[NO BUG] 1.5.7: Texture mods and Integrity Check [FEATURE REQUEST Submitted]

[MoGas]

What do you mean, Skatezilla, with "go to servers that dont IC" ? How many big servers are there, you think? You think ppl have a great choice other than coming to us, Blueflag or OpenConflict? The newest and youngest addition, which we welcome a lot, would be "through the inferno" which is 99% coop, btw. And I doubt aerobatics, as the remaining server that gets full, needs IC in the way we would.

 

In the 104th we are hosting the biggest and most populated server since 11 years now, and the only one that has been a constant to this Multiplayer. Of course we IC. We want to provide a fair game. We also dont want ppl to use mods that require everyone to have it or that give an edge, because the three main principles of our server - and what makes it so successfull - are: stability, reliability and accessibility. The latter being most important when trying to make this community grow, which is and always has been our main concern.

 

But terrain mods? Who is claiming that you can cheat with terrain mods? Where do you get that from? On what server? Please. It's not an issue on the 104th, and as far as I know it is not an issue on Blueflag, it is not an issue on Open Conflict. Those who claim it is, obviously havent flown with a terrain mod, also there has never occured any footage from someone showing "how much better he can spot targets because of a terrain mod".

 

It has never been an issue with air to ground anyway, those guys are actually happy terrain mods help them use their equipment at all and are more the coop section of MP than actually the competitive section.

It has never been an issue in air to air either, because none of the existing terrain mods makes spotting bandits easier.

 

Also: a vanilla game does not mean it is a game free of exploits or other ways ppl cheat. A vanilla game is not a must to provide a fair, open and successfull Multiplayer environment either.

 

Never ever, in 11 years of constant 24/7 hosting, and mind you again, being the only server that also was constantly full for 11 years, have we caught one single client who cheated with terrain mods. That is in more than 80.000 hours of hosting. So, unless you think you share the same amount of experience in creating a Multiplayer environment, please listen to me.

 

If you think that there is relief among our clients: there isn't. There is only complaints. As we speak I keep getting msgs why terrain mods and other mods don't work on our server anymore, as people now think it would be us, who dont want these mods. (it's not us.)

 

We do want ppl to use these mods on our server, 100%. And we do want to have the possibility as admins to decide what is ICed and what not, because we actually know what our clients want and need.

 

That goes for Multiplayer events, too. For more than 6 years now we had no single cheating incident in any Multiplayer event, and I can assure you over 70% of all Multiplayer events in the past 6 years have been organised by us, too. Excluding Coop that is, I am speaking of large scale competitive events. The last person cheating in a Multiplayer event was - you guessed it - Zerol from the Alpha Squad. No one else even attempted it in an event. And the only price money that has been involved in MP events, apart from Rik's event couple years ago, actually came out of our pockets or from sponsors we organized back together with SA-SIM. And I can tell you: cheating isn't an issue in events, at all. And if anyone should be concerned about it, it should be us, and not you. (edit: 6 years, not 8 years, the Zerol incident was 6 years ago.)

 

So please, we actually agree with the clients. IC should be configurable. And we need terrain mods and configurable IC back ASAP.

 

Many thanks to Eagle Dynamics, the rest of their work is - as always - beautiful and a joy to fly. Spread the love folks, all will be good, I am sure! :)

 

S!

 

right on!!

[Nero.ger]

Please, no conspiracy theories :D

It is accomplished with the tech which is already in place, so it was not much work to do.

However, it seems we underestimated the popularity of texture mods.

 

it was the only explenation i can came up with because i was under the assumtion that you guys read the forums and see what people are interrested in. And the MODs section has one of the highest ViewCounter.

So will the IC revert to its original State?, now that we have established that

a) Text-Mods are awesome and

b) are not cheating

[docWilly]

They don't, they are not contrast boosting mods. There are three terrain mods ppl use: Starway's, Barthek's and Mustang's. Some improved the flir (IR) on the TGP more, the other less. But they improves something which by then was actually broken and not a reflection of "IRL" They are also not created as contrast boosting mods. and there are other ways to boost contrast.

