Mirage Status

[Joni]

Hi beloved sim friends! :D

 

I wanted to buy the Mirage until I started reading a bunch of stuff (reviews and comments from a couple of friends who bought it) about the module and found that there is a lot of complaints about it, and thought about asking the community before jumping into any wrong conclusion.

 

The main complaints I heard were about the Mirage not being fully finished and having a lot of major bugs (major bugs I consider the ones that have a negative impact on playability).

 

Can you provide an objective opinion about the module so I can decide if I get it?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

[Esac_mirmidon]

Judge yourself.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2618507&postcount=1

[TomCatMucDe]

The module is flyable and not bad. But it is incomplete and Razbam is unfortunate moved to the Harrier and we don't know when they will get back to finish it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[myHelljumper]

I see no major bugs at the moment.

 

The biggest problem right now is the high drag at very low speed but it's not a very big issue

[Joni]

That's what i was afraid of. However the big changelog would suggest that they are in fact paying attention to the Mirage.

 

Dont know what to do :notify:

[myHelljumper]

That's what i was afraid of. However the big changelog would suggest that they are in fact paying attention to the Mirage.

 

Dont know what to do :notify:

 

The air-air part of the module is very good, you can take any F-15/SU-27/Mig-29 in BVR and WVR.

 

And the quality is very high even with the missing features and little bugs.

 

If air-air is your thing take the mirage ;-).

[Hamilton]

and Razbam is unfortunate moved to the Harrier and we don't know when they will get back to finish it.

 

Exactly! Agree 100%.

[zero]

Love this aircraft.

Simple -no flap - no trim- (Fly by Wire)

No snapping out of control with stick in the belly.

Stable weapon platform.

Clear logical HUD with large visible icons.

Satisfying learning curve. Not simple -not frustrating.

Can be frustrating to learn to line up IRS, but can be set ready in menu.

Simple bomb procedures.

 

Can feel strange at low speed. (Why fly at that speed?)

90% of noise in the forum, is because guys arguments are based on knowledge and experience on conventional wing.

Turn and Burn need practice if you want fight experienced multiplayer.

 

The behavior at low speed is a minor issue for me. My guess it is closer to reality than many may claim. Studied delta a bit lately, and it is more different than imagined.

 

M2000C gives me immersion and great experience.

 

Things not working as expected, I always ask myself: Is it me or is it bug? It turns out to be me !00%.

 

M2000C is not bugged down or flawed.

[myHelljumper]

The behavior at low speed is a minor issue for me. My guess it is closer to reality than many may claim. Studied delta a bit lately, and it is more different than imagined.

 

M2000C gives me immersion and great experience.

 

Things not working as expected, I always ask myself: Is it me or is it bug? It turns out to be me !00%.

 

M2000C is not bugged down or flawed.

 

This, you said it all :).

[Davee]

That's what i was afraid of. However the big changelog would suggest that they are in fact paying attention to the Mirage.

 

Dont know what to do :notify:

It might be wise to wait a couple of weeks to see what they change (if anything) to correct some of the issues that have not been fixed for a couple of months.

 

While it is the aircraft for me to go to, I am disappointed that the drag/power/flight envelope makes it unfliable for me and many others at the moment. (no need to comment myHELLjumper) :)

 

Presently, I have it in the hangar.

 

Cheers

[Joni]

thanks guys, I see there are mixed feelings around the community. I myself hate unfinished products charged at full priced (im not saying the Mirage is), I sometimes feel there are just too many modules and not a single one really finished. This is just a feeling, dont get me wrong, I might be wrong.

 

That's why I asked about the Mirage.

 

 

i'll see if I get it in the near future.

[gavagai]

I see no major bugs at the moment.

 

The biggest problem right now is the high drag at very low speed but it's not a very big issue

 

That about sums it up. I highly recommend the module.

 

Keep in mind that you will be at a BVR disadvantage against the FC3 fighters. The Mirage 2000C only carries 4 missiles. Its medium range missile, the 530, is Fox-1 and is on the short-side of "medium" range.

 

That said, it is the only 4th gen fighter available for DCS. I think of it as an F-16 without Amraams.:thumbup:

[ObiWanVA10]

what ZERO said

[jojo]

- The flight model is "accurate" according one point of view, but in fact, NOT accurate at all, so the M2k is not what it should be (an agile fighter).

 

Just stop talking about the FM.

You are an obsessive guy.

- Sedenion: there's a problem with the FM, the FM is wrong.

Lots of talk on the forum, pros and cons then:

- CptSmiley (FM coder): my apologies, there is a problem with the FM, I'm working on it. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3159616&postcount=32

- Sedenion: FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong, FM is wrong...

