Modern Air combat

[uboats]

They will be listed as different planes in the editor.

For example: MiG-21 and MiG-21 MAC.

 

source or you guess?

[Fri13]

MiG-21 pilots already kinda "cheat" with hotas full of buttons and scripts. Nothing will change with FC4.

 

Since starting to use a Oculus Touch Controllers in VR when ED added the support for it, I have totally changed the HOTAS binding methods. I only bind the functions that are there in real stick and throttle, and everything else I do with the touch controllers. It is faster and easier to grab a controller from the lap to operate aircraft than using a mouse. And can be said that mouse users are actually cheating even more because they don't need to move hands much and they are not limited to the operations in heat of the combat.

It is totally different thing to raise arm to press something or flip something with touch controller than it is with a mouse.

 

And it puts totally different context to flying aircraft with touch controllers than with a mouse, as you can't use one hand to do all, and you notice how critical it is to get many of the controls right so you don't need to operate them at the wrong time and at the wrong moment.

 

It can as well be said that TrackIR users are cheating because they can so easily look around, and they zoom constantly in to see something better.

Instead when you are in VR, you can't easily look at your six, why you are relying to your wingman to check your six. It is more difficult to look down with VR than with TrackIR. Forget the zooms, you are there with the HUD and your normal 90 degree FOV and you must know how to aim and hit the target without magical 10x scope.

 

So when a VR player and TrackIR player goes to merge, the other has big benefit in tracking what is happening around. But it has blowback effect, as VR user learns quickly how important it is to do see through the maneuvers and operate the aircraft correctly because the limitations. And that makes them eventually better pilots as they become more efficient.

 

Simple tasks like a rocket run is totally different job to do in VR than with TrackIR or camera angles. As you concentrate to do the attack directions more carefully and you do the attacks knowing that once you pull off, you can't easily see did you hit something or not.

And that makes more immersive experience to fly when you are leaning in your chair to see better around you, while with trackIR and camera angles you just look around without much effort.

 

Would be interesting to see ED to implement the G-lock effects etc. Where when you are pulling more G, you can't operate anything in the cockpit than your HOTAs. So even if you can swing your mouse around or press a button, nothing would happen as in reality you would have difficulties to move your hands, look around etc.

 

That would put a lot of requirements for virtual pilots to fly correctly, avoid G forces, prepare for the combat and procedures as you just don't be there pulling high G without negative effects cumulating and making your next maneuvers even more dangerous than previous ones because your virtual body would start to stress and stamina wear out and suddenly you would notice that even pulling 3-4 G would start to dim your vision considerably.

[NineLine]

Just one simple question. Will the advanced flight model for the MiG-29 be free for FC3 owners or do we have to buy update to MAC?

 

MiG-29 will be the same for both FC3 and upgrade to MAC, so any updates will apply to both.

[Fri13]

They will be listed as different planes in the editor.

For example: MiG-21 and MiG-21 MAC.

 

That is little sad decision. Would have been nice that the player who jumps to aircraft would limit the features they can do. But this must be something about the core mechanics in DCS... What is little odd considering that even full fidelity modules all have the "game mode" as well.

[Mars Exulte]

The 29 pfm was already due, smh... You really think they're going to update every aircraft but one and make you pay for it? They already updated the 3d model, and ALREADY said they're doing the 29.

 

Some of these are just dumb questions @@

[Nirvi]

source or you guess?

 

Official comment on the ED facebook page.

[dopebogey]

 

I see the MAC to be excellent package to gift people who would want to fly, but are not ready to put time to read the 300 page manual, learn all about aviation, operating specific module and then buy the HOTAS and VR and all and then spend tens of hours more to learn to do the procedures to get stuff go BOOM.

 

Instead now you can gift 14 aircraft to a friend, who is flying with a simple joystick and keyboard or even just with a mouse and keyboard and have fun together. Get their interest triggered, lure them in for flight simulators and possibly they are soon buying their favorite full fidelity version of something to get more controls for it.

 

I agree. This will be great for newcomers. The DCS gateway drug...haha. the more the merry I say. :D

 

Oh, and everyone keeps saying this is FC4, but if they want to be that way then this would be more like "Lock On Modern Combat 5 or 7(depending on how you look at it)". The first Flaming Cliffs was "Lock On: Flaming Cliffs"

 

1. LOMAC(Lock On Modern Combat)

2. LOMAC v1.02

3. Lock On: Flaming Cliffs

4. Flaming Cliffs v1.12b (edit per =4c=Nikola)

5. Flaming Cliffs 2

6. Flaming Cliffs 3

7. MAC

 

Anyways, I would probably buy this. I love my Study level sims and I do not like on the super arcady titles, but now and then I like to just jump in and do some quick missions and have fun with something that's in between. This would truly be pretty awesome for new simmers. 14 Aircraft at this detail is pretty amazing! I would have loved this if I was first starting out.

