in development Vulkan API Discussion

[Raven68]

It's a major change, something like we are eventually talking about DCS World 3.0 version :D

I often wondered what a possible 3.0 version could bring. :)

 

That's probably a complete rewrite of major parts of the entire sim.

I have a feeling that may be happening in the background as we speak based on what saying. I guess that rules out gradually rewriting the base code and seeing it in near future updates. :)

[sobek]

I have a feeling that may be happening in the background as we speak based on what saying. I guess that rules out gradually rewriting the base code and seeing it in near future updates. :)

 

 

I'd like to think so, but what we heard is that porting to Vulkan is already done. They are now busy rewriting the shaders for Vulkan. Maybe we don't know all there is to it but if they were indeed so quick to port to Vulkan, then it seems somewhat unlikely that they have managed to separate the graphics code into a separate thread. All speculative, of course, and we'll see it once it's out, but for now i remain cautiously pessimistic regarding better multi-CPU utilization.

[Bad_Karma-701]

The exciting thing there is to look at the core usage bar graphs at the bottom left. With so many running 8+ core CPUs now a days it will be exciting to see how much improvement we see when all available cores are working together on DCS as apposed to just one getting pegged out all the time while the other sit nearly idle.

 

even 4 or 6 core would see a significant improvement, multi thread is where everything is headed on the processing side for a lot of things plus the always inching forward of resolution adding to the complexity and with gpu manufactures dabbling in trying to move away from rasterization and using ray and path tracing performance and the way things look will improve either way as the hardware improves, but only significantly if done with multi thread vs single.

 

I think safe to say we all wish we could snap a finger and the code was re written for multi thread, but knowing the time and effort as well as cost involved in such an endeavor....

 

we have to remember its a business 1st. Their priority is always going to be profitability it keeps the doors open, the lights on and the project growing. Projects need to be balanced to ensure a steady stream of cash and :drunk: so its doubtful they would be focusing on two projects that don't see a immediate cash in flux like a map or module would do vs Vulkan, multi thread or who knows what else they have in the works We should remember they just recently released 2.5 and are still flushing it out now if it was a side project running parallel we could maybe see multi tread in a major update say 2.5 -2.7 or 3.0.. But i have a feeling thats something that is still a ways off.

[Schmidtfire]

Well... It should be prioritized. What is more important than the core product running all other products? :huh: Two other flight simulators (won't mention names) has already been ported to Vulcan. The boost in performance is fantastic. Ever since DCS 2.5 came along a lot of people are struggeling with performance, moving DCS to Vulcan is necessary to keep framerates up and players happy.

 

Wags post about it a while back sounded very hopeful. Hope that we soon get some news on the move to Vulcan.

[beppe_goodoldrebel]

Two other flight simulators (won't mention names) has already been ported to Vulcan. The boost in performance is fantastic.

 

I found they are single threaded too so it's encouraging...

[sc_neo]

But.....isnt't DCS's main problem the sheer amount of power needed to do all the calculations for hundreds of units in the air, on the ground and water moving about, firing projectiles and missiles, shining light and hunking their horns? Vulkan can help to display this mass of objects at a great refreshrate. But the core-tech that makes all units, triggers and stuff spread over multiple threads but still remain in perfect sync is probably the big one that ED needs to tackle. Is there any info on what is being done about spreading the simulation part over multiple threads?

[Mr_sukebe]

But.....isnt't DCS's main problem the sheer amount of power needed to do all the calculations for hundreds of units in the air, on the ground and water moving about, firing projectiles and missiles, shining light and hunking their horns? Vulkan can help to display this mass of objects at a great refreshrate. But the core-tech that makes all units, triggers and stuff spread over multiple threads but still remain in perfect sync is probably the big one that ED needs to tackle. Is there any info on what is being done about spreading the simulation part over multiple threads?

 

My personal hope is that:

- Vulkan will offload some of the workload from the primary CPU core

- The move to a standalone server does "infer" that ED have worked out how to de-couple some of the code. That could mean that even for a standalone player, that it might be possible to run the AI (server) code on a one CPU core, with the rest of the game running on another.

As stated, that's my hope...

 

Either way, it would be a great Xmas present to get a significant performance increase from the above.

[sc_neo]

Yep, but then i would hope that this dedicated server tech would be implemented for single player in the normal DCS World client so folks don't need to do that server workaround to achieve best performance. But i guess this would be the next step after the dedicated server has been released.

[sobek]

What is more important than the core product running all other products?

