in development Vulkan API Discussion

[DigitalEngine]

I asked this in the Official Newsletter thread, however, the question got quickly overrun by "the guerilla" in the thread.
So I'm re-asking the question here.

Were any of the scenes in the "2025 AND BEYOND" video rendered using a Vulkan API version of DCS? (DCS 3.0?)  

[kerlcat]

5 hours ago, DigitalEngine said:

Were any of the scenes in the "2025 AND BEYOND" video rendered using a Vulkan API version of DCS? (DCS 3.0?)  

Same doubts here. Anyone noticed any graphics which only Vulcan could produce? 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

13 hours ago, kerlcat said:

Anyone noticed any graphics which only Vulkan could produce?

I don't think that's how it works. Sure, ED's long-term goal with Vulkan is to include effects that would slow things down to a crawl on DX11, but the first iterations are likely just for compatibility: if ED can show that Vulkan can do what DX11 can do currently in a wide range of use cases without being slower, it can be considered a success and a good foundation to build upon with better effects coming later on.
I bet that process will take multiple years.

The effects as seen in the video are, until proven otherwise, the result of clever post-process video editing... That's how I see it.

Edited January 19 by Raven (Elysian Angel)

[DigitalEngine]

After watching the 2025 AND BEYOUND video a few more times, paying close attention to the effects (new explosions, fires, smoke, lighting direct & indirect, smoothness in animation), in the first two minutes of the video especially, I'm suspecting more than not, it may have been rendered using a Vulkan API version of DCS (DCS 3.0?). It certainly appears as if ED was making an effort to showoff these effects for sure.

Which may indicated DCS 3.0 is coming this year?

 

Edited January 19 by DigitalEngine

[Dangerzone]

8 hours ago, DigitalEngine said:

Which may indicated DCS 3.0 is coming this year?

Thing is... when they did it with DLSS, they had no issues with disclosing some video footage was done with DLSS.  Nothing has been said here, so if anything it probably points to DLSS being further away than what DLSS was when they did the 2024 and beyond one?

Obviously this is all complete speculation - with nothing being said we don't know. Wags did mention in his video though that community communication was one of the focus areas they were going to be putting more attention to - so hopefully we might get some sort of official statement regarding whether it was used here at some stage. 

[zildac]

23 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

I don't think that's how it works. Sure, ED's long-term goal with Vulkan is to include effects that would slow things down to a crawl on DX11, but the first iterations are likely just for compatibility: if ED can show that Vulkan can do what DX11 can do currently in a wide range of use cases without being slower, it can be considered a success and a good foundation to build upon with better effects coming later on.
I bet that process will take multiple years.

The effects as seen in the video are, until proven otherwise, the result of clever post-process video editing... That's how I see it.

Bit cheeky really, I mean the smoke effects in the video were absolutely not the same effects we see in game at present.

[Aapje]

Literally smoke and mirrors

[draconus]

19 hours ago, zildac said:

I mean the smoke effects in the video were absolutely not the same effects we see in game at present

You're seeing things.

[MAXsenna]

Bit cheeky really, I mean the smoke effects in the video were absolutely not the same effects we see in game at present.

Yeah, but the effects are not "made with Vulkan". That's not how it works.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[zildac]

26 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Yeah, but the effects are not "made with Vulkan". That's not how it works.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

I get that, my point was that the smoke is not the same, however it was "made"

[draconus]

1 minute ago, zildac said:

the smoke is not the same

Time stamp?

[MAXsenna]

I get that, my point was that the smoke is not the same, however it was "made"

I see. Misunderstood.
I noticed some nice effects I haven't seen in game myself yet. Not sure if they were new/special or just post-processing.

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[zildac]

9 minutes ago, draconus said:

Time stamp?

From around 1:45, take a look. The smoke and the explosions look different, but again, perhaps it's just post-processing "magic"

[Bucic]

44 minutes ago, zildac said:

From around 1:45, take a look. The smoke and the explosions look different, but again, perhaps it's just post-processing "magic"

Even if they look different... It's not forbidden by law to e.g. increase particle density, size or use an outright mod for explosions and smoke edit: for the purpose of a promotional video.

Edited January 21 by Bucic

[zildac]

8 minutes ago, Bucic said:

Even if they look different... It's not forbidden by law to e.g. increase particle density, size or use an outright mod for explosions and smoke edit: for the purpose of a promotional video.

It was an observation, not a judgement on the legality or morality of it.

