sc_neo Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 @borchi 2b and Damcopter I appreciate you guys getting together to look into things that might be improved or changed. I am sure any piece of software in general, or dcs module in particular, can always be tweaked and made better independently of the maturity of the product at the time. And the devs being open and welcoming to a new perspective that can shed a different light on their product is commendable. Keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow84 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Thank you for your efforts, Damcopter. Most of us who can discern the FM problems have given up on trying to even explain them to the fanboys. Last time I tried, some master of dispassionate reasoned argument referred to me as a "turd", so good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damcopter Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Polychop and me will perform a test flight tonight. They seem to be very open-minded and they want to enhance the FM of the Gazelle. We have already spoken on Discord yesterday and the work in front of them will probably be huge, according to what I've told them... so we will have to be patient for the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Tigre. Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Great news, thanks to you and Polychop for what you are doing :) :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kam Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Polychop and me will perform a test flight tonight. They seem to be very open-minded and they want to enhance the FM of the Gazelle. We have already spoken on Discord yesterday and the work in front of them will probably be huge, according to what I've told them... so we will have to be patient for the result. Excellent, I want to feel that fenestron and make my feet work! Intel 5820k | Asus X-99A | Crucial 16GB | Powercolor Devil RX580 8GB | Win 10 x64 | Oculus Rift | https://gallery.ksotov.co.uk Patiently waiting for: DCS: Panavia Tornado, DCS: SA-2 Guideline, DCS: SA-3 Goa, DCS: S-300 Grumble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizzy Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 There are 4 points to discuss: 1: behaviour of the frame under the rotor 2: correspondence between the cyclic position and the attitude of the helicoptere 3: attitude during big movement of the collective lever (roll and pitch) 4: lack of inertia. Apparent weight especially at maximum TakeOff weight... I am really happy if we could work together in order to improve this beautiful chopper. All the DCS community will be able to access these impovements. Great... Excellent interaction with Polychop, lets hope these discussions end up with a more realistic FM. I have heard these same points several times from RL experienced folk.. and they can be easily demonstrated... I suspend reality to those points but still really enjoy the tactical experience this great crafted model offers. :thumbup: Damcopter :thumbup: Polychop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviscerador Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Good, any improvements on this module will be welcomed indeed! I have to say that for me, as a casual user, the FM is challenging enough, but if they can keep polishing it it will be wonderful. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfhoundCH Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Eviscerador I think the FM will still be challenging for a casual user, although maybe a little bit easier, but it will never be as easy and forgiving as a Huey or Mi-8, simply because the rotor does have less inertia and it is a light helicopter. But I'm really looking forward for those many discrepancies in the FM being ironed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcarrel Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 At a minimum, if inertia was added, it would be a great improvement Win 10 64 bit Intel I-7 7700K 32GB Ram Nvidia Geforce GTX 1060 6gig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortinero Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Huey all day, Gazelle FM is like fly a RC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swatstar98 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Huey all day, Gazelle FM is like fly a RC. Sorry to say, but UH flight model is not as realistic as you think! ;). Next time don't post useless things! Thnx Chinook lover - Rober - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert31178 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Sorry to say, but UH flight model is not as realistic as you think! ;). Next time don't post useless things! Thnx That's not what some Huey pilots have said....but what do they know anyways eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swatstar98 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 That's not what some Huey pilots have said....but what do they know anyways eh? You didn't get what i meant. I was talking about our hardware. The joystick we use, don't match with the real helicopter, so we will never have exactly the same experience like a real one. Anyway, DCS Huey have 4 more years than Gazelle, and it didn't have implemented EGT until last year, so maybe just stating this is bullshit, without helping, it's nonsense. And once this is said, this post was about our preference, no about FMs. Chinook lover - Rober - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert31178 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 You're right, I don't know what you meant because you should have not said "UH flight model" and instead stated something closer to "current joystick tech", especially if you're going to blow someone up for their perceived dumbassery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 i will like gaz and huey more, if they give the doorgunner proper multiplayer support! find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 I have no idea about the Gazelle real flight performance, but it just feels wrong in DCS. I did fly her maybe 6-9 months ago and it was back then just a "driving on rails" kind experience. Way too easy to handle accurately and do the maneuvers as it didn't have any "float" nor "inertia" that KA-50 or Mi-8 does have. It really was more like a flying some old late 90's simulators like "Gunship!" or like flying in ARMA 2. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swatstar98 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 I have no idea about the Gazelle real flight performance, but it just feels wrong in DCS. I did fly her maybe 6-9 months ago and it was back then just a "driving on rails" kind experience. Way too easy to handle accurately and do the maneuvers as it didn't have any "float" nor "inertia" that KA-50 or Mi-8 does have. It really was more like a flying some old late 90's simulators like "Gunship!" or like flying in ARMA 2. PC did a FM change after that so try it again! And as I said, this is not the thread for this! Chinook lover - Rober - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 PC did a FM change after that so try it again! And as I said, this is not the thread for this! May I ask what Hotas setup you are using Swatstar ? And what pedals ? Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swatstar98 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 May I ask what Hotas setup you are using Swatstar ? And what pedals ? Thx HOTAS Warthog and Saited rudder pedals. https://www.saitek.com/uk/prod-bak/pedals.html Link for the rudder Chinook lover - Rober - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotor633 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 The gazelle is not an option for me, in its current state. I have not played this module for nearly a year. If so, I'm mostly on the Mi-8. And hopefully soon with the modernized Ka-50 module :-) ************************************** DCS World needs the Panavia Tornado! Really! ************************************** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireNZ Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) @Damcopter : Just drop me a personal message and we can discuss certain aspects. We can also share our real names that way and if it is ok for you I would forward the information to the commander of Le Luc, who invited us already to see the base and the flightschool for a day or 2. I am open to any professional discussion and would send the information gatherred in a private discussion forward to a buddy of mine who flys the Gazelle for the french special forces. So this 'promising' consultation and investigation into the correct aircraft performance between yourself and Damcopter happened a year ago now - did these improvements/refinements in the FM ever eventuate, or was it all just hot air? Actions speak louder than words. Did your 'buddy who flies for the special forces' assist with FM refinements? Edited September 10, 2019 by VampireNZ Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 | Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polychop Simulations Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 There is no need for such a tone in your messages, we're always open for discussion. I understand your sentiment though as it takes a long time. We're in contact with 2 SME's other than Damcopter in order to prepare for a flightmodel update. I'm repeating myself but I want to be clear on this; Polychop is a small team and we're working on a new module, with different approaches to flightmodel coding, graphics etc. This new module will pave the way for Gazelle updates. In the mean time any Gazelle updates will be critical bugfixes, which we're working on as well. Community Manager Account DrummerNL [TABLE][/TABLE] Discord - Facebook - Gazelle sitreps[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC145 Pilot Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 I never knew about the Gazelle. I will download it tonight. I just got back into DCS again since I started using VR (what a game changer!)... I am also very EXCITED about the Kiowa Warrior and looking forward to it. BTW I have numerous REAL pilot friends and coworkers with 10’s of thousands of hours of combined OH-58D combat time, if you need any additional consultation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC145 Pilot Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Ok. My take on the Gazelle vs. Huey Disclaimer: DCS is a simulation. Helicopters are inherantly difficult to simulate, due to all of the aerodynamics involved. DCS does provide a pretty good flight environment model though; and its been demonstrated by the first three helicopters. The other issue is lack of proprioceptive/vestibular motion and the availability of realistic simulator flight controls. It will never be true to life, but a good developer realizes this and adjusts accordingly. With that being said, I loaded up the Huey with my MS FFB2, CH throttle (strapped to the side of my chair with reverse axis to simulate collective), and my cheap saitek pedals. I was able to pick the huey right up to a hover and with very little practice, it became familiar as a helicopter and easy to fly. With no SCAS/SAS/stability it is a workload, and that is very well simulated. You can feel its performance change, based on DA and weight. It takes good attention and power management to fly. The Gazelle, on the other hand, is horrible in contrast to not only the Huey, but every sim helicopter I’ve ever tried since 2004. I can tweak the excessively sensitive controls as needed and its awkward for me as I’m not used to flying clockwise main rotor aircraft, but this thing just does not fly realistically at all. How does it have so much power? I fly IRL daily in a dual 760 shaft hp bird by the same manufacturer and even on a low density altitude day at 2000 lbs under max gross, I would overtorque the shit out of the main transmission and hit N1 engine limits trying to give it the power that this single 590 hp Gazelle engine simulates in DCS. I get its a rigid rotor system and the cyclic is sensitive. That doesn’t mean it has to become even more sensitive in the sim. Force trim should also work properly. It does on the other three DCS helicopters. My favorite test of any sim helicopter is autorotations. I get that the Gaxelle has a very low inertia rotor system using fiberglass reinforced plastic blades, but at a 100 knot autorotational entry, I should be able to maintain NRO at >60 kts and maintain a glide rate commesurate with airspeed. This is a single engine combat aircraft. Its ability to propey autorotate is critical. I kinda regret spending the money on it. You guys at PC really need to go back to the drawing board. I can understand why so many of your customers are upset. Graphics wise, its a great looking model. I would add a little more bright contrast in the cockpit to make the gauges more readable. I hope you do a much better job on the Kiowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Turn off forcefeedback. The "feature" is dead and it messes with the controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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