in development Vulkan API Discussion

[snowsniper]

Vulkan seems to be the futur high perf engine for multiple objects in sims

 

100 FPS with Vulkan, 30 FPS with OpenGL/direct X

 

https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/vulkan-next-big-thing-flight-sim/

 

https://developer.nvidia.com/Vulkan

 

Is it something ED is looking at ( as Laminar does with XP) ?

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Very interesting, although Nvidia is having a hard time with vulkan...anyway, looking how much time consuming it was/is to migrate to DX11 and such in DCS, I wont be very confident about Vulkan for DCS...

[joey45]

Probably for the 3rd revision of DCS in about 5 years time.

[OnlyforDCS]

Vulcan is a special version of OpenGL. Just as an FYI. In any case you can't make a direct comparison because there isn't one. A game needs to be able to support OpenGL before it can run on Vulcan, and to get very high framerates with the Vulcan API it needs to be designed from the ground up for it.

 

So, the answer to your question is probably no, this is something that Eagle Dynamics would not be looking at unless they plan on doing the whole engine from scratch. Again.

[kunterbunt]

If ever then DCS would probably rather move to DX12, which has similar approach. The idea is to make better use of multi threading of the CPU. Most tests use low level CPU to show off how much better it is compared to previous versions.

[Buzzles]

So, the answer to your question is probably no, this is something that Eagle Dynamics would not be looking at unless they plan on doing the whole engine from scratch. Again.

 

While I do agree with your conclusion, iirc the move to 1.5 (unified exe + EDGE) was precisely to decouple a lot of things in order to more easily introduce new graphics engine's.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

If ever then DCS would probably rather move to DX12, which has similar approach. The idea is to make better use of multi threading of the CPU. Most tests use low level CPU to show off how much better it is compared to previous versions.

 

Agree with you :thumbup:

[joey45]

When DX12 and Vulkan become more mature in the next couple of years then we'll find out.

[FragBum]

Vulcan is a special version of OpenGL. Just as an FYI. In any case you can't make a direct comparison because there isn't one. A game needs to be able to support OpenGL before it can run on Vulcan, and to get very high framerates with the Vulcan API it needs to be designed from the ground up for it.

 

I think this is the point moving forward. ;)

[BitMaster]

No way, not even in 5 years tho i would love to see this happen.

 

If you rewrite for Vulcan, you might as well make it Linux compatible from that day on, and include MacOS as well...that all goes hand in hand...IF...you redo the codebase. I just dont see any chance this happens before I retire...I am 47!

[snowsniper]

finally ...

:music_whistling:

 

see 29/12 newsletter.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3338291&postcount=124

 

good news.

[Worrazen]

MELTDOWN

 

I just let out a huge scream at 4:30 AM - probably waking someone up.

 

 

"Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooho - painful hand claps - yesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Allright, let's keep realistic expectations in mind, that reaction was just for the surprise not for some magical super-speed performance, CPU will still be mainly more important than a GPU let's not forget that, but man that was a great surprise.

 

EDIT: It's was perfect because I saw the video announcement for the stream first, some time passed then I saw the news post, and was naturally expecting on the progress of 2.5 but it was all calm and mature-behaving, then it was all reflex reaction ... I think this one definitely goes to the top 5 of my life's surprises in terms of how fast and massive the adrenalin rush and genuine emotional expression is, quite possibly number 3 or 2, right after number 1, the Metroid Prime 4 announcement trailer ( and that's a whole other story how could just a few letters on screen do that)

 

EDIT: Wait ... Vulkan API isn't on the list of 2018 ... yikes, so it's not a guarantee so soon.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Worrazen

[Davee]

 

EDIT: Wait ... Vulkan API isn't on the list of 2018 ... yikes, so it's not a guarantee so soon.

 

From Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/eagle.dynamics/posts/10159864257830341

 

DCS World Newsletter

29 December 2017

Happy Holidays!

 

 

"Several other unannounced projects We will also be working on improvements to clouds, explosions with improved proximity damage, virtual reality, spotting system, network play, Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR), air-to-air missiles, and performance optimization with the inclusion of the Vulkan API. In parallel, we will continue to support and improve our existing modules."

[SkateZilla]

finally ...

:music_whistling:

 

see 29/12 newsletter.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3338291&postcount=124

 

good news.

 

It was stated prior to the 12/29/2017 Newsletter:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=196539

[HiJack]

Vulcan is a special version of OpenGL. Just as an FYI. In any case you can't make a direct comparison because there isn't one. A game needs to be able to support OpenGL before it can run on Vulcan, and to get very high framerates with the Vulcan API it needs to be designed from the ground up for it.

 

So, the answer to your question is probably no, this is something that Eagle Dynamics would not be looking at unless they plan on doing the whole engine from scratch. Again.

 

That is all wrong! it's a new graphics API renderer with a simpler, thinner driver, and efficient CPU multi-threading capabilities. Compared to DirectX or OpenGL, Vulkan has less latency and overhead, and can help your system reach new levels of performance. In simpler terms, Vulkan can help developers avoid CPU bottlenecks that limit performance, and can improve performance elsewhere, too. IT replaces both DirectX and OpenGL and will run smooth on AMD as well as nVidia cards.

[SkateZilla]

Vulkan is more or less AMD's Mantle API.

[BitMaster]

Full throttle towards Vulkan please :)

[HiJack]

Full throttle towards Vulkan please :)

 

+1

[Pikey]

Knowing how anti competitive Microsoft can be, I'm not blown away by the news of Vulkan like everyone else seems to be! I can't help being worried at how MS will respond by creating features that are required and intrinsic to the OS is some silly way like nearly every other tech we have fought for (cough... browsers). I was also wondering if this was some effort by ED to look at multiplatform OS for DCS:W ... Either of the tech trees are important to look at early, but it's a way down the road, the last engine update cost us two years waiting, and the visuals in DCS are way above the other issues in the Engine to have me personally panting for it. :)

[BitMaster]

With Vulkan, you can free up a lot of CPU, that is what most lack, CPU cycles !

 

I think this is a good move and it will grab MANY performance problems at their root cause, too slow CPU for loaded missions, not even a 6G Intel could run them now.

 

ALso, get mGPU working, heck,...a 1080Ti + a 2080Ti + an AMD..etc.. great. That makes VERY MUCH sense.

Edited January 2, 2018 by BitMaster

[Pilotasso]

what we need next is to spread the game logic onto more logical cores not just the graphics rendering part. Vulkan is nevertheless a huge welcome step in the multithreading direction. :)

[Fri13]

With Vulkan, you can free up a lot of CPU, that is what most lack, CPU cycles !

 

I think this is a good move and it will grab MANY performance problems at their root cause, too slow CPU for loaded missions, not even a 6G Intel could run them now.

 

ALso, get mGPU working, heck,...a 1080Ti + a 2080Ti + an AMD..etc.. great. That makes VERY MUCH sense.

 

Vulcan is not to free up the CPU, it is to share the load from single or two core to all cores that CPU has.

 

The whole idea is to add a multi-core support for the graphic heavy games as currently it is all about single core performance for graphics in all games and this causes that all cores are just running low and GPU waiting when the single CPU core is processing, waiting a specific operation to finish before continuing to another operation.

And when the multi-thread support comes out, GPU gets full utilization as it doesn't need to wait a CPU and so on can run multiple different graphical elements parallel, instead linearly.

 

The current problem is not that we don't have CPU cycles, but we only use a fraction of them!

A DCS uses only two cores, one for a sound and one for everything else. So if you have a 8 core CPU, then you are really using only a 1/8 of the cores for the DCS (excluding the sound now). Now what you think would happen when a Vulkan allows one to utilize all 8 cores?

[Fri13]

what we need next is to spread the game logic onto more logical cores not just the graphics rendering part. Vulkan is nevertheless a huge welcome step in the multithreading direction. :)

 

Exactly that I would like to see.

 

The DCS runs amazingly well when you are the only single aircraft in the area.

Add 2x10 AI ground units to move and you are dropping frames and a lot. And when those units takes contact by getting to their hardcoded LOS range, FPS drops like crazy.

 

That is like 140-180 FPS to drop first to 25-30FPS and then finally in engagement starting to 5-7 FPS.

 

So what would happen if all the AI logic etc would be off-loaded to a two cores? One core per side? One core per side + one core per ground or air units? One extra core for all projectiles and explosions?

[remi]

Vulkan + DCS would be an amazing product. Glad to know ED is working on it.

[cichlidfan]

One core per side? One core per side + one core per ground or air units? One extra core for all projectiles and explosions?

 

That would be coding nightmare.