Behavior of AMRAAM

[Alphamale]

That again depends on the ROE for the Theater of Operations. Visual ID has been the go-to requirement for some time in the recent conflicts that the US has been involved in. I cannot speak for other nations as I am unfamiliar with their philosophies when not working in conjunction with US forces.

 

I see, and that's why I mentioned ROE (Rules of Engagement) a couple posts back when another poster mentioned "some sort of clear separation" before going Fox 2 or Fox 3...in the end, the pilot makes his decision based on his sense of sight and his instincts...there is no mechanical lock or gate that opens when ROE conditions are EXACTLY met, which allow the firing of the ordinance...so, sorry I wandered off topic, but I still am of the opinion that the "maddog method" is something akin to "ejecting"...you never want to use it, but it's there for last resort...thanks for the convo....lots of wise information to be gleaned from you guys...thanks again

[feefifofum]

This doesn't especially have anything to do with ROE, directly. What I'm saying is there is no IFF component in the missile's seeker, even if you as the launch platform have locked and IFF'd the bandit.

 

When launched, the missile receives updates from the launch platform about the target's maneuvers until the point where the missile goes active, at which time it turns on its own radar and guides itself to whatever it finds in its field of view...if that happens to be the friendly because the friendly and the bandit are right next to each other, then you're going to wind up committing fratricide.

 

As Windy says, you're better off restricting yourself to SARH missiles or supporting your wingman with guns if they're that close to the bad guys, otherwise there's a decent chance you'll do more harm than good.

[wilbur81]

Regarding Latest Wags' Video

 

Forgive my ignorance, but is the AMRAAM not truly 'fire and forget?' In Wag's latest video, it seems that he launches and then has to keep his radar lock until the missile goes ACTIVE, which took (by combat standards) an eternity.

[feefifofum]

It is not fire and forget at extreme distances. If it stops receiving guidance updates from the launch platform prior to reaching the active state it will turn on its internal radar and attempt to guide itself to the intercept but if the target does any significant maneuvering there is a good chance it won't where the missile expects it to be.

[David OC]

Forgive my ignorance, but is the AMRAAM not truly 'fire and forget?' In Wag's latest video, it seems that he launches and then has to keep his radar lock until the missile goes ACTIVE, which took (by combat standards) an eternity.

 

Unlike ground targets that are slow for mav to hit and very much a fire and forget. Aircraft are much quicker and your radar is much much more powerful compared to the amaraams. There is a good write up on mudspike about the f15 and how to use these missiles. You can turn away once you guide it to 8 miles or so iirc, there is a count down for this in the HUD.

[eWildcat]

That again depends on the ROE for the Theater of Operations. Visual ID has been the go-to requirement for some time in the recent conflicts that the US has been involved in. I cannot speak for other nations as I am unfamiliar with their philosophies when not working in conjunction with US forces.

 

 

Depends, but visual ID was not necessary if other sufficient means could be used at least during Desert Storm, Southern Watch or Allied Force operations.

[TwanV]

Unlike ground targets that are slow for mav to hit and very much a fire and forget. Aircraft are much quicker and your radar is much much more powerful compared to the amaraams. There is a good write up on mudspike about the f15 and how to use these missiles. You can turn away once you guide it to 8 miles or so iirc, there is a count down for this in the HUD.

 

To add, basically the AMRAAM has three phases of guidance:

1. guidance by aircraft FCR.

2. guidance by aircraft leading, AMRAAM radar active (Husky)

3. AMRAAM radar active only (Pitbull)

 

I was curious to learn if this works the same in the Hornet as in USAF jets, the countdown to husky appears first, then the countdown to pitbull. Is there anyone here that can shed a light on this?:thumbup:

[backspace340]

To add, basically the AMRAAM has three phases of guidance:

1. guidance by aircraft FCR.

2. guidance by aircraft leading, AMRAAM radar active (Husky)

3. AMRAAM radar active only (Pitbull)

 

I was curious to learn if this works the same in the Hornet as in USAF jets, the countdown to husky appears first, then the countdown to pitbull. Is there anyone here that can shed a light on this?:thumbup:

 

There's just a countdown to pitbull - you'll see 'ACT XX' indicating seconds to active, which after you fire will start counting down, once it hits 0 it'll switch to 'TTG XX' which is counting the number of seconds till the missile hits (or would have based on the parameters when you launched, but that can obviously change so it might not be accurate). As soon as TTG appears, you can break lock and manoeuvre away.

[TwanV]

thanks backspace, is that DCS behaviour or RL based?

[backspace340]

thanks backspace, is that DCS behaviour or RL based?

 

They're one and the same, I believe. Wags showcases it in the latest update video here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3596058&postcount=74

 

[Wizard1393]

Sadly, nothing at all for the Hornet in the update today :( Except for another fix for sliding on the deck...

 

EDIT: Apparently quite a few changes has been made with no mention in the update release notes. :)

Edited August 15, 2018 by chrisofsweden

[Flia]

i see AIM9x on my hornet :)

[Bloodhound57]

Is the Range of the AIM-120 too short? I read that the distance is greater than 20 miles? Maybe I was mistaken.

[Retu81]

Is the Range of the AIM-120 too short? I read that the distance is greater than 20 miles? Maybe I was mistaken.

 

Not anymore it isn't:

 

[TwanV]

nice! So can we conclude they've worked on the aero properties of the missile? Or even better, the guidance algorithm?

[de.Impact]

That's great news!

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

nice! So can we conclude they've worked on the aero properties of the missile? Or even better, the guidance algorithm?

 

Not yet, as per Wags: "On a related matter, our missile engineer is currently focused on the AIM-7, but following that, he will re-visit AIM-120 guidance laws and flight dynamics."

[Wags]

Not yet, as per Wags: "On a related matter, our missile engineer is currently focused on the AIM-7, but following that, he will re-visit AIM-120 guidance laws and flight dynamics."

 

Correct. Internally, the AIM-7 and AIM-120 versions now have the improved navigation system. Additionally, the internal AIM-7M now has several significant changes like corrected motor thrust-altitude dependence based on nozzle exit area and atmosphere pressure, adjusted drag and lift curves based on wind tunnel test data, and other changes.

 

We are now carefully testing these changes before we release and move to all AIM-7 and AIM-120 versions.

 

Thanks!

[kreisch]

Wags, I really appreciate the information flow of the hornet development! Nice to hear what's "in the pipeline" and to get a little inside view!

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Gesendet von meinem F5121 mit Tapatalk

[Manuel_108]

Agreed. Makes the early access process a lot more enjoyable.

[tranquillity]

+1 , great communications and constant heads-up updates.....

Thank you @eagly dynamics and @wags

[*Rage*]

Correct. Internally, the AIM-7 and AIM-120 versions now have the improved navigation system. Additionally, the internal AIM-7M now has several significant changes like corrected motor thrust-altitude dependence based on nozzle exit area and atmosphere pressure, adjusted drag and lift curves based on wind tunnel test data, and other changes.

 

We are now carefully testing these changes before we release and move to all AIM-7 and AIM-120 versions.

 

Thanks!

 

That's great news. I'm away on holiday now but can't wait to try these out with the new Hornet additions, in particular the 9X!

 

 

Can we expect similar corrections, as mentioned above, to be rolled out to other missiles such as the R27 series?

[TwanV]

I agree, BVR has been a touchy subject in the past but it's great to hear efforts are being taken to really get it right. Would like to say the rate of improvements is impressive, a big thumbs up.

[Esac_mirmidon]

I hope the R-27 family also could benefit for that.

[antagonist]

I hope the R-27 family also could benefit for that.

 

Aren't all missiles affected by these issues?

 

Once updated, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people had to rethink their approach to air combat.