 

 

Making money to fund these kind of pro bono improvements.

[boedha68]

Point is clear. Can somebody tell the actual state of the integration of Vulcan in DCS?

[sobek]

Point is clear. Can somebody tell the actual state of the integration of Vulcan in DCS?

 

 

As per a few weeks back they were porting shaders to Vulkan. Noone can say how long that will take.

[CajunJosh]

I'm definitely excited for the future of performance improvements with regards to dedicated servers, the switch to vulcan and the eventual utilization of more CPU cores.

 

Right now I'm running a fairly robust system with a 2080 Ti card overclocked by about 172mhz, a Ryzen 7 1800x overclocked to 4ghz on all 8 cores, 32gb of 2400mhz memory. GPU & CPU are water cooled by a hefty dual 480mm x 60mm radiator setup. Game is run off a Sandisk X400 M.2 SSD.

 

On some servers like the Acrobatics server flying in a Huey is pure butter with great frame rates in VR. When I go to other servers like Through The Inferno that have a lot more assets running and players connected DCS performance starts to slide backwards. At times things can get so choppy around busy airports for whatever reason it starts to remind me of the old Flight Sim 95 and 98 days.

 

Knowing that other than a memory upgrade and overclock I'm throwing more than a reasonable amount of hardware horse power at DCS and still seeing lack luster performance lets me know there is a LOT of performance they can unlock with work to the code. How difficult or time consuming that task isn't my concern but I'll be patiently, eagerly and excitingly awaiting core engine performance improvement.

[boedha68]

As per a few weeks back they were porting shaders to Vulkan. Noone can say how long that will take.

 

Yep, but a actual word of update on the progress of the proces is something what anybody wants to know, cause on the performance side.

 

So Matt or somebody else please left a word! :D

[beppe_goodoldrebel]

I dont think we will get a single word on performance until it's done and tested.

[boedha68]

I dont think we will get a single word on performance until it's done and tested.

 

Wishful thinking. :D

 

From time to time Matt tell us news to the community. That's a GREAT THING! :D

[Buckeye]

I'm definitely excited for the future of performance improvements with regards to dedicated servers, the switch to vulcan and the eventual utilization of more CPU cores.

 

Right now I'm running a fairly robust system with a 2080 Ti card overclocked by about 172mhz, a Ryzen 7 1800x overclocked to 4ghz on all 8 cores, 32gb of 2400mhz memory. GPU & CPU are water cooled by a hefty dual 480mm x 60mm radiator setup. Game is run off a Sandisk X400 M.2 SSD.

 

On some servers like the Acrobatics server flying in a Huey is pure butter with great frame rates in VR. When I go to other servers like Through The Inferno that have a lot more assets running and players connected DCS performance starts to slide backwards. At times things can get so choppy around busy airports for whatever reason it starts to remind me of the old Flight Sim 95 and 98 days.

 

Knowing that other than a memory upgrade and overclock I'm throwing more than a reasonable amount of hardware horse power at DCS and still seeing lack luster performance lets me know there is a LOT of performance they can unlock with work to the code. How difficult or time consuming that task isn't my concern but I'll be patiently, eagerly and excitingly awaiting core engine performance improvement.

 

 

 

You are undoubtedly CPU bottlenecked if you’re only at 4.0ghz.

 

My CPU at 4.7ghz, with DCS forced to Single Core Performance Mode through Process Lasso, bottlenecks my 1080Ti and 16GB RAM.

 

As you said, let’s hope dedicated servers and Vulkan help to throw our poor CPUs a life raft.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pilotasso]

The 2080 ti is bottlenecked by every cpu unless your at above 1440p

[Kazansky222]

What is Process Lasso, and why is it a good thing to do for DCS?

[coach]

Still no word from ED?

[snuffles]

It's a major undertaking to apply to EDGE, especially whilst Hornet is in development still. Just wait patiently

[sc_neo]

I don't care if it takes until late next year...just give'em time to do a proper job so we will have the most futureproof implementation they can come up with.

[=Pedro=]

I don't care if it takes until late next year...

 

Sir, you are an OPTIMIST :D

[boedha68]

ED please response.... or somebody who has some info about it. Yep, porting shaders stage we know, but what is the state of Vulcan now... :D

[NineLine]

There is no new info to share, its still in development, but nothing new and interesting to share right now.

[boedha68]

There is no new info to share, its still in development, but nothing new and interesting to share right now.

 

Thank you. :thumbup: