQ - a little glimpse at one of the first pre-production units while testing:

 

[dburne]

:thumbup:

 

Bring it on baby!