Edited July 13, 2018 by walleye62

[HiJack]

MiG-29 will be the same for both FC3 and upgrade to MAC, so any updates will apply to both.

Thank you. Will most lightly buy the full license for MAC to support ED anyway but good to know. :thumbup:

[=4c=Nikola]

@walleye62

You forgot FC 1.12b

[CGReload]

I think this is a great idea and hope that it brings more players to our community. My only gripe is that I I spent so much on the recent Summer sale... If I'd of known about this Id of waited since I prefer the simple models instead, plus this seems to contain the models that I purchased.

 

Anyway, still a happy camper and looking forward to learning more.

[HiJack]

@walleye62

You forgot FC 1.12b

 

No, that is number three in the list.

[Bogey Jammer]

They will be listed as different planes in the editor.

For example: MiG-21 and MiG-21 MAC.

 

Will the legacy FC3 aircraft get that MAC suffix too ?

 

This is an upgrade to FC3, so its a DCS World Module.

 

This is the best clarification. That answers all my questions (and I'm not worried anymore)

Edited July 13, 2018 by Bogey Jammer
removed excessive automatic returns

[Pasquale1986]

MiG-29 will be the same for both FC3 and upgrade to MAC, so any updates will apply to both.

 

Will all cockpits e.g. of the F-15C be brought up to date as well with the release of MAC?

[maxTRX]

... What is little odd considering that even full fidelity modules all have the "game mode" as well.

 

I forgot about that... never even bothered looking in that option. So... yep, good point.

[HiJack]

That is little sad decision. Would have been nice that the player who jumps to aircraft would limit the features they can do. But this must be something about the core mechanics in DCS... What is little odd considering that even full fidelity modules all have the "game mode" as well.

 

The "game mode" is a completely different game all together.MAC will be simple but "normal" radar and lock.

[dopebogey]

@walleye62

You forgot FC 1.12b

 

DOH!:doh: your right. So we are at version 7...haha:D

 

Or is that the first flaming cliffs?

Edited July 13, 2018 by walleye62

[=4c=Nikola]

DOH!:doh: your right. So we are at version 7...haha:D

 

Or is that the fisr flaming cliffs?

 

It's was patch for FC. Same like 1.02 patch for 1.00 :)

[blkspade]

My personal preference would be a slot for both aircraft, but then have the option to restrict it to the full-fidelity version with a checkbox. This would keep the slots down, allow both MAC and FF birds in the same flight, but could also prevent frustration or exploit as required.

 

This now enters an area I've complained about at length a long time ago, complicating MP mission design. The predetermined fixed slot system is stupid for multiplayer missions. Its a system that's painfully obvious was designed for static single player missions that basically had multiplayer shoehorned in. The UI in general has never been very ergonomic for MP use.

 

A much smarter system would rely on the already existing warehouse system that simply says X Aircraft exists at Y airfield or not. Per coalition Then automate spawn locations. Then Waypoints could be simplified as either one set per coalition or per role. The aircraft load-outs are already determined by the ME role option, but are just spat out in one continuous list. You rather instantly remove a lot of work that would go into building (and maintaining) a dynamic MP mission.

[twistking]

will the "portions of Nevada and the Persian Gulf" be available for everyone, or just for owners of a MAC aircraft?

[dopebogey]

It's was patch for FC. Same like 1.02 patch for 1.00 :)

 

Gotach! :thumbup:

I think about the changes since those days...pretty amazing, especially now with VR!

[=4c=Nikola]

Gotach! :thumbup:

I think about the changes since those days...pretty amazing, especially now with VR!

 

Yea, I had nice memories. Until I installed lock on few months ago - it's awful for today standards :)

[Boberro]

Not as good as I thought, for me only worthy plane is Chinese copy of Su-27. The rest is just meatball.

[HiJack]

It's was patch for FC. Same like 1.02 patch for 1.00 :)

 

Yes, I would say MAC should really be number 5 :smilewink:

[NineLine]

will the "portions of Nevada and the Persian Gulf" be available for everyone, or just for owners of a MAC aircraft?

 

MAC Owners, and single player only.

[dopebogey]

Yes, I would say MAC should really be number 5 :smilewink:

 

Ya, I guess that would be more sense. But I do remember they were pretty big patches. LOMAC v1.02 definitely was. But MAC surely isn't FC4 ;)

 

Yea, I had nice memories. Until I installed lock on few months ago - it's awful for today standards :)

 

WOW..You were able to get it to work? That's pretty amazing...haha:D

Edited July 13, 2018 by walleye62