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Alpenwolf

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Forgive me for asking the obvious, but I don't really understand why this game breaking. If we know there is one player attacking EWRs why don't we just assign one fighter to defend it? Within 15 minutes, this fighter is sure to see some action.

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4 hours ago, MarkMD said:

Hi guys, this topic is sore for some and fun for others.  I’m not trolling anyone with this message, and just wish to point out facts. 

I have seen this happen time after time and it is a fog of war tactic. Being a GCI, is more than just sending fighters in to shoot other fighters down. You are there to aid the battle in what ever you can. Move vehicles, set traps for fighters, drive vehicles and shoot the odd aircraft if they come within your envelope. 
I use all tactics of war and keep an open mind as to what the enemy is doing. Often I disable HAWK sites, EWR’s, reduce kill zones for more effective results, place ground vehicles in such a way to that they don’t all die with a single pass. 
Its your own fault if you lose the turn fight if you commit to it with not knowing how to BFM. Why complain if you don’t protect your equipment. 
 

I know it’s frustrating not having coverage, I’ve been there, it hurts. Do you see me writing about it in forums?  As a rhetorical question I’m not asking you to answer it, just take the time to help your team mates. Be the guy who helps others, and make the mission more fulfilling by guarding your sites.

 
DCS is built around the combined arms, it also gives you the tools to defend as well as attack. Your failure is in your hands. 

Im not asking for people to get upset with me, pointing out the obvious that we all know.  If you spent 30 minutes in a 4 hour mission taking turns you can have a memorable mission. You get just as much pleasure fighting as an E2 operator than a fighter pilot. Trust me, it’s not easy, but it’s worth the work. 
 

Thanks for taking the time to understand the bigger picture, Alpenwolf has a huge job, planning missions, and answering questions that with thought, could be resolved simply.

 

Enjoy the fight, help others and respect each other. 

Cheers,

Mike-Delta

 

If I only could clone another Mike-Delta for the Red side 😉

 

It's only a couple of people who appreciate and enjoy the CA module, that's the problem, mate. Sometimes, it's even more fun than flying or even driving any vehicles, if you get your pilots to fly the way you see fit, and according to how the battle is enfolding itself in front of your eyes on the F10 map. I can't ask players to do that, it's up to them what they want to fly/play, but I can only hope more would give it a shot. ED is upgrading the CA module anyway, so maybe we'll see things changing in that regard in the future.

 

Bless you, mate. Hope to see you tonight supporting the Blue side in mission Allied Assault.

 

1 hour ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

I don't disagree with anything you said.

 

Winning the war while killing the server is not a winning proposition.

 

Some common sense must come into play.

 

If one player is determined to do nothing but blind the other side at the expense of the server population in general, something should be done.

 

Personally, I would ask the player to stop this behavior and if the response was anything along the lines of "If you don't like it, build the server to stop me from doing it" then I would immediately ban this person. That is the attitude that ruins the experience for everyone else and makes a server operator's life miserable.

 

Some people play purely to bring grief to others or to stroke their own egos. The easiest solution is to exclude those players from playing where this behavior is not appreciated.

 

Many DCS groups avoid this by putting their servers behind a password.

 

If we want a public server run by a community volunteer, we have to behave ourselves and support the server operator's decisions regarding those who cannot behave themselves.

 

Well said.

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8 hours ago, Sizzle said:

Forgive me for asking the obvious, but I don't really understand why this game breaking. If we know there is one player attacking EWRs why don't we just assign one fighter to defend it? Within 15 minutes, this fighter is sure to see some action.

 

Because A) There are no name tags over people because we don't have a GCI 75% of the time. B) I have tried this because I am not an idiot, and my result is that after the merge he flies at mach 1.05 (which is barely catchable let alone gaining close enough separation to launch) and there is simply nothing that can be done. In addition to that we have no idea where he is because ofc, we dont have a GCI and before you know it he's gotten the EWR 

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9 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

If I only could clone another Mike-Delta for the Red side 😉

 

It's only a couple of people who appreciate and enjoy the CA module, that's the problem, mate. Sometimes, it's even more fun than flying or even driving any vehicles, if you get your pilots to fly the way you see fit, and according to how the battle is enfolding itself in front of your eyes on the F10 map. I can't ask players to do that, it's up to them what they want to fly/play, but I can only hope more would give it a shot. ED is upgrading the CA module anyway, so maybe we'll see things changing in that regard in the future.