 

So, no the current FM is not accurate enough, especially at low speed. But the FM coder came here to tell us he is working on it.

And for your information Sedenion, the FM isn't wrong because of trying to stick to the charts.

What is wrong isn't fitting with the charts, and this is why you are having these problems at low speed.

Edited June 12, 2017 by jojo

[NeilWillis]

The M2000C is an excellent module - leagues ahead of anything you'll find in any other flight sim. The trouble with this forum is that people make a lot of fuss over some very minor bugs, and give the impression it will lead to the end of the world if not put right immediately.

 

If you listen to some of the nonsense spouted here, you'll get the impression the modules are all rubbish, whereas, they are already far far better than anything else out there.

 

Get the M2000C now, and judge for yourself whether there is any substance in the niggles that everyone here seem to blow out of all proportion to the reality of what is a well polished, and excellent module.

 

Sure, you'll need to be on your toes when it comes to high alpha in landing it, but all you have to do is fly the numbers, and it is fine.

 

I suspect a lot of "pilots" who fly badly are the ones who make the most noise when it comes to the flight model. Fly at the edge of the envelope, and you're bound to get bitten if the figures aren't perfect. Fly as it is designed to fly, and you won't ever notice any of the ragged edge effects being off.

 

And also, take no notice when people tell you what developers are working on at any given time. They're guessing, and have no insight into what is actually happening because we simply aren't told.

 

If you let the forum influence you and don't buy the module, then they're doing DCS World a huge disservice. That is reprehensible, and totally unfair.

[myHelljumper]

[...]

 

This.

Be careful for forum warriors :D.

[mvsgas]

It seem that every thread lately has turn to this:

 

 

[emko]

Although the M2k may feel a little bit neglected, it's fine. Keep in mind that until somebody makes an affordable force-feedback chair, the sensation of flight "at home" will be very very different, even with force feedback (sorry, apart from force trim in helicopters, it doesn't really helps that much; BTW the DCS helicopters are designed to be flown with spring-centering joysticks so you don't even need FF at all). It's not easy to judge the flight model, especially when you are not a real world pilot of a fighter aircraft (Cessna 152 doesn't count) or you haven't flown the aircraft in full-motion sim. Especially the fly-by-wire aircraft can behave in quite unexpected ways.

 

Is M2k's flight model wrong in edge cases? That's unfortunate and SHOULD be fixed. Yes, it should. But if it doesn't limit "normal usage" of the aircraft (and in M2k it doesn't) I wouldn't think twice before buying it, especially when the devs are working on fixing the flight model.

 

I'm into strike missions (bought M2k long before Viggen was released), not A-A combat. I can't tell you how the aircraft behaves or what are your odds in online dogfights. But for ground attacking it's fine. Keep fast, low and enjoy July 4th (or 5th November, if you are from England :) ).

[some1]

That's what i was afraid of. However the big changelog would suggest that they are in fact paying attention to the Mirage.

 

There are several reasons:

 

- The module was initially released as an alpha so there were a lot of things to fix.

- Razbam guys are one of the few that actually bother to make meaningful changelogs.

- They worked hard over the last year and, unlike other 3rd party devs, provided regular and frequent updates. Kudos for that.

 

Unfortunately, Razbam admitted themselves that right now the Harrier has taken priority for an undisclosed reason. My guess is that the guys want to release the Harrier before ED Hornet, and they have a limited release window given from ED - but that's just speculation. Whatever the reason, there were no updates to Mirage recently except small fixes from time to time.

 

So while the Mirage right now is probably in better state than ever, it is not in a "released" state like other modules from ED or Belsimtek, even though it doesn't have the "beta" tag any more. One item that may be a serious issue for a newcomer is that the manual is very poor and obsolete, Chuck's guide is MIA so you will have to read forums a lot to get basic information. At least the tutorials and campaign are pretty good.

[ZHeN]

I think the main gamebreaker now is lack of up-to-date manual. Chuck's guide is old and not available for download, razbam's is outdated...

It's not a big problem for experienced pilots, but for newcomers it's a huge pain to learn the aircraft without a proper official manual.

 

as for the module, she's my main battle bird, I mostly fly online. she is effective in both a-a & a-g roles

 

I'm not a big fan of mirage, simply it's the only DCS level (i. e. asm+efm) 4th gen fighter avilable

[sedenion]

Just stop talking about the FM.

You are an obsessive guy.

 

Dear Jojo... be happy that i don't speak about your psychological states and biases... Piston85 asked something, i anwered, the FM problem is real and actual and is not currently fixed, even if CptSmiley confirmed he is working on... I will put the "FM problem" out of the list when it will be fixed.

 

This.

