Four Additional Flaming Cliffs Aircraft

[Padonis]

For me, it looks like stepping back in development. It should be the other way aroun, they should make full versions of Mig-29, Su-27 and Su-25T ...

Soon DCS World will come out on PS4 ... :(

Edited May 26, 2018 by padonis

[sirscorpion]

Disappointing, a step back, total disconnect with the customer base, I honestly have no words.

Edited May 26, 2018 by sirscorpion

[Krasniye]

For me, it looks like stepping back in development. It should be the other way aroun, they should make full versions of Mig-29, Su-27 and Su-25T ...

Soon DCS World will come out on PS4 ...

 

Absolutely agree. At least a full fidelity MiG-29 and F-15 at the minimum, or maybe even a "Half-Fidelity" sort of setup where the FC3 aircraft aren't 100% full fidelity but still have more functions and clicky cockpits, ext.

 

ADD more features instead of taking them away and rebranding it as a new product.

[Katmandu]

A10C, L39, Ka50 and F18 (+/- F16)

I'd wager F4, Mig 23, F/A18, F16 - if no corroboration between ED/BST and other devs.

[Vitormouraa]

For me, it looks like stepping back in development. It should be the other way aroun, they should make full versions of Mig-29, Su-27 and Su-25T ...

 

Agreed.

 

FC4 would make sense, but this idea of reducing the complexity of an existing module and then charging for it is just nonsense.

 

Let's not forget that we already have a Game Mode in DCS, which simplifies the Flight Model a bit, as well as the key commands.

 

Not only that, but we have a ton of content on youtube about DCS modules, the manuals, Chuck's guides and everything.

 

If this isn't simplified enough, what else do you want? AI playing the game for you?

[dimitrischal]

Huge dissapointment. Dumbing the core of the game to attract the wrong audience...

[NineLine]

I'd wager F4, Mig 23, F/A18, F16 - if no corroboration between ED/BST and other devs.

 

Just to curb expectations, as far as I am aware, the aircraft being kicked around are already released modules. so none of those fall into that realm.

[*Rage*]

I hope Loris Karius, for his own sake, is a DCS fan. He'll be reading this and feeling better about his performance tonight.

Edited May 26, 2018 by ///Rage

[NineLine]

FC4 would make sense, but this idea of reducing the complexity of an existing module and then charging for it is just nonsense.

 

This isnt for the people that already own those aircraft though, you have to look at the bigger picture, that maybe ED has to do things to expand their userbase. Its not always gonna be about people already here, but sometimes its about bringing more in, and those that only like FC3, giving them more options.

[Buzzles]

Just to curb expectations, as far as I am aware, the aircraft being kicked around are already released modules. so none of those fall into that realm.

 

I don't own nor plan to buy FC3 or 4, but even I can see this is a serious misstep.

 

While the debate for what people want in terms of FC-level or full will always rage, there's no debate that people want new aircraft.

 

As much as I dislike the product line, FC4 is an ideal opportunity to add to DCS some aircraft that won't/can't be available at the full PFM/ASM level for the people who want more FC level aircraft.

[NineLine]

I don't own nor plan to buy FC3 or 4, but even I can see this is a serious misstep.

 

While the debate for what people want in terms of FC-level or full will always rage, there's no debate that people want new aircraft.

 

As much as I dislike the product line, FC4 is an ideal opportunity to add to DCS some aircraft that won't/can't be available at the full PFM/ASM level for the people who want more FC level aircraft.

 

You dont own or plan to buy FC3.... so this isnt for you. Makes sense you dont get it.

[Dee-Jay]

What about bringing the WWII community who has bought the Normandy map a bit more ... something to do with it ... ? I am sure they would be happy.

 

 

... extending the aircraft available in FC3 could bring in new blood.

 

 

... “None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.”

 

Delightfully yours.

 

Lestat de Lioncourt.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I always want to see new stuff for ED, and I like the thought of more RedFor, but for this current pack, its not in the cards. Keep the responses mature and constructive like this and that is all you can do. I see the benefit of doing this, even its not everything everyone wants right now.

 

The benefit would be extremely limited. Sure, there's one there. But, this really requires a cost-benefit analysis.

 

This reaction has been fairly unified and civil, meaning lots of people are probably on the same page about this. This is going to be taking away production time from other efforts. This is something that does concern me.

 

Some of the models for NPC aircraft in the game are very well down. Why not use those? Making something like the Su-24 or F-15E flyable would be objectively superior to just re-kitting full-fidelity sims to fit a simplified FC3 model.

 

As for a discount for FC3 owners, that doesn't make a lick of sense. Why not discounts for those who actually own the full fidelity aircraft? Or better still, for free since they paid for the fully detailed module? Yeah, ED has to make money and any decent customer will respect that, but at the same time ED should respect the fact that a customer appreciates effort and especially loves something new added to this experience. Adding more FC aircraft could do that, but when you're essentially replacing your Time Crisis III cabinet with a crane game? There could be some benefit, sure, but is it worth it?

 

Also, the presupposition that FC3 is nice for newbies due to its simplicity is an assumption I'd also like to call into question. That simplicity is offset by the required memorization of key-strokes. I've found it way easier to train others on full fidelity since it's a simple matter of directing them around the cockpit. This assumption, of course, comes out of the fact that FC3 seem less daunting than full fidelity aircraft, and that's very true.

 

So, to that end, why not offer simpler aircraft? The 2nd generation offers a lot of potential and they soldiered on in service for a long time. After all, I hate adding to the tired bandwagon of repeating this, but there really is a dearth of Eastern Bloc aircraft. Even getting another FC3 level Redfor would be very much appreciated by the player base.

 

Yes, obviously it takes time to make full fidelity products and I don't think there's anyone here that'd argue that it doesn't, but certainly the amount of time will go into making simplified version of full fidelity aircraft would be time better spent on other aspects of the sim.

 

So, basically, ED wants to sell us simplified versions of modules we already own and they'll give us a discount if we own FC3. That's a little bit insulting, honestly.

[Vitormouraa]

This isnt for the people that already own those aircraft though, you have to look at the bigger picture, that maybe ED has to do things to expand their userbase. Its not always gonna be about people already here, but sometimes its about bringing more in, and those that only like FC3, giving them more options.

 

I understand what you say, what Buzzles said above too. But personally, I don't have a problem with FC4, but the idea of having a space within DCS for "newbies" (not the offensive way). We already have that, it's the FC3.

 

I once was a noob, 4-5 years ago when I started playing DCS. I enjoyed so much the steep curves that DCS requires. Learning new things and taking the challenges. Maybe this is not the case for everyone that starts playing DCS for the first time, but I don't think it was the point either, this isn't easy, it's not supposed to be. :)

 

I'll just shut myself up, I don't understand it, I don't think I will :D

[Temp89]

Whilst I'm sure the expansion will appeal to many new players, I don't think you can expect anyone into DCS enough that they follow development on these forums to be excited over development spent on a downgrade of existing modules.

[schroedi]

First, I understand ED's point bringing existing aircraft to FC4, because the development will be pretty easy. The FM and the 3D model can be reused. Making other plane like Su-17 or even F-22 would require a complete new AFM and new 3D model for each of the four planes - maybe that might not be worth it. If they have very low production costs for FC4 and only new players will buy FC4 it can be worth it.

I am pretty sure ED knows that people who already own a full fidelity module won't buy the simplified one.

 

Second, I don't think there will be simplified planes of any 3rd party devs in FC4, maybe except from Belsimtek.

So the list of possible planes narrow to the following one (in my mind):

 

ED: A-10C, KA-50, L-39, maybe F/A-18C and why not one of the WWII planes Spitfire, Bf109, FW-190 and P-51

 

Belsimtek: F-86, MiG-15, F-5, UH-1 and Mi-8

 

Maybe the planes in FC4 are a mixture, like FW-190, KA-50, F-5 and L-39

[Katmandu]

Just to curb expectations, as far as I am aware, the aircraft being kicked around are already released modules. so none of those fall into that realm.

 

Expectations curbed :) Will corroboration between with the other devs be on the cards? Mig-21, Harrier etc

 

F/A-18 is not released yet of course, I hope it will make it into FC4...

 

But, genuinely happy with the decision. People who "do not get it" need to realise that full resources will still be spent on full modules and FC4 will only bring more revenue for the same development direction.

[NineLine]

I understand what you say, what Buzzles said above too. But personally, I don't have a problem with FC4, but the idea of having a space within DCS for "newbies" (not the offensive way). We already have that, it's the FC3

 

So to heck with people that only are interested in FC3 level aircraft, they get nothing new?

 

And people calling this a cash grab, so much utter nonsense... it would be more of a crash grab to pump out new lo-level aircraft with details well below what ED wants, even for FC3. I mean many of the aircraft people were throwing out on the wishlist would have been impossible even for just the PFM.

 

We have the Hind, F-4, Tomcat, Hornet, Viper among others in development, there is plenty for 'us', but there is a market beyond that that people arent interested in seeing, but it is there.

[NineLine]

Huge dissapointment. Dumbing the core of the game to attract the wrong audience...

 

This is elitist at best... many many fans of FC3, and many more out there if there was a wider option of planes. Its the same as complaining about WWII or other eras, just because you dont like it doesnt mean it doesnt do well for ED. And a healthy ED makes things like the Hornet and Viper and others possible.... its all connected, like it or not.

[NineLine]

Expectations curbed :) Will corroboration between with the other devs be on the cards? Mig-21, Harrier etc

 

F/A-18 is not released yet of course, I hope it will make it into FC4...

 

But, genuinely happy with the decision. People who "do not get it" need to realise that full resources will still be spent on full modules and FC4 will only bring more revenue for the same development direction.

 

I kinda would love a FC3 version of the MiG-21, but I know of no products outside ED/BST.

 

I mean I would fly other aircraft more if they were easier to get into. I like the option of both. Sometimes time and 6 year old are my enemy :)

[Vitormouraa]

So to heck with people that only are interested in FC3 level aircraft, they get nothing new?

 

And people calling this a cash grab, so much utter nonsense... it would be more of a crash grab to pump out new lo-level aircraft with details well below what ED wants, even for FC3. I mean many of the aircraft people were throwing out on the wishlist would have been impossible even for just the PFM.

 

We have the Hind, F-4, Tomcat, Hornet, Viper among others in development, there is plenty for 'us', but there is a market beyond that that people arent interested in seeing, but it is there.

 

I thought DCS was confused on full fidelity modules. I'm sorry if I had the wrong impression then.

 

Anyway, always good to see the other side of the story. I didn't think about that.

[Hamilton]

Sure, but as stated above, just so expectations are set, the added aircraft will be FC3 versions of existing full modules.

 

So sad... :cry:

[Rolds]

Do you know if it is limited to modules Eagle Dynamics has released or are other third party modules going to be included?

[Texac]

FC fits in well for newcomers or easy/arcade gamemode players but IMO still not for DCS World.

 

I remember ED stating clearly that they would never develop FC level aircraft again.

[seedofcheif]

And people calling this a cash grab, so much utter nonsense... it would be more of a crash grab to pump out new lo-level aircraft with details well below what ED wants, even for FC3. I mean many of the aircraft people were throwing out on the wishlist would have been impossible even for just the PFM.

 

We have the Hind, F-4, Tomcat, Hornet, Viper among others in development, there is plenty for 'us', but there is a market beyond that that people arent interested in seeing, but it is there.

 

You're pissing off you're existing customers in favor of potentially pleasing new ones. Not only does this directly contradict one of the basic rules of buissnes (existing customers are always king) but more importantly you don't need to do this you can please both parties this just seems so self destructive...