 

And trust me, in a MP environment, the A10C's TGP is the very least concern when it comes to "cheating". I'll say it again, out of over 80.000 hours hosting: cheating is only a very small issue online in DCS. the rarest actually. and when ppl cheat, they cheat wit more obvious cheats and in air to air, and not in air to ground.

 

People who chose terrain mods chose them to increase the immersion and use the set of color adjustments each of these three major mods provides as fits to their liking. they dont do it because of the tgp in the a10.

 

 

Thanks IronMIke, completely share your opinions published by you in this thread.

 

MP server host should have the possibility to decide what they want to restrict in IC.

I am a Mustang`s texture user since ever and the comparison with the stock 1.5.7 terrain I had to go back to due to this restriction is simply annoying.

 

I am mostly flying low and slow for mud moving and all the mentioned texture mods are definitely not cheating in any way I can assure you. In certain areas it´s even harder to spot ground targets as the background is more to real life.

 

Using better terrain textures for immersion is a MUST for me. For all those ppl whining about the "cheating"....please gentlemen compare the available texture mods to the stock terrain (including the ability to spot targets with the TGP/FLIR/Shkval devices) and then come back. It´s simply not true and the present IC restriction kill´s immersion. Thats it.

[David OC]

 

Using better terrain textures for immersion is a MUST for me. For all those ppl whining about the "cheating"....please gentlemen compare the available texture mods to the stock terrain (including the ability to spot targets with the TGP/FLIR/Shkval devices) and then come back. It´s simply not true and the present IC restriction kill´s immersion. Thats it.

 

I don't think they are whining about it exactly, these Mod options need to be implemented properly by ED for these mods to work without some cheating when even using IC.

 

Otherwise you could open Starways ground textures up and flatten the textures out to one color for the ground, this would make it much easier to spot air or ground targets in multiplayer. Not sure why anyone would do this, guess some will stop at nothing for an advantage.

 

.

[Riskyflier]

Dont take my texture MOD away from me.....

 

I have to add, that I use Barthoks MOD exclusively for VR. Its the only way I could fully immerse myself in flying.

My squadron colleagues can testify how I was so in awe after the vanilla textures were tranfsformed into something of beauty.

 

 

I rarely play single player and for me enjoying multiplayer with this MOD keeps me in the session far longer than using the standard textures.

 

Dont take this away from me....... pleaseeeee.

[Eroxz564]

This patch is really a sad part tbh :'(

[Coug4r]

It's not all bad, we got the new looks for menus, map loading is way faster than before, WWII assets, all good stuff :) ED will fix the issues i'm sure.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

It's not all bad, we got the new looks for menus

Good luck reading the menu in VR, especially finding the sliders in the rearm/refuel window.

The scoreboard is unreadable in VR during a mission, unless I highlight specific rows.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Elysian Angel

[StandingCow]

Eh, these are all issues we are going to have to deal with while ED has to handle two/three different builds. I bet they want the merger more than we do.

[NineLine]

I think most texture mods will go the way of the dodo when the new Black Sea map hits, just a theory though...

[Esac_mirmidon]

Agree.

[Coxy_99]

I think most texture mods will go the way of the dodo when the new Black Sea map hits, just a theory though...

 

I think we all want the terrain mods to tie us over until then tho, Question is when will it hit?

[NineLine]

I think we all want the terrain mods to tie us over until then tho, Question is when will it hit?

 

Better question is do we want them to worry about supporting user terrain mods, or just working on getting us towards 2.5 :)

[NineLine]

Considering that ED was pursuing making Starway's texture mod available for sale, another popular one was made by one of your own testers (Mustang) and a third one resulted in a very public forum disturbance, I cannot comprehend how the popularity of texture mods was not abundantly apparent.

 

All happened before ED decided to re-do the BS map, and even Mustang said, I believe, that you wouldn't need his mod when the new map hit. Or something to that effect. Makes sense now that terrain texture mods are really not on their radar anymore.

[Pasquale1986]

Better question is do we want them to worry about supporting user terrain mods, or just working on getting us towards 2.5 :)

 

That's an rhetorical question ;-)

[NineLine]

That an rhetorical question ;-)

 

Pretty much, I know the right answer :D

[IronMike]

I think most texture mods will go the way of the dodo when the new Black Sea map hits, just a theory though...

 

I don't think so, Sith. In general, yes, the existing ones will become obsolete. And I also don't agree that ED's ground textures are so ugly, to the contrary, ED always gave us a beautiful stock version which so far has improved a lot on previous version with 2.5 taking it to another level, yes.

 

But, there is always room for improvement and it won't take long, until ppl will be at it again. And I think it is important. It makes the game and the community more dynamic, for example different ppl opted for different ground mods, as they would display a different set of colours which find appeal with different folks with different preferences. They will be back.

 

And it is not only terrain textures. It is cockpit textures, too. Like the blue ka-50 pit, etc, berliosa fix for the Mig29, etc etc... These mods enhance and improve on the existing gaming experience and make DCS more inclusive. They also keep MP and SP alive for longer, as ppl get more variety, and thus the ability to renew their "how awesome is that?!" experience.

 

Modding is an important and integral part of this community, espacially in MP, where IC is important of course, but like I said, it should be defined by us, who are hosting and who know our clients and what we need to keep MP a fair, safe and enjoyable experience.

 

It will take a while, but rest assured, mods in 2.5 will be back. After all, it is something that brings the community closer to the game.

 

S!

[*Rage*]

I think most texture mods will go the way of the dodo when the new Black Sea map hits, just a theory though...

 

But until then...

[NineLine]

But until then...

 

...you will need to work around the Integrity Check.

[Nero.ger]

wait....you are actualy encoraging us to bypass the integrity check??

[Coxy_99]

wait....you are actualy encoraging us to bypass the integrity check??

 

Pretty much.

[IronMike]

Better question is do we want them to worry about supporting user terrain mods, or just working on getting us towards 2.5 :)

 

We want them to worry about an IC that we as admins can define in general, as that will be also important in the future.

 

Wether that will be terrain mods or cockpit mods or a mod for something else, that we might use in a MP event (and still run IC while using it) is not important. Important is that IC acknowledges the fact that we, who host the big servers and basically all the events in MP (and for that matter anyone else, who hosts, too, as admins in general define it, and not an all or nothing solution. And of course not for our sake, but for the sake of anyone who might host a server or event in the future: admins and hosts in general. They are your experts.

 

It is a must in MP hosting. And if you ask me, we should have been approached about it in advance.

 

We are the experts in MP, Sith. Thus it should also be us, who define its environment. We've done it for that past 11 years and thus kept it alive. Tens of thousands of hours have gone into that. Years and years of hard work. Most of people really cannot imagine how much work went into nurturing a lively MP environment. You really don't. Naturally that we got to know MP in its full extend. We helped build it in the first place.

 

Sith, Skatezilla, Bignewy - your work and expertise is tremendously important for this community and I absolutely adore your work. I cannot thank you enough for it! But MP is not the field of your expertise. That's our realm. So again, pls listen to me, when I tell you: we need a modular IC, something that we can configure ourselves. We know what our clients need and what is best for them. 2.5 will not change that fact.

 

 

Thank you and best wishes from the 104th.

 

S!

Edited July 14, 2017 by IronMike

[NineLine]

wait....you are actualy encoraging us to bypass the integrity check??

 

No, you can turn of IC cant you?

Edited July 14, 2017 by NineLine

[NineLine]

But MP is not the field of your expertise. That's our realm.

 

What? I think I have plenty of MP experience, hosting and playing on servers, so not really sure how you figure that.

Edited July 14, 2017 by NineLine

[Nero.ger]

No, you can turn of IC cant you?

 

it would be extremely helpfull if you would be more specific than just a one-liner.

I dont know how I can turn off the IC to play on a Server That uses IC to get Texture Mods working. (and a decent FPS....)

 

 

Better question is do we want them to worry about supporting user terrain mods, or just working on getting us towards 2.5

we never ask for IC terrain Mods. So now saying that worring about TexMods might delay 2.5 is a bit strange since ED decided they wanted IC on TexMods and spend time on that in the first place.