Be careful for forum warriors :D.

 

You too, be happy.

Edited June 12, 2017 by sedenion

[Xxx]

The M2000C is an excellent module - leagues ahead of anything you'll find in any other flight sim. The trouble with this forum is that people make a lot of fuss over some very minor bugs, and give the impression it will lead to the end of the world if not put right immediately.

 

If you listen to some of the nonsense spouted here, you'll get the impression the modules are all rubbish, whereas, they are already far far better than anything else out there.

 

Get the M2000C now, and judge for yourself whether there is any substance in the niggles that everyone here seem to blow out of all proportion to the reality of what is a well polished, and excellent module.

 

Sure, you'll need to be on your toes when it comes to high alpha in landing it, but all you have to do is fly the numbers, and it is fine.

 

I suspect a lot of "pilots" who fly badly are the ones who make the most noise when it comes to the flight model. Fly at the edge of the envelope, and you're bound to get bitten if the figures aren't perfect. Fly as it is designed to fly, and you won't ever notice any of the ragged edge effects being off.

 

And also, take no notice when people tell you what developers are working on at any given time. They're guessing, and have no insight into what is actually happening because we simply aren't told.

 

If you let the forum influence you and don't buy the module, then they're doing DCS World a huge disservice. That is reprehensible, and totally unfair.

 

Well put!

 

It's a wonderful aircraft to fly. However, I can not see the HUD in 2.1 with Deferred Shading on? Hopefully ED will fix this at the next update?

 

In 1.56 the Mirage is a joy to fly.:D

 

Best regards

 

David

[myHelljumper]

I think the main gamebreaker now is lack of up-to-date manual. Chuck's guide is old and not available for download, razbam's is outdated...

It's not a big problem for experienced pilots, but for newcomers it's a huge pain to learn the aircraft without a proper official manual.

 

I don't agree with you here :), while the manual is not up to date with the aircraft and some part are missing (VTB symbology, RWR contacts ), it is still very useful when learning the aircraft:

- You have all checklists up to date

- HUD symbology is mostly up to date

- Compete INS guide

- A/A and A/G weapon employment mostly up to date

- General aircraft info mostly complete and up to date

- Radar modes and employment partially explained

- HOTAS function explained

 

Chuck manual state is worst than the official manual at the moment with a lot of outdated and wrong data (nonetheless a very good guide :thumbup:)

 

Edit : And you have good training missions and a semi-training campaign with the module ;).

Edited June 12, 2017 by myHelljumper

[OnlyforDCS]

I've stopped flying the FC3 planes because of the Mirage. That's all there is to it. It's my GO TO jet at this time.

 

With that said, Im mostly into Normandy now and WWII planes, so the Mirage is in the Hangar for now. The only nitpick I have is the FM high drag issue at high alpha, which as many have stated will be fixed ASAP, and IMO is not a good enough reason to skip this module. By the time you learn to operate it properly, the issue will most probably be fixed.

 

In my opinion the Mirage has the best flight model out of all the third party modules at the moment (I don't consider Belsimtek to be a third party) even when taking this issue into account.

[escaner]

At first glance, the Mirage looks like a nice module, but if you are a hardcore flight sim enthusiast and want to experience the complete procedures in this aircraft, INS navigation, different A-G attack profiles, etc. you will soon notice that it is an unfinished product.

 

The manual is incomplete, it has been a long time since it was last updated. Razbam was doing a great job working in the Mirage, with lots of weekly updates and have been and still are very verbose about them, which is great, but forgot about the manual. Unfortunately these updates have been greatly reduced lately, as they are mainly focused now in their next product, strange enough this happened about the same time they changed the M2000C status from "early access" to "finished product". When doing the tutorials, you will soon notice that many systems do not work as described. Eg, the INS at first glance looks pretty cool, but when you do the different update position methods, they just do not work: they are not implemented. The A-G gun tutorial describes something that does not work like that; precision bombing, I could not even repeat the procedure. The A-G pipper both for bombs and gun wasn't accurate at all (I saw that the one for guns was updated after I tried, so it may be fixed).

 

Then FM in the ground seems flawed: you need lots of thrust to start moving and even to keep moving, feels as if wheels are always braking. Engine sounds are very weird. E.g. there are doppler effect sounds for a static camera relative to the airplane, and muting inside the cockpit when you get to Mach 1, which makes no sense.

 

To sum up: if you just want it to quick startup, takeoff and go air-to-air in an online server, it will serve your purpose perfectly. OTOH, if you are looking for a complete, accurate module and exploit all the features ofthe aricraft, do not get it because it is not yet there (at least until Razbam comes back to it and eventually finishes it, but AFAIK they have not stated when that will be).