 

Bless you, mate. Hope to see you tonight supporting the Blue side in mission Allied Assault.

 

 

Well said.

I've only been playing this game for about 3 months now. Mike-Delta has been indispensable in improving my learning curve. The guy is soooo knowledgeable, and freely shares that knowledge. Bless the man. On another note, Thank you, Alpenwolf. This is really the only server I truly enjoy. There are some real good guys (good as in decent people) playing here and the scenarios are very good (All except Allied Assault... I hate that one). I suggest you post your donation info in the Server Information of the Multiplayer selection screen. The flash message in the game not the best... goes by before I really copy down anything because I'm busy playing.

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21 hours ago, Sizzle said:

Forgive me for asking the obvious, but I don't really understand why this game breaking. If we know there is one player attacking EWRs why don't we just assign one fighter to defend it? Within 15 minutes, this fighter is sure to see some action.

Dweeb hunting doesn’t make for much fun plus this is happening quite a bit when there is no one to oppose it. 

 

 

 

 

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On 8/13/2021 at 7:46 PM, Alpenwolf said:

 

Well, it's always been up to Mi-8's and UH-1's to do that actually. In some cases additional EWR's spawn to replace destroyed ones, but that's limited nonetheless. And it's one player who seems to love doing nothing other than hunting EWR's all day long, and he's been doing it for a while. So once again, and just like the Viggen's bug exploit, we have one player who ruins the fun for everyone just so that he can enjoy himself.

 

No doubt it's an advantage to blind the enemy, but if it's the only task you have and you do nothing else but that all day long, then it really ruins the fun for everyone, which is why we're here in the first place. And because that results in players leaving the server, then you really should ask yourself, why you keep on doing it? Is that really fun or funny?

So, what now? Should I get in the ME and start adding EWR's and triggers and late activation because of one guy?! Or do I get rid of that one guy who's not breaking any rule, but ruining the fun for everyone? Deploying EWR's is yet another incentive for Helicopters to get to work. And now change that completely because of one guy?!

 

It's rather becoming more of a kindergarten as of late, and I'm sick of it. The community is not what it used to be with all the newbies coming in with a totally different mindset and approach to DCS than the good old veterans had. Veterans, who are slowly, but surely leaving DCS, and only show up from time to time to find out that they can't get along any more. Many of them are good friends who sometimes show up on TS for a good chat. Nothing more.

 

I don't know what else to tell you or what to do. The game itself, sometimes, gives an admin enough trouble to deal with. And nowadays, it's players as well! All the pm's, the complaints, the reports, etc., I mean, you guys don't see that. It's literally keeping me away from multiplayer. I find myself doing more single player these days. It's really quite there. And I missed things being more quite, I guess.

 

So, yes, you found another one. And it's not a bug really, mate. Nothing's wrong there actually. And sure enough you got the point now. Thanks for the heads up though and I mean it. You couldn't have known.

 

Okay, based on your last post when you said the same issue happening on Phone Booth was a bug, I thought it was a bug here too so I just wanted to share it.

 

The one thing I would like to add is that DCS multiplayer, and not specifically cold war but DCS in general, is that the multiplayer scene is very casual. I don't think this gets mentioned a lot because the risk/reward of doing things gets skewed very heavily. So for example, if you have a mission that 5 hours long and the EWRs go down 3 hours in. That leaves 2 hours of play time left. Spending the time to lift in a helicopter to go rebuild EWRs takes a long time. So in order to reap the benefits of rebuilding the EWRs is very limited. The mission is going to change. So the damage is actually compounded by the fact that there is little incentive to fix it.

 

Contrast that with IL-2 multiplayer where they have  persistent campaigns running. Anything you do will have an impact but the other side has enough time to reverse the damage and to commit the time into it. The IL-2 multiplayer scene is just much more competitive but that is because the game allows for that to happen.

 

The math doesn't make sense to fix the EWRs from a risk/reward benefit and when we reach that threshold, the fun on the server dies out.

 

Just my 2 cents. 

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Just now, Enigma89 said:

 

Okay, based on your last post when you said the same issue happening on Phone Booth was a bug, I thought it was a bug here too so I just wanted to share it.

 

The one thing I would like to add is that DCS multiplayer, and not specifically cold war but DCS in general, is that the multiplayer scene is very casual. I don't think this gets mentioned a lot because the risk/reward of doing things gets skewed very heavily. So for example, if you have a mission that 5 hours long and the EWRs go down 3 hours in. That leaves 2 hours of play time left. Spending the time to lift in a helicopter to go rebuild EWRs takes a long time. So in order to reap the benefits of rebuilding the EWRs is very limited. The mission is going to change. So the damage is actually compounded by the fact that there is little incentive to fix it.

 

Contrast that with IL-2 multiplayer where they have  persistent campaigns running. Anything you do will have an impact but the other side has enough time to reverse the damage and to commit the time into it. The IL-2 multiplayer scene is just much more competitive but that is because the game allows for that to happen.

 

The math doesn't make sense to fix the EWRs from a risk/reward benefit and when we reach that threshold, the fun on the server dies out.

 

Just my 2 cents. 

 

The thing is, this has never been an issue on the server. NEVER! All it takes is one guy and here we are talking about it. And you're wrong, it doesn't take that long to set up EWR's. 1-2 minutes to start up your Mi-8 or UH-1 (maybe 3 minutes for Mi-8's), 30-60 seconds to pick up the EWR crate (sometimes even quicker than that - depends on the player) and 2-3 minutes to carry it outside the FARP's/airbase's parameter to deploy it. It really is is just a couple of minutes. There's always been helicopter pilots willing to do that or deploy anything else of high impotance. I guess, with the one player ruining it for them like that made it less incentive to do the job.

 

If you or anyone else see him doing that again on the server, just warn him, please. Otherwise, and once again, I'm forced to react -__-

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Just now, Alpenwolf said:

 

The thing is, this has never been an issue on the server. NEVER! All it takes is one guy and here we are talking about it. And you're wrong, it doesn't take that long to set up EWR's. 1-2 minutes to start up your Mi-8 or UH-1 (maybe 3 minutes for Mi-8's), 30-60 seconds to pick up the EWR crate (sometimes even quicker than that - depends on the player) and 2-3 minutes to carry it outside the FARP's/airbase's parameter to deploy it. It really is is just a couple of minutes. There's always been helicopter pilots willing to do that or deploy anything else of high impotance. I guess, with the one player ruining it for them like that made it less incentive to do the job.

 

If you or anyone else see him doing that again on the server, just warn him, please. Otherwise, and once again, I'm forced to react -__-

My understanding was the EWRs had to be flown closer in and not just a few minutes away from the FOB so if that is the case then my calculation was wrong.

  

On 8/14/2021 at 6:49 AM, MarkMD said:

Hi guys, this topic is sore for some and fun for others.  I’m not trolling anyone with this message, and just wish to point out facts. 

I have seen this happen time after time and it is a fog of war tactic. Being a GCI, is more than just sending fighters in to shoot other fighters down. You are there to aid the battle in what ever you can. Move vehicles, set traps for fighters, drive vehicles and shoot the odd aircraft if they come within your envelope. 
I use all tactics of war and keep an open mind as to what the enemy is doing. Often I disable HAWK sites, EWR’s, reduce kill zones for more effective results, place ground vehicles in such a way to that they don’t all die with a single pass. 
Its your own fault if you lose the turn fight if you commit to it with not knowing how to BFM. Why complain if you don’t protect your equipment. 
 

I know it’s frustrating not having coverage, I’ve been there, it hurts. Do you see me writing about it in forums?  As a rhetorical question I’m not asking you to answer it, just take the time to help your team mates. Be the guy who helps others, and make the mission more fulfilling by guarding your sites.

 
DCS is built around the combined arms, it also gives you the tools to defend as well as attack. Your failure is in your hands. 

Im not asking for people to get upset with me, pointing out the obvious that we all know.  If you spent 30 minutes in a 4 hour mission taking turns you can have a memorable mission. You get just as much pleasure fighting as an E2 operator than a fighter pilot. Trust me, it’s not easy, but it’s worth the work. 
 

Thanks for taking the time to understand the bigger picture, Alpenwolf has a huge job, planning missions, and answering questions that with thought, could be resolved simply.

 

Enjoy the fight, help others and respect each other. 

Cheers,

Mike-Delta

 

I hate to break this to you but fog of war is a gimmick not a tactic in DCS. If you don't believe what I just wrote then ask yourself why people are consistently flying at tree top level in this game. The default AWACs in the game is garbage and the DCS spotting system may be the worst one in the air sim market.

 

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58 minutes ago, Enigma89 said:

...

...

The default AWACs in the game is garbage and the DCS spotting system may be the worst one in the air sim market.

 

 

And there's nothing I can do about it.

Years ago, I had the mission Phone Booth running without EWR's (actually, AWACS, as it was the case back in the day) for both sides. It was fine to try it out once or twice. After that players used to leave the server immediately when the mission went online, and at some point started asking for AWACS to be put back. So that "pilot project" failed right away.

So, either we're blind or we see everything! Even helicopters and while spooling up are sometimes spotted -__-


Edited by Alpenwolf

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Generally speaking, if one person is persistently doing something they know will make the other team miserable, they know full well what they're doing and will take a warning as encouragement if anything. This (along with people just randomly teamkilling friendly units for hours on end, bombing own airfields, etc.) is why people have asked for active moderation in the past and is why you end up getting messages here on the forums. It's all well and good to have a vision of how the mission is meant to be played and what kind of community you want, but as you said yourself, you haven't played so much lately. For those of us who do, it gets very frustrating very quickly.

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31 minutes ago, rossmum said:

Generally speaking, if one person is persistently doing something they know will make the other team miserable, they know full well what they're doing and will take a warning as encouragement if anything. This (along with people just randomly teamkilling friendly units for hours on end, bombing own airfields, etc.) is why people have asked for active moderation in the past and is why you end up getting messages here on the forums. It's all well and good to have a vision of how the mission is meant to be played and what kind of community you want, but as you said yourself, you haven't played so much lately. For those of us who do, it gets very frustrating very quickly.

 

Well, I haven't played very often lately because it's getting frustrating, mate. Players who teamkilled and bombed their airbases are still banned. Those remain banned! They didn't even reach out to me on the forums because they're probably not there anyway or just don't care at all. They'll just find another server where they can unleash their attitude again.

Reports about teamkilling like that are one thing and are important, while the messages I've been receiving lately are something else.

 

The EWR F-5 player will receive a last warning.

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1 hour ago, rossmum said:

Generally speaking, if one person is persistently doing something they know will make the other team miserable, they know full well what they're doing and will take a warning as encouragement if anything. This (along with people just randomly teamkilling friendly units for hours on end, bombing own airfields, etc.) is why people have asked for active moderation in the past and is why you end up getting messages here on the forums. It's all well and good to have a vision of how the mission is meant to be played and what kind of community you want, but as you said yourself, you haven't played so much lately. For those of us who do, it gets very frustrating very quickly.

I get it, but kinda disagree. It's within the parameters of the game and something that would be done even in real battles. Work a plan and stop him. Not having GCI to counter the actions by guiding aircraft to keep him occupied, and to shut down Hawk and EWR's when they are being hunted, and have the helicopters out dropping replacements is the greater fault. 


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If it's happening when the server's populated and teams are about even, I'd agree. I have previously said the same thing about defending airfields versus the "no bombing runways" rule.

 

On the other hand, people who single-mindedly go for this or that critical part of one team's infrastructure generally don't do it when there's a risk of them actually being intercepted. It can be a fun thing to have to protect your radar or airbase normally, but when you join the server and it's already been destroyed, where's the fun? Where's the challenge? Not everyone has helicopters to fly out a replacement, and if the teams are imbalanced, it can be impossible to even leave the FARP without being shot down.

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2 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

The thing is, this has never been an issue on the server. NEVER! All it takes is one guy and here we are talking about it. And you're wrong, it doesn't take that long to set up EWR's. 1-2 minutes to start up your Mi-8 or UH-1 (maybe 3 minutes for Mi-8's), 30-60 seconds to pick up the EWR crate (sometimes even quicker than that - depends on the player) and 2-3 minutes to carry it outside the FARP's/airbase's parameter to deploy it. It really is is just a couple of minutes. There's always been helicopter pilots willing to do that or deploy anything else of high impotance. I guess, with the one player ruining it for them like that made it less incentive to do the job.

