Mirage Status

[TomCatMucDe]

wow, that is infact some toatal bullshit, when you go indepth with the viggen you will see alot of small bugs, and by alot i mean alot.

ther are also gamebraking navsystem bugs you cant even fly for 2h multiply sorties without breaking the viggen. and its ok because its early acess and bugs gets fixed very fast.

 

 

 

The systems are complete. The problem is not that some things break because of ED's update. The problem with the Mirage is that it is left unfinished. The CCM and the radar were behaving wrongly for more than a year. The armament system was fantasy implementation and was not correct. But it was fine cause the Mirage was being development and it's normal to have priorities in implementing and correcting things. Unfortunately, the Mirage is out of beta with this state and the work moved to the Harrier.

 

 

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[Slims]

wow, that is infact some toatal bullshit, when you go indepth with the viggen you will see alot of small bugs, and by alot i mean alot.

there are also gamebraking navsystem bugs you cant even fly for 2h multiply sorties without breaking the viggen. and its ok because its early acess and bugs gets fixed very fast.

 

But i have to say, there were not half of the gambraking bugs in the mirage than in the viggen at the relaese. game braking bug for me is that im not able to do my mission. not actually crashing dcs

 

You sure you played mirage beta as released because i think you haven`t. Remember when screen would turn black when rebinding keys? Or Dcs fatal crashed at random points when turning radar on. Or being randomly disconnected from online play for whatever reason whenever flying online, oh man and so many more crashed when flying mirage.... Viggen buggs are nothing, i have not gotten on crash flying viggen, yes it has some buggs rearming bugs etc but again comparing a module released for 19 months with one released for 5 months is not fair. And also i reiterate there are so many buggs in m2k that have been plaguing the mirage since launch and are not being fixed.

[fjacobsen]

I just wonder if they really think I would buy the pre-release Harrier if they still not has showed that they are able to complete a M2000C.

 

Also INS drift, which has been working on the Viggen almosg since day 1, still has not been fixed on the M2000C after such a long developement time.

 

It's time to take paying customers, alpha, beta or relase versions, serious.

Edited July 7, 2017 by fjacobsen

[TomCatMucDe]

I just wonder if they feqlly think I would buy the pre-release Harrier if theybstill not has showed hhat they are able to complete a M2000C.

 

Also INS drift, which has been working on the Viggen almosg since day 1, still has not been fixed on the M2000C after such a long developement time.

 

It's time to take paying customers, alpha, beta or relase versions, serious.

 

 

 

This !

 

 

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[Joni]

I just wonder if they really think I would buy the pre-release Harrier if they still not has showed that they are able to complete a M2000C.

 

Also INS drift, which has been working on the Viggen almosg since day 1, still has not been fixed on the M2000C after such a long developement time.

 

It's time to take paying customers, alpha, beta or relase versions, serious.

 

That is not exclusive for Razbam. ED does the same thing, launching half finished products at retail price.

 

I think it's a common thing in the sim world. Even the A-10C after almost a decade still has bugs like the LASTE wind correction (it never worked, like some none real pilots think).

 

I also think the DCS platform encourages this, having tons of modules and not even one of them is 100% finished.

 

Dont get me wrong (those who will jump at my throat), I love DCS and will keep using it all my life if it's still there. But I wont stop saying what I feel, even if I buy their products.

[amalahama]

I used to be disappointed with Leatherneck due to the low quality Mig-21 and bugs still to be resolved, and hopeful with RAZBAM with the Mirage getting a good patch pace.

 

After Viggen (almost feature complete since day 0, just polishing bugs) and the disappointment of RAZBAM being unable (or unwilling) to finish the Mirage, the tables have turned.

 

So, totally aligned with TomCatMucDe and similar feelings around this post.

 

Regards!

[dimitrischal]

That is not exclusive for Razbam. ED does the same thing, launching half finished products at retail price.

 

I think it's a common thing in the sim world. Even the A-10C after almost a decade still has bugs like the LASTE wind correction (it never worked, like some none real pilots think).

 

I also think the DCS platform encourages this, having tons of modules and not even one of them is 100% finished.

 

Dont get me wrong (those who will jump at my throat), I love DCS and will keep using it all my life if it's still there. But I wont stop saying what I feel, even if I buy their products.

 

You are still missing the point.

If base code changes all the time modules based on said code will never be completely finished.

4gen stuff like the mirage will be most affected by changes due to avionics complexity.

 

When the possibility of fixing something to have it messed up again after x amount of time is certain independent developers won't work on anything until base code is stabilized enough.

 

This is a niche market not a blockbuster game with huge amounts of resources.

 

When ed release the new dm, the new missile physics, ground radar, updated ecm and cm we will see big improvements in a brief period of time. Instead however they seem to have spend considerable amount of time to make ww2 a thing leaving more modern stuff behind. Logical though as new content brings cash updates to base code don't.

 

I am not a razbam fanboy but I can see that the economics of the whole situation are bleak. They also need to release new content for income even at the cost of making their previous product feel neglected.

[amalahama]

I am not a razbam fanboy but I can see that the economics of the whole situation are bleak. They also need to release new content for income even at the cost of making their previous product feel neglected.

 

Poor customer satisfaction doesn't brings more revenues. This is learnt the first day on any business school.

 

Regards!

[dimitrischal]

Poor customer satisfaction doesn't brings more revenues. This is learnt the first day on any business school.

 

Regards!

 

We don't know the numbers of happy vs unhappy customers. A very vocal group of guys in a forum means nothing for the whole picture.

[amalahama]

We don't know the numbers of happy vs unhappy customers. A very vocal group of guys in a forum means nothing for the whole picture.

 

Well, this post is 24 pages long now and I see more and more unhappy customers complaining and asking for a clear roadmap for the Mirage, receiving a total lack of feedback from RAZBAM . But anyway, my post was referring to those who see as valid a business model based on leaving products unfinished in search for new cash incomes.

 

Regards!

Edited July 8, 2017 by amalahama

[WinterH]

Well not every unhappy customers are vocal, I've called the Mirage a total loss about a year ago and moved on myself :).

 

Still hoping to give Razbam another chance because their future line up has many things I am very, very interested in. Fingers crossed I guess :).

 

I'm sure Mirage sold just fine because "oooh shniey! 4th gen, muh modern fightorz!", and many are very satisfied because of mostly that :)

[Slims]

You are still missing the point.

If base code changes all the time modules based on said code will never be completely finished.

4gen stuff like the mirage will be most affected by changes due to avionics complexity.

 

When the possibility of fixing something to have it messed up again after x amount of time is certain independent developers won't work on anything until base code is stabilized enough.

 

This is a niche market not a blockbuster game with huge amounts of resources.

 

This is totally wrong and misleading.

First of all 1.5 has no changed source code, all module are working on 1.5 even the fc3 aircraft for years and none have these issues.

Secondly even if the source code has somehow changed you cannot damage something that is not and was not ever modeled like all the stuff people are saying that are MISSING from the m2k.

And thirdly as state 100 times in this thread there are BUGGS in the mirage from day one of the release of this module on the store page, that have not been addressed until now and is becoming increasingly unclear if anyone wants to loose time and fix them.

If the changing source code is the issue HOW can razbam focus on getting harrier out to pre-sell ? Isn`t the harrier programed on the same code as mirage ?!?

I understand that the platform is evolving it is something exciting and absolutely fantastic. I love DCS for this. I accept that some things can get broken along the way and it takes time to get fixed, see lightning issues, reflections, exploding rearmament for viggen, etc. BUT this module is missing a lot of systems, some are coded wrong from the release, some stuff are placeholders and with all of this, the focus of razbam is on getting another module out the door.

There at least should be a post made by the dev`s too silence all the unhappy customers with a road-map, so at least we understand what will change for the mirage in the coming months. As it is right now: DM - ED`s job (are we to expect ED to model subsystems in mirage and model how the aircraft flies with damaged modules ?); Missing systems ( implementation of air to ground radar - ED`s job ? ); Fixing radar (Ed`s Job? ); etc. We know nothing, everything is pure speculation and all of this leads to these discussions that are not constructive.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Slims

[Hamilton]

And thirdly as state 100 times in this thread there are BUGGS in the mirage from day one of the release of this module on the store page, that have not been addressed until now and is becoming increasingly unclear if anyone wants to loose time and fix them.

If the changing source code is the issue HOW can razbam focus on getting harrier out to pre-sell ? Isn`t the harrier programed on the same code as mirage ?!?

 

 

Exactly! I´m saying this for a long time here but some guys cannot see it or don´t want to see those facts,they keep saying "that´s a great module,they have fun with it" OK, me too. But YES, there are issues to be solved and, as Slims said, it is becoming increasingly unclear if anyone wants to loose time and fix them.

[iVVChewy9141VVi]

DCS is changes so much. I doubt they abandoned it. They are waiting for the Ground radar to get that in there.

 

This is still a beautiful bird with a lot of features. You have modules like the hawk that have problems and they are working on it. Complaining will not get it out faster. The developers know you want fixes and they are fixing things.

[jojo]

Missing systems ( implementation of air to ground radar - ED`s job ? )

Yes, it's ED's job to provide the tools to allow 3rd party studio to make an AG radar. Even the showcase of ED Hornet doesn't show any AG radar.

 

Leatherneck found a work around for AG radar ? Good for them, AJS-37 is a dedicated AG fighter, there would be no AJS-37 without it.

 

But on Mirage 2000 C RDI, the AG map and terrain avoidance are only used for navigation. So it doesn't worth it to waste time to code a workaround for a dedicated fighter/ interceptor with AG task as secondary mission.

 

Flanker 2.0 didn't have AG radar, and it has never been fixed in 18 years !!!

You wan't an AG radar ? Go cry after ED !

 

Now this thread is a total mess, nobody is talking about the module or real Mirage 2000, but everyone is arguing about everyone else opinion...

[TomCatMucDe]

Yes, it's ED's job to provide the tools to allow 3rd party studio to make an AG radar. Even the showcase of ED Hornet doesn't show any AG radar.

 

Leatherneck found a work around for AG radar ? Good for them, AJS-37 is a dedicated AG fighter, there would be no AJS-37 without it.

 

But on Mirage 2000 C RDI, the AG map and terrain avoidance are only used for navigation. So it doesn't worth it to waste time to code a workaround for a dedicated fighter/ interceptor with AG task as secondary mission.

 

Flanker 2.0 didn't have AG radar, and it has never been fixed in 18 years !!!

You wan't an AG radar ? Go cry after ED !

 

Now this thread is a total mess, nobody is talking about the module or real Mirage 2000, but everyone is arguing about everyone else opinion...

 

 

 

Forget about the AG radar. What about the other missing systems that have nothing to do with ED ?

That's the Mirage status and it's spot on topic.

 

 

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[dimitrischal]

Razbam have said they are working on things. Fm is being worked on e.g.

You can't demand things and bitch to get them now. Razbam are the only team to have a 4 gen fighter out. If there were 3 or 4 and all of them were bug free or nearly bug free I would complain too.

But we have 2 trainers years in the making with nothing to show for it and the only complete complex ac is an old d.o.d contract that is being worked on for years so chill. It may not be so easy as you think, or cheap.

Also I said multiple times 1.5 is pretty much obsolete. Maybe things are slowing down for a major 2.x release in the near future. Which might include the harrier. Nobody said it would release in 1.5.

[jojo]

Forget about the AG radar. What about the other missing systems that have nothing to do with ED ?

That's the Mirage status and it's spot on topic.

 

 

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Cool, now we can argue about what is a system or not. Because from my point of view, all systems are here, but they need debugging and improvement.

 

You can start, take off, navigate, edit flight plan, destroy AA or AG targets, land using AP with ILS capture and shut down.

It's better for now to disable the drift since INS update isn't satisfactory. But the INS drift doesn't seem to miss to people in other modules.

The HUD ILS isn't good enough (including synthetic runway), but you can use ADI needles (like real pilot's are doing by the way).

 

So what aircraft system is missing ?

[Esac_mirmidon]

The pilot's brain in some cases.

 

PD: Its only a joke. Dont start shooting Magics on me. XDD

Edited July 8, 2017 by Esac_mirmidon

[myHelljumper]

Cool, now we can argue about what is a system or not. Because from my point of view, all systems are here, but they need debugging and improvement.

 

You can start, take off, navigate, edit flight plan, destroy AA or AG targets, land using AP with ILS capture and shut down.

It's better for now to disable the drift since INS update isn't satisfactory. But the INS drift doesn't seem to miss to people in other modules.

The HUD ILS isn't good enough (including synthetic runway), but you can use ADI needles (like real pilot's are doing by the way).

 

So what aircraft system is missing ?

 

MUST SPREAD REP !!!

[iVVChewy9141VVi]

Personally i think this thread should be closed and everyone should be in the pending update fix thread. If you are mad at the developers then either contact RAZBAM and be constructive and explain to them or talk to them here.

 

Yea it sucks that some systems (Which A-G is a system) is not there but don't bash them.

 

Like stated if you don't want to wait for updates maybe there having problems and working with ED don't buy the EA plan and simple.

 

I have the M2K and yes i would like to see some bug fixes and everything in the aircraft. But i am also happy that most of the features are there.

[TomCatMucDe]

Cool, now we can argue about what is a system or not. Because from my point of view, all systems are here, but they need debugging and improvement.

 

You can start, take off, navigate, edit flight plan, destroy AA or AG targets, land using AP with ILS capture and shut down.

It's better for now to disable the drift since INS update isn't satisfactory. But the INS drift doesn't seem to miss to people in other modules.

The HUD ILS isn't good enough (including synthetic runway), but you can use ADI needles (like real pilot's are doing by the way).

 

So what aircraft system is missing ?

 

 

 

Just because you can do things it doesn't mean that the module is realistic. If systems aren't realistically implemented and they promise that they will do then the module is unfinished and it's a pity to see them working on some other module instead.

 

To add to your list the armament deployment system is incorrectly implemented. The CCM is in buggy since it was implemented more than a year ago, the radar unlock resets the antenna elevation...

 

I can understand that you have a certain sympathy to Razbam because they did your favorite childhood plane, but for many other paying customers, the quality of the module as it is now isn't satisfactory and some, like me, feel they were let down.

 

 

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[jojo]

Just because you can do things it doesn't mean that the module is realistic. If systems aren't realistically implemented and they promise that they will do then the module is unfinished and it's a pity to see them working on some other module instead.

 

To add to your list the armament deployment system is incorrectly implemented. The CCM is in buggy since it was implemented more than a year ago, the radar unlock resets the antenna elevation...

 

I can understand that you have a certain sympathy to Razbam because they did your favorite childhood plane, but for many other paying customers, the quality of the module as it is now isn't satisfactory and some, like me, feel they were let down.

 

 

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I acknowledged that the plane still need debugging and improvement. I'm with you on that, and I don't assume it achieved "finished" status because it was released on Steam.

But when people start talking about a lot of missing systems this is incorrect. Things are in place and need fixes.

 

It's a matter of seeing the glass half full or half empty.

[TomCatMucDe]

I acknowledged that the plane still need debugging and improvement. I'm with you on that, and I don't assume it achieved "finished" status because it was released on Steam.

But when people start talking about a lot of missing systems this is incorrect. Things are in place and need fixes.

 

It's a matter of seeing the glass half full or half empty.

 

 

 

Then we are on the same page.

 

What bothers me, is that I am in a bar, I pay for a drink, the tender pours it in front me, he stops when it's half full only and goes to fill other glasses of other customers who haven't even paid yet. It's unfair.

 

That's my problem here. I paid from day one and I supported even with the pre alpha release. It was fair that they need to fill their treasury. I was against those who complain about unfinished stuff while Razbam was working on fixing and implementing new systems. Now it's not the case anymore. I see that the glass is half full and half empty, but we didn't pay half price (pre release had a 20% discount though but that's another story)

 

 

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[myHelljumper]

The Harrier is not even in pre-purchase :megalol: