is this forum getting better or getting worse?

[Floyd]

The BS announcement is sure to generate alot of traffic, but I'd bet a months salary it'll spawn tens of bitching/whining threads as well, since that is the form of almost all forums sadly.

 

I'm afraid that the announcement will make many people's dreams meet reality.

"bitching/whining threads" are sometimes written by disappointed customers, but

most of us have just adapted to what Lomac is today. Beeing here since the late

Flanker days i can remember the enthusiasm and eagerness before Lomac's release,

the patches and the addon.

[VMFA-Blaze]

Well I've got to say that this forum has actually gotten worse in my viewpoint... It's really turned into something totally different from what it actually started out to be, and I know this to be true as I was one of the first to join the English forum..

I've seen a lot of good men come and go, sort of like a combat zone...

 

I'm hoping that Ed will get back into the business of providing us with the next addon to the best commercial combat flight sim out there... And at that point in time I think we'll see this forum get back on track...

 

Sure there will be whiners after the next release but I 'm betting that there'll be a lot less of that with the release of Black Shark...

 

And for you guys that were around at the beginning of the Lock On era you'll remember issues that this sim had at the time were catastrophic..Again do you remember the release of Flaming Cliffs.. This addon was actually a big step in the right direction, with only some minor bugs.. But the real problem was the download became broken causing a lot of issues for allmost everyone concerned.. And I'm sure that this must have cost Ed a lot of business... But still they've survived were other companies that have done less to anger thier customers haven't...

 

And whats the key to their survival ?? It's a final product.. They've given us a High Fidelity contemporary flight sim, and its a new product, its not a reheated product from the past. It is as they so aptly named it "Modern"....

 

And the fact is that you can buy it.. Its here and its now and you can load it up on your system and experience a little of whats its like to jump into present day aircraft and fly into combat... This is what makes this sim so awesome...

So when we eventually do get the chance to fly a combat helicopter I'm sure that we'll again see this forum finally return to a more familiar form..

Personally I've been in ED's corner for quite a few years now and have stuck up for them in some of the other forums... I've been with them one hundred percent even when guys have come into this forum and bashed Lock ON...

And I've given 100% to the developers when I was asked by them for help...

And taking all of this into consideration I really don't like and also think that some of the things that the Moderators are doing are a little bit heavy handed ..

And I'm speaking I'm sure for a lot of other guys here as well...

I rember the UBI forum when all of the Beta Testers were turned into moderators.. At that point there were more moderators in that forum then members...

I just hope that that doesn't happen here as well..

 

~S~

 

Blaze

[Boneski]

These forums are good. This is a great place to get official information from the developers about their product line.

Also this is a great place to get help from other customers of the game that have run into problems before and have solutions that work.

You can't ask for much more.

People misuse forums and they mutate into places for the unhappy...

Even if sections of the forum are setup for people to vent... some how

negetive threads get mixed up into the general threads.

Why because people are stupid. They feel the need to smash up the place

because they are not happy. But that's just the nature of the net.

[Geier]

These forums are good. This is a great place to get official information from the developers about their product line.

 

Also this is a great place to get help from other customers of the game that have run into problems before and have solutions that work.

 

You can't ask for much more.

 

People misuse forums and they mutate into places for the unhappy...

Even if sections of the forum are setup for people to vent... some how

negetive threads get mixed up into the general threads.

 

Why because people are stupid. They feel the need to smash up the place

because they are not happy. But that's just the nature of the net.

 

Nothing to add:thumbup:

[rattler]

Nothing to add:thumbup:

Ditto.

[S77th-GOYA]

These forums are good. This is a great place to get official information from the developers about their product line.

http://lockon.co.uk/index.php?end_pos=3&scr=newslist&lang=en

Also this is a great place to get help from other customers of the game that have run into problems before and have solutions that work.

You can't ask for much more.

Certainly you can.

People misuse forums and they mutate into places for the unhappy...

Even if sections of the forum are setup for people to vent... some how

negetive threads get mixed up into the general threads.

Given the nature of how PC software is usually sold (sell it broken and then fix it with patches), it is only natural that people let the devs know what they want fixed and that they are not happy with the broken software they bought. And it was from this forum that the 1.12 RWR ghosting bug was spotted and quickly fixed. Most people don't like the idea of being a beta tester and paying for the privilege. But ED did the right thing in that case and rectified that problem.

 

Some people are the type that would order a steak rare and what they get is a steak well-done but just sit there and eat it quietly. Some are not.

Why because people are stupid. They feel the need to smash up the place because they are not happy. But that's just the nature of the net.

 

No, only some people are stupid. Some are not.

 

It is true that complaints in here get repetitious. That is because the problems that get the most complaints are not fixed in a timely manner.

 

So, when you get your well-done steak, just smile and eat it.

 

Or "smash up the place" and ask that it be prepared properly.

[Mike Cinch Perry]

These forums are good. This is a great place to get official information from the developers about their product line.

Also this is a great place to get help from other customers of the game that have run into problems before and have solutions that work.

You can't ask for much more.

People misuse forums and they mutate into places for the unhappy...

Even if sections of the forum are setup for people to vent... some how

negetive threads get mixed up into the general threads.

Why because people are stupid. They feel the need to smash up the place

because they are not happy. But that's just the nature of the net.

 

So your saying that people are stupid for posting here in the forums about problems with the product they purchased? WOW if this is what you think then I would love to sell you a car that says on the sticker it get 35 miles a gallon, but in reality it get 10 miles a gallon! or how about some ocean front property in Oklahoma! Just because someone has negative thoughts or an issue with a product that he has purchased gives him every right to let #1 the Developer #2 other customers aware of the problems he is having. It's not that a person is stupid for wanting his "Money Worth" of the product!

 

So with that said No one person is stupid, its the people that call them stupid that needs to check themselves!

 

Cinch

[rockwelder]

I think you need to ask ; Is this thread getting better or worse...?

[Groove]

Is whining making this forum better or worse ?

[EricJ]

I think you need to ask ; Is this thread getting better or worse...?

 

Hell I'd move to lock this topic. It's going nowhere and what's the point of it all? Granted I've been doing other things so I haven't been really too active (well okay, a little more than usual) but what I've gleaned from the Ubi board is that the mods are getting extreme... or the posters are getting extreme, so it seems really unclear (to me anyways) just what the problem is.

 

So I guess I'll take a stab out of the dark. Lo.ru site goes down, cats and dogs start living together, and nobody is happy about it. Mods.... I think take a preemptive strike and try and quell the riots, but it excites the rioting, and here we are, Page 8 on another "Why is this?" topic. I mean I guess in retrospect it's a little of both. Nobody expected (hell I don't even ED) the site to go down, okay, the world is still turning, and gravity is still present. So in essence, I think everybody seems to be overreacting because the site was down, and nobody got information, but wanted it NOW! Mods overreacted and we are at this juncture. So in essence, we're all to blame as the small community we are, because we all want to see BS, but not have to deal with alot of bs. But nobody realizes that at it's heart, LO is a freakingly complex simulation. Back in the day, we'd find and fix a problem, then something else would mess up. And we'd be back before Square 1 even is considered.

 

So I think the reason is, that ED is at a juncture. Getting BS stable or workable is a real pain in the ass and they've hinted at, but not overly stated it, but duh, that's why it's taking so long. So people get stupid, and think ED isn't telling all, but then again, it's a product, they don't have to, the sim market, while small, is a tight market, and ED wants to be first. So while I don't think I could look at the mods and say they're wrong, or right, or maybe it's what they feel is making the best out of a bad situation. And it just spirals out of control, and continues until somebody finally has to say STOP! But the site going down? Whoopdee doo really, I mean most of the information I get comes from here, so why is it such a big deal? Does the main site have to be the hub? Which is why there is the forums here, to facilitate the information as best as possible.

 

We dealt with this with Lock On when it first came out, and we had the same spate of locks, deletes, bans. Matter of fact it still annoys me even though years past. From my point of view as still an active moderator on four sites, is that while the STFU attitude isn't always the best method I agree, but sometimes take a step, look at it again, before you start hammering away saying that ED is failing it's customers. And did you ever pay attention to the tags? All the moderators are currently also beta testers. Beta testing, is a royal pain in the ass. It seems cool and spiffy that you get to play with the new software, toy, etc. before everybody does, but you have to take an extroardinary amount of time to just look at EVERYTHING, from a bush looking stupid, textures, coding, programming. It's called a Fine Tooth Comb, and it can really stress you out sometimes, especially with deadlines, and oh by the way, I do have a life and job to lead too... And while people assume it's like The World is not Enough, from my experience, the only people who've done a pathetic job as far as execution was the GRAW2 MP test I participated. No direction, no accountability, just "here, play with it and we'll.. ask you about it sometime." That's pathetic. The LO team when I was part of it, is a bunch of people who nitpick every square centimeter of the sim, and it's shown through Lock On. As again, like a broken record, this simulation is so complex, is that people aren't thinking of that. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither can BS or even LO itself, ever. Sure it's annoying that it's not out, as I'm excited, but if you were in the devs shoes, how would you act any different?