[Bucic]

15 minutes ago, zildac said:

It was an observation, not a judgement on the legality or morality of it.

Here's case number 673 of how my convoluted commenting serves no one, sorry I wasn't referring to morality at all. Not to mention law has very little to do with morality. I was merely pointing to the fact that a different look of a certain effect, nor its fluidity, points to use of this or that graphics API. That's all.

[zildac]

11 minutes ago, Bucic said:

Here's case number 673 of how my convoluted commenting serves no one, sorry I wasn't referring to morality at all. Not to mention law has very little to do with morality. I was merely pointing to the fact that a different look of a certain effect, nor its fluidity, points to use of this or that graphics API. That's all.

[draconus]

22 hours ago, zildac said:

From around 1:45, take a look. The smoke and the explosions look different, but again, perhaps it's just post-processing "magic"

It's all just fog, volumetric lighting, a bit of wind, slow motion... From my mission:

Edited January 22 by draconus

[Hiob]

10 hours ago, draconus said:

It's all just fog, volumetric lighting, a bit of wind, slow motion... From my mission:

That's it.

Afaik ED only uses additional sounds in their promo vids but the visuals are all straight from the Game engine (apart from some color filters perhaps which I also happen to use via reshade from time to time. Also sthe change in gamma makes a huge difference).

I think the main reason the game looks so "different" in the promo video is that it doesn't represent actual gameplay. You spend 99% of your flying time in the F1 aka cockpit view. The videos however have 90% footage from 3rd person view angles, landscape shots, fly-bys...etc.

Edit:
And i might add, that by now they are masterfully set up, cut and edited. GA has become impressively good at it.

Edited January 22 by Hiob

[Zebra1-1]

Not going to lie, I was a little disappointed when there was no mention of Vulkan in the video. I too thought some of the explosions looked different from previous videos though. 

Both the 2023 and 2024 Jan newsletters mention the Vulkan API, let's hope 2025 is the year. 

 

 

[MAXsenna]

They often go awfully quiet before the storm...

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[kerlcat]

Wish so. ED promised to be more transparent and improving communication this year. Look forward regular update on this again. 
I know they will face pressure when they say anything. But facing instead of dodging should be right way, isn’t it?

[speed-of-heat]

28 minutes ago, kerlcat said:

Wish so. ED promised to be more transparent and improving communication this year. Look forward regular update on this again. 
I know they will face pressure when they say anything. But facing instead of dodging should be right way, isn’t it?

You are making a huge assumption that ED knows exactly when it will be ready… that’s not me having a dig at ED, but sometimes complex things aren’t as straightforward as let’s dump 50000 man hours and we will be finished.

ED are in a hugely difficult position on communication on this sort of thing, too much information and they will be accused of over hyping and under delivering,  get it wrong and you actually upset more people , especially when something goes wrong and you have to move the ship date right…

In honesty I would say nothing until I was ready to release the product.

[Zebra1-1]

3 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

You are making a huge assumption that ED knows exactly when it will be ready… that’s not me having a dig at ED, but sometimes complex things aren’t as straightforward as let’s dump 50000 man hours and we will be finished.

ED are in a hugely difficult position on communication on this sort of thing, too much information and they will be accused of over hyping and under delivering,  get it wrong and you actually upset more people , especially when something goes wrong and you have to move the ship date right…

In honesty I would say nothing until I was ready to release the product.

Have to agree. That's probably why they never said anything this time around.

[kerlcat]

3 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

You are making a huge assumption that ED knows exactly when it will be ready… that’s not me having a dig at ED, but sometimes complex things aren’t as straightforward as let’s dump 50000 man hours and we will be finished.

ED are in a hugely difficult position on communication on this sort of thing, too much information and they will be accused of over hyping and under delivering,  get it wrong and you actually upset more people , especially when something goes wrong and you have to move the ship date right…

In honesty I would say nothing until I was ready to release the product.

I disagree. No one said we need an exact date. ED publicly announced its effort on Vulkan from 2019 if not earlier. Now it’s 2025. Nobody said it’s easy for graphic engine’s overhaul. But keep silent after so many yrs? Couldn’t the massage be estimated windows like 1H 2025? Q4 2025?
Many companies would maintain a roadmap which could be changed time to time. ED did similar way with its 202X and beyond. Keeping silent is opposite to Wag’s message from his recent video which I like a lot. 
And it’s not shame to share what kind of major challenges blocking the road and an updated target time line. That’s callled transparent and often adapted by some major companies. 

Edited January 24 by kerlcat