 

If you or anyone else see him doing that again on the server, just warn him, please. Otherwise, and once again, I'm forced to react -__-

 

The primary issue with this is the fact that we are doing this, on Two Towns when I was speaking with you we did this a total of 5 TIMES. The FARP was being obliterated and in addition once the job was DONE, it got taken out instantaneously (within 3 minutes of placement). It's just not as simply as it potentially CAN BE. It also really is not as simple as being able to just 'stop' it. After all, only if we had all aspects only then could that argument be made. (Not saying we should have all-aspects just that it is a prerequisite for being able to stop that)


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4 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

Well, I haven't played very often lately because it's getting frustrating, mate. Players who teamkilled and bombed their airbases are still banned. Those remain banned! They didn't even reach out to me on the forums because they're probably not there anyway or just don't care at all. They'll just find another server where they can unleash their attitude again.

Reports about teamkilling like that are one thing and are important, while the messages I've been receiving lately are something else.

 

The EWR F-5 player will receive a last warning.

As someone who focuses on your mission goals as opposed to playing air quake, I agree with his tactic. I will take out the EWRs if it means mission success. Especially if CAP impedes my goal.

 

There appears to be more and more unspoken rules continually put in place to support the air quake effort, so going forward I will join your server when I feel like some air quake, and not concern myself with the briefing.

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On 8/14/2021 at 1:46 AM, Alpenwolf said:

 

I don't know what else to tell you or what to do. The game itself, sometimes, gives an admin enough trouble to deal with. And nowadays, it's players as well! All the pm's, the complaints, the reports, etc., I mean, you guys don't see that. It's literally keeping me away from multiplayer. I find myself doing more single player these days. It's really quite there. And I missed things being more quite, I guess.

 

Hey man, Im quite new to DCS and your server his the main reason I enjoy it so much. So thank you for keeping it up despite the problems! You are the man!

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6 hours ago, BodyOrgan said:

...

There appears to be more and more unspoken rules continually put in place to support the air quake effort, so going forward I will join your server when I feel like some air quake, and not concern myself with the briefing.

 

Yeah, I better write a whole book of rules! Might become a bestseller too.

 

All servers have the same rules more or less; Don't teamkill, use comms (SRS/TS/Discord/etc.), then there is the politically correct part of it; Be nice to each other, don't swear, etc. Nothing else is really needed, unless players start causing problems!

 

Attacking airbases was always a welcome option. At some point it became everyone's favourite option and mostly the only main option! Players did that, which caused frustration among other players, and I had to react. Now, take this one old example from the very first weeks and months of the server's "life span" (ACG as it was) and apply it to all the problems I've been encountering ever since. Some of you just always tend to forget who causes these major issues, which then pushes me yet again into the corner, where I have to react, knowing it will never be perfect or live up to everyone's standards. Not saying that I've ever tried to please everyone. That's just impossible and is not the issue here.

 

You of all people should know better being around the server all those years how things are changing in a very inconvenient way. Back in the day problems like this were rare. Nowadays, it's becoming some sort of a regularity! You're one of the OG's who are still around where most of them just left as I've mentioned multiple times. The admin part of me is still here, however, the player in me goes online only occasionally. Therefore, I fully understand how annoying it's become to players like yourself with rules and restrictions popping up every now and then.

 

Maybe this is like everything in life. The OG's move on and newcomers take over. And that's exactly what I meant in one of my recent posts saying, I don't know if it's worth it any more. I really don't.

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5 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

Yeah, I better write a whole book of rules! Might become a bestseller too.

 

All servers have the same rules more or less; Don't teamkill, use comms (SRS/TS/Discord/etc.), then there is the politically correct part of it; Be nice to each other, don't swear, etc. Nothing else is really needed, unless players start causing problems!

 

Attacking airbases was always a welcome option. At some point it became everyone's favourite option and mostly the only main option! Players did that, which caused frustration among other players, and I had to react. Now, take this one old example from the very first weeks and months of the server's "life span" (ACG as it was) and apply it to all the problems I've been encountering ever since. Some of you just always tend to forget who causes these major issues, which then pushes me yet again into the corner, where I have to react, knowing it will never be perfect or live up to everyone's standards. Not saying that I've ever tried to please everyone. That's just impossible and is not the issue here.

 

You of all people should know better being around the server all those years how things are changing in a very inconvenient way. Back in the day problems like this were rare. Nowadays, it's becoming some sort of a regularity! You're one of the OG's who are still around where most of them just left as I've mentioned multiple times. The admin part of me is still here, however, the player in me goes online only occasionally. Therefore, I fully understand how annoying it's become to players like yourself with rules and restrictions popping up every now and then.

 

Maybe this is like everything in life. The OG's move on and newcomers take over. And that's exactly what I meant in one of my recent posts saying, I don't know if it's worth it any more. I really don't.

Your server is the best PvP experience to be found in DCS. I hope you don't stop doing what you do but I totally get why you might. 

 

I made this video from a Cold War sortie a few weeks ago. The first spoken words in the video say it all.

 

 

 


Edited by =475FG= Dawger
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On 8/14/2021 at 2:09 PM, =475FG= Dawger said:

I don't disagree with anything you said.

 

Winning the war while killing the server is not a winning proposition.

 

Some common sense must come into play.

 

If one player is determined to do nothing but blind the other side at the expense of the server population in general, something should be done.

 

Personally, I would ask the player to stop this behavior and if the response was anything along the lines of "If you don't like it, build the server to stop me from doing it" then I would immediately ban this person. That is the attitude that ruins the experience for everyone else and makes a server operator's life miserable.

 

Some people play purely to bring grief to others or to stroke their own egos. The easiest solution is to exclude those players from playing where this behavior is not appreciated.

 

Many DCS groups avoid this by putting their servers behind a password.

 

If we want a public server run by a community volunteer, we have to behave ourselves and support the server operator's decisions regarding those who cannot behave themselves.

I agree of what you say. 

 

I spoke to the person in question, and he was not aware of the problem that he was creating.  I spoke with him and he is within his right to keep doing what he is doing, but for the health of the server, he'll reduce the impact of his effectiveness and not purposely destroy all ewr's..

 

Last night I and another pilot came across an EWR, yes we destroyed it, and I don't have issues with it.  We don't get ewr reports in the huey, but seeing it was a bonus for us.  2x cub sites and an ewr for 2 huey's and return home was fantastic. 

 

It's the reason we enjoy this server.  

 

Mike-Delta

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On 8/15/2021 at 12:40 AM, Zachrix said:

 

Because A) There are no name tags over people because we don't have a GCI 75% of the time. B) I have tried this because I am not an idiot, and my result is that after the merge he flies at mach 1.05 (which is barely catchable let alone gaining close enough separation to launch) and there is simply nothing that can be done. In addition to that we have no idea where he is because ofc, we dont have a GCI and before you know it he's gotten the EWR 

Your a great DCS pilot, you don't need the EWR or a GCI, I send my best pilots against you.  Take it as a compliment, not a critisam.  I wish you had a GCI on the RED team as dedicated as I am, it may happen, who knows.  I'm thinking of how to resolve this.  I don't like people changing sides, but to give the server the better chance of enjoyment by me changing sides troubles me.  I know what tactic's are used, how they deploy, christ, I taught most of how things should be done.  

The thing is, this happens to us on a number of occations, I've spent hours working like a dog trying to stop the waves of fighters, helicoptors, and BMP's.

I finnish in sweat, but knowing that was a great battle, not once have I ever asked for help.

 

Sometimes, life is like a box of chocolates.

 

See you in the next fight,

Mike-Delta...

On 8/15/2021 at 2:19 AM, Miccara said:

I've only been playing this game for about 3 months now. Mike-Delta has been indispensable in improving my learning curve. The guy is soooo knowledgeable, and freely shares that knowledge. Bless the man. On another note, Thank you, Alpenwolf. This is really the only server I truly enjoy. There are some real good guys (good as in decent people) playing here and the scenarios are very good (All except Allied Assault... I hate that one). I suggest you post your donation info in the Server Information of the Multiplayer selection screen. The flash message in the game not the best... goes by before I really copy down anything because I'm busy playing.

Thanks,

I'm feel hubbled.

 

Mike-Delta

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