 

Or maybe more simply, the mods are getting tired of the constant complaining when realistically, they can't do anything about it, and trying their best, and its not working out right?

[EvilBivol-1]

Holy smokes, what a post. Thank you.

[Mike Cinch Perry]

Hmm, I think its getting better, people are telling how they really feel, it's like the forums has its own TV channel, more in the lines of a soap opera! I like it cause I can get a giggle out of it before I go to work, go to bed ir when I'm just sitting at home drinking beer. All in All I think it is a good thing that this thread was started and hope it keeps going because "In a perfect world nothing is still really perfect" and why should it look like way her in the forums!! Just my thoughts!!

 

Cinch

[Ice]

Thank you Eric.

 

Great post!

[Boneski]

So your saying that people are stupid for posting here in the forums about problems with the product they purchased?

Cinch

 

Re-read the post bro. Never said that. If you are going to come at me. Come correct.

[S77th-GOYA]

Hell I'd move to lock...

 

Careful, foul language will get you a warning. :smilewink:

 

Either I don't have a good grasp of what the problem really is (and if that is true, someone please speak up) or that long post really doesn't address the problem.

 

When you say the ED site going and staying down for as long as it was is no big deal ignores the fact that for those that needed a Starforce activation the software was unusable. ED had no back-up plan to support its customers in the event of that forseeable possibility. That's was why people were angry/frustrated and said so. Do you think that was uncalled for?

 

The second prong of this current situation is what is viewed by some as heavy handed modding. It appears that Alfa has banned Hitman over a signature file that he saw as oversized. Or maybe it was oversized, I don't have a time machine to prove it. But I will tell you this: I recently made my sig and had it removed by a mod too. When I made it I chose the compression for the jpg in PS. It told me that it would be under the filesize limit. So I attached it without checking the size. It turns out that PS was wrong and my sig WAS oversized. I redid it, checked it, put it up in Photobucket and attached it again. This turned out to be the same sig I had before that was oversized. It must have been a cache issue or something. (I used the same filename) Eventually, I got it to be undersized. The point of all this is that at no point did I knowingly put up an oversized sig. Was I close to getting banned for it? Maybe, I don't know. That was something that any mod may have viewed as repeated disrespect for a very clear rule. But it was not in any way.

 

Also, anyone policing sig sizes should know that the stated limit is 51200 bytes. It appears that that may have been a problem in a case or two, but not my case.

 

Based on what I've read about this, the real problem seems to be a lack of communication and civility. Both necessary traits for a forum, IMO. But I will readily admit I have only heard one side of the banning story. If Hitman called Alfa a &$^(&%^%ucker for deleting his sig, then that's another story.

 

And I miss your point about mods being beta testers. Both are by choice. Neither excuses anything.

 

One thing is for sure, tensions and frustrations are high. I suggest we all blow the heads off some zombies. :thumbup:

[sp0nge]

Congratz on 2000 posts Cali. Your a big contributor!

 

hav sum rep :D

 

All evens for you! ;)

[159th_Viper]

Careful, foul language will get you a warning. :smilewink:

 

Either I don't have a good grasp of what the problem really is (and if that is true, someone please speak up) or that long post really doesn't address the problem.

 

When you say the ED site going and staying down for as long as it was is no big deal ignores the fact that for those that needed a Starforce activation the software was unusable. ED had no back-up plan to support its customers in the event of that forseeable possibility. That's was why people were angry/frustrated and said so. Do you think that was uncalled for?

 

The second prong of this current situation is what is viewed by some as heavy handed modding. It appears that Alfa has banned Hitman over a signature file that he saw as oversized. Or maybe it was oversized, I don't have a time machine to prove it. But I will tell you this: I recently made my sig and had it removed by a mod too. When I made it I chose the compression for the jpg in PS. It told me that it would be under the filesize limit. So I attached it without checking the size. It turns out that PS was wrong and my sig WAS oversized. I redid it, checked it, put it up in Photobucket and attached it again. This turned out to be the same sig I had before that was oversized. It must have been a cache issue or something. (I used the same filename) Eventually, I got it to be undersized. The point of all this is that at no point did I knowingly put up an oversized sig. Was I close to getting banned for it? Maybe, I don't know. That was something that any mod may have viewed as repeated disrespect for a very clear rule. But it was not in any way.

 

Also, anyone policing sig sizes should know that the stated limit is 51200 bytes. It appears that that may have been a problem in a case or two, but not my case.

 

Based on what I've read about this, the real problem seems to be a lack of communication and civility. Both necessary traits for a forum, IMO. But I will readily admit I have only heard one side of the banning story. If Hitman called Alfa a &$^(&%^%ucker for deleting his sig, then that's another story.

 

And I miss your point about mods being beta testers. Both are by choice. Neither excuses anything.

 

One thing is for sure, tensions and frustrations are high. I suggest we all blow the heads off some zombies. :thumbup:

 

+1.

[S77th-konkussion]

+1 as well. Not saying the points you make are wrong Eric- they just don't address the current discussion.

[Revvin]

I can understand the upset of customers who paid for Flaming Cliffs and could'nt access the download but the way in which some people spout their vitriol is unacceptable and sometimes I wonder if some of them are truly customers at all or just oppurtunists who enjoy another particular sim and take the oppurtunity to put down Lock On. It's not like ED would purposely take down their site, as I have experienced only recently its a pain when a server goes down and you have to move an entire site. I don't know why anyone would get banned for a signature, when I first posted mine I got a polite request from a moderator here to remove it as at that time sig images were not allowed, I did'nt know that, I apologised and removed it.

 

I can wait for Black Shark, its not going to transform my life so when its ready it will be released and I'll buy it. ED is one of the few true sim developers left, I've enjoyed all their sims to date and hope it will continue.

[Geier]

 

Either I don't have a good grasp of what the problem really is (and if that is true, someone please speak up) or that long post really doesn't address the problem.

 

One thing is for sure, tensions and frustrations are high. I suggest we all blow the heads off some zombies. :thumbup:

 

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[Cosmonaut]

I agree with EricJ on this.

 

I think there's been a lot of tension as the release date of BS, bringing with it some well needed bug fixes, seems too be no closer than it was several months ago. And add to that the main site going down and people not being able to activate BS and you're just asking for trouble. But I don't think ED were sitting around drinking Vodka thinking great lockon.ru is down we get some time off, instead I think its a case of limited resources and ED chose the most cost effective way to get the site back online which unfortunately took along time and fueled the tensions between the Mods and some forum members and Squads.

 

The fact is that forums don't really matter all that much to developers in general because most people that purchase any game or sim will never even visit the forums at all. However the ED devs aren't just reading and listening but also answering questions here on the lockon boards which I can tell you is pretty rare for todays games, so its not all doom and gloom for the lockon forums.

 

Lastly I'll say this that we as forum members, for this or any other game/sim, aren't just the community that keeps driving the flgihtsim genre forward but we're also free twenty four seven tech support for the developers spending a heck of a lot of time trying to help people get the most out of a game and even Microsoft couldn't pay for that amount of support. So when a few members are apparently treated harshly it can serve to divide the community into an us and them situation which just produces ten plus page threads with frikken huge posts ;). Although I understand that the Mods are pretty much prohibited from speaking out in public so a reasonable disagreement can turn into a Witch hunt when it should really have been left for the disagreeing pair to settle any differences via PM's. But if you've been banned then that's basically a full stop in the argument and your options are now limited. I just hope something is announced or released pretty soon so we can discuss whats going right instead of whats going wrong.

[hitman]

All this talk about sigs...theres not one mention on the length limit. Theoretically, I could make a sig thats 2 pixels in width and 9000 pixels in length and not get busted for it unless it goes over the kb size. And sometimes Im sorely tempted to test this too.

[Cosmonaut]

All this talk about sigs...theres not one mention on the length limit. Theoretically, I could make a sig thats 2 pixels in width and 9000 pixels in length and not get busted for it unless it goes over the kb size. And sometimes Im sorely tempted to test this too.

 

Shhh don't say that out loud.. :smilewink: right now there is no limit on length and it seems to be working fine :D

[S77th-GOYA]

All this talk about sigs...theres not one mention on the length limit. Theoretically, I could make a sig thats 2 pixels in width and 9000 pixels in length and not get busted for it unless it goes over the kb size. And sometimes Im sorely tempted to test this too.

 

Sig length is not an issue, I don't think. Unless it busts the margins of someone using a low resolution. They just don't want the sigs to take up too much space on the scroll height. It could be 150 x 800 and be within regs as long as it's not over 50Kb. (God, I hope no one is using 640 x 480)

 

The difference between the 19.5Kb and 50Kb sig rules is that ED would be hosting the 19.5Kb limit sigs. That's different from hosting your sig yourself.

 

A mod might confirm or clarify.

[S77th-konkussion]

..... And if it's because of people with low band.....it's the 2007, pay for cable or dsl.....unless you live in the deep back woods and don't have running water.

 

Or just turn off sig display in your own control panel & quit cryin'. :thumbup: