Slims Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Also some of these bugs are here since launch, and the developers show no interest in fixing them, like the radar azimuth going berserk after you unlock. These bugs have been reported many times and even acknowledged but lately i see even the acknowledgement part has ceased as-well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunski34 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) AFAIK M-2000C radar has a A-G mode, though pretty basic (more a ground avoidance one). Anyway, this cannot be implemented until ED finishes work on their A-G radar, so it is not considered as a "core" M-2000C system. Honestly, huge majority of the systems are there and are functional. FM needs some tweaking, but the team is on it. Some minor things in the INS still need to be added, manual needs an update, but looking at the whole picture I think that talking about lots of missing systems is a big exaggeration. And the plane is really nice to fly! Of course, this module is a great DCS Module, I enjoy (love) it and of course it's a real pleasure to fly ... The problem is not the quality of the work RAZBAM has done... But as you said, some minor things (bugs or problem) are still existing ... Yes minor... and those minor things seems to need a lot of time to be fixed or done ... What's why some of us are disappointed ... The fact is no real update since April, announced delay to have an avionic update shifts (3 weeks at most announced by Zeus67 on June 12th) ! and no news ... As we say in french "Le diable se cache dans les détails" .... Devil is in the detail ! I know it's hard to have two versions 1.5.X and 2.1.X, I know that RAZBAM waits for ED functionality... But why it isn't possible to fix or do in a correct time the minor things you spoke about ? Regards Edited July 6, 2017 by sunski34 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitter Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) Also i wonder since this has been released on steam as being future complete what is to stop razbam from keeping the module as it is now? Nothing. After you've paid , they can do whatever they like. They don't give any dates for finishing off the project. And it's a laugh the project is marked as finished. You switch on the engine and....OMG, the magic's gone. This is still beta. What about the waypoints being visible on the radar screen ? Is it the same in RL that you have to turn into the waypoint and have it in range ? Edited July 6, 2017 by Skitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjacobsen Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) To be honest I'm very disappointed about Razbams priorities. Current M2000C owners actually paid for this early acces with the faith that they would finish it and stay focused. Now the M2000C is put on hold in favour of the Harrier. In my eyes thats an indication thatvother stuff has more value than the faith and money we have put into this. Also other 3rd parth developers are letting us down, like Polychop. The newly relessed Normandy map is also far from being ready for any kind of release, including current alpha release. I have been an avid supporter of ED and the latest years of increasing 3rd party developers, but recently I feel that this turns into an increasingly frustrating sim platform. In my opinion both ED and their 3rd party developers should start fixing whats not finished or bugged before adding more incomplete modules. Edited July 6, 2017 by fjacobsen 1 i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB, 1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I have been an avid supporter of ED and the latest years of increasing 3rd party developers, but recently I feel that this turns into an increasingly frustrating sim platform. Interesting. I have more fun in DCS now than ever before. If I compare todays DCS with DCS 5 or even 10 years ago, it only got better and I'm sure it will get even better in the future. And btw it's a Mirage 2000C ;) Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunctator Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I have been an avid supporter of ED and the latest years of increasing 3rd party developers, but recently I feel that this turns into an increasingly frustrating sim platform. In my opinion both ED and their 3rd party developers should start fixing whats not finished or bugged before adding more incomplete modules. Releasing new stuff seems to be their only way to generate enough money to survive as a business and update the already released modules. As long as DCS continues to evolve old modules will need continuous development time to stay up to date and functional. I hope things will stabilize soon for a few years when unified 2.5, the new DM, lightening engine, effects etc. are all out of the door, so that everybody can just focus on generating new and fixing old content. For me it looks like currently all the pieces are finally coming together. Hopefully just a few more months and DCS will have reinvented itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitrischal Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Sir, some people are on DCS to enjoy a realistic simulation, as close as possible to the real thing. The way armament works is totally not real. The CCM bug is very annoying in real combat, the radar resetting in a weird way. If you insist in calling it finished, I can't argue in that more than this. For me finished means, well, finished ... So am I darling, however I have a sense of perspective and can live with the few glitches in the only afm 4th gen fighter we have at a point in time when a major overhaul is coming. And of course everything ed changes will make the module incomplete or buggy again. It's never finished. That's what you're missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCatMucDe Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 So am I darling, however I have a sense of perspective and can live with the few glitches in the only afm 4th gen fighter we have at a point in time when a major overhaul is coming. And of course everything ed changes will make the module incomplete or buggy again. It's never finished. That's what you're missing. It's absolutely your right to be happy with the status your Mirage now. But you can't call an unfinished product a finished one. For some people 60$ are a it of money and they want to put them on finished products only. By the way, there are key features missing like the armament systems, the radar that loses its altitude when you unlock, the CCM that can't unlock a target even if he is behind you ... you can call these glitches but for many others they are more than that. PS: I had the Mirage from the first hour. Heck I even pre ordered it in the first day. I never complained that it was incomplete when they were working on it. But now yes I am disappointed that I they left it unfinished and moved to the Harrier. It sounds to me like a commitment breaking. Lessons learned: no more early access purchases from Razbam for me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slims Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 It's absolutely your right to be happy with the status your Mirage now. But you can't call an unfinished product a finished one. For some people 60$ are a it of money and they want to put them on finished products only. By the way, there are key features missing like the armament systems, the radar that loses its altitude when you unlock, the CCM that can't unlock a target even if he is behind you ... you can call these glitches but for many others they are more than that. PS: I had the Mirage from the first hour. Heck I even pre ordered it in the first day. I never complained that it was incomplete when they were working on it. But now yes I am disappointed that I they left it unfinished and moved to the Harrier. It sounds to me like a commitment breaking. Lessons learned: no more early access purchases from Razbam for me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Unfortunately i`m on the same boat as you. There are more stuff that makes the m2k feel weird as a module i get a feeling that some systems are not correlated to each other, i mean you can shutoff stuff in mid flight and plane keeps on going. I love the harrier and would love to pre-purchase it but all this stuff in m2k...` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCatMucDe Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Unfortunately i`m on the same boat as you. There are more stuff that makes the m2k feel weird as a module i get a feeling that some systems are not correlated to each other, i mean you can shutoff stuff in mid flight and plane keeps on going. I love the harrier and would love to pre-purchase it but all this stuff in m2k...` That's ok. I accept that we have different expectations from DCS and devs. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitrischal Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 It's absolutely your right to be happy with the status your Mirage now. But you can't call an unfinished product a finished one. For some people 60$ are a it of money and they want to put them on finished products only. By the way, there are key features missing like the armament systems, the radar that loses its altitude when you unlock, the CCM that can't unlock a target even if he is behind you ... you can call these glitches but for many others they are more than that. PS: I had the Mirage from the first hour. Heck I even pre ordered it in the first day. I never complained that it was incomplete when they were working on it. But now yes I am disappointed that I they left it unfinished and moved to the Harrier. It sounds to me like a commitment breaking. Lessons learned: no more early access purchases from Razbam for me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I agree there are tons of stuff missing. Most of them are ED related others aren't. The dm is a joke. ED can built a decent dm for the a10 but razbam have wrecked the m2000. Many other things are weird too. I believe though that everyone is gearing towards a unified 2.5 release to address many issues such as veao did. I whole heartedly agree with this. I'd rather see dcs 2 updated rather than 1.5 again. That doesn't stop me from enjoying the mirage the way it is now and hope for improvements. As for the harrier I can't say if it's fair or not to have started work without first addressing all of mirages' issues but this is a business and money has to be made. Do I thing the harrier will be wip or beta for a long time. Yes. That won't stop me from buying it either. Do I expect things to break as ed improve base code? Yes, I can live with that, this is a niche market, not a blockbuster game that will see most glitches patched in a couple of months. I still love dcs and the mirage or the equally buggy viggen and will continue to buy stuff in prerelease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slims Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I don`t understand why it`s ED`s fault that mirage is incomplete. It`s not ED`s job to model systems for razbam, it`s not ed`s job to model subsystems to improve the DM, not ED`s job to fix the broken radar since release, it`s razbam`s job. Even when the new improved damage model that will come from ED it will be razbam`s job to implement it, and model the subsystems that now are missing, ED won`t do anything to M2k. If you look at other models that have vibrating pitot tubes, or will have wingflex introduced if there are to appear in m2k RAZBAM must implement them no one else will ever add stuff to this module. So please stop saying this, it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudel_chw Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I still love dcs and the mirage or the equally buggy viggen How can you even compare the Mirage status with the Viggen's ... "equally buggy" are you out of your mind? ... and the Viggen's developer is actively finishing the module ... in my opinion the Viggen just needs a finished Manual and a proper Campaign, to be out of Beta and selling on Steam ... not like the Mirage, that somehow its on Steam nowisthanding all its bugs. For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1 Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitrischal Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I don`t understand why it`s ED`s fault that mirage is incomplete. It`s not ED`s job to model systems for razbam, it`s not ed`s job to model subsystems to improve the DM, not ED`s job to fix the broken radar since release, it`s razbam`s job. Even when the new improved damage model that will come from ED it will be razbam`s job to implement it, and model the subsystems that now are missing, ED won`t do anything to M2k. If you look at other models that have vibrating pitot tubes, or will have wingflex introduced if there are to appear in m2k RAZBAM must implement them no one else will ever add stuff to this module. So please stop saying this, it will never happen. Never said ed will fix it for razbam. I said pending updates work on old code stops which is logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitrischal Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 How can you even compare the Mirage status with the Viggen's ... "equally buggy" are you out of your mind? ... and the Viggen's developer is actively finishing the module ... in my opinion the Viggen just needs a finished Manual and a proper Campaign, to be out of Beta and selling on Steam ... not like the Mirage, that somehow its on Steam nowisthanding all its bugs. Are you serious? ,The viggens flight model has had some serious issues and the rearm bugs aren't entirely gone, nor is the bk90 mp issue. Release on steam? Get a grip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCatMucDe Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Are you serious? ,The viggens flight model has had some serious issues and the rearm bugs aren't entirely gone, nor is the bk90 mp issue. Release on steam? Get a grip... The Viggen is still in beta! The Mirage is not! Fly both and you will see the Viggen Beta is a better quality than the released Mirage. Besides the Mirage has been around longer than the Viggen What's left unfinished by Razbam has nothing to do with ED. with the exception of ground avoidance but this was not planned to be implemented in the beginning and probably will never be which is fine. But the radar, the CCM, the armament system, the INS, have nothing to do with ED. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slims Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Viggen has been launched on 27 of January so it is out for 5 months ? At launch viggen had all the systems up and running with slight buggs but playable. How many months since m2k has been launched ? i`ll help you out, it`s 19 months. Wanna compare m2k with viggen release ? I see people don`t remember that at release m2k did not even have bindable key bindings, i think i don`t remember right but i think it was sedenion who fixed that after a few months (if i`m wrong forgive me whoever fixed the bindings is the man). If you wanna compare 2 modules compare them at the time of release, and in this case they don`t even come close... As stated above right now m2k is in a far worse state than viggen so it is not fair towards the viggen to compare these modules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrayen Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Guys, what about tuning it down a bit? ;) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esac_mirmidon Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 At least you dont explode while rearming the Mirage " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunski34 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Those two modules are not in the same state... and Viggen is Viggen, M2000C is M2000C.... RAZBAM has to do some work to add (or fix) minor things as told before in that thread... So just let RAZBAM tell us when those updates will be available.... Edited July 7, 2017 by sunski34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitter Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 @sunski34 I think you are usurping the right to judge whether things are "minor" or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunski34 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) @Skitter : Please read all the post before reply.... see here for more informations https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3187304&postcount=202 I just reused words baltic_dragon used ;) and from my point of view the question is not minor or major but when thoses things will be done/fixed... Having a road map is the best way ... Regards Edited July 7, 2017 by sunski34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitter Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Copy all ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whaaw Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 The Viggen is still in beta! The Mirage is not! Fly both and you will see the Viggen Beta is a better quality than the released Mirage. Besides the Mirage has been around longer than the Viggen wow, that is infact some toatal bullshit, when you go indepth with the viggen you will see alot of small bugs, and by alot i mean alot. ther are also gamebraking navsystem bugs you cant even fly for 2h multiply sorties without breaking the viggen. and its ok because its early acess and bugs gets fixed very fast. SFMBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whaaw Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) The Viggen is still in beta! The Mirage is not! Fly both and you will see the Viggen Beta is a better quality than the released Mirage. Besides the Mirage has been around longer than the Viggen wow, that is infact some toatal bullshit, when you go indepth with the viggen you will see alot of small bugs, and by alot i mean alot. there are also gamebraking navsystem bugs you cant even fly for 2h multiply sorties without breaking the viggen. and its ok because its early acess and bugs gets fixed very fast. But i have to say, there were not half of the gambraking bugs in the mirage than in the viggen at the relaese. game braking bug for me is that im not able to do my mission. not actually crashing dcs Edited July 7, 2017 by whaaw SFMBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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