Pandacat Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 Is this a canard wing that gets deployed when wings are at full sweep? Is this proposed modification on F-14D or all tomcat variants have that?
probad Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-glovevane.htm if you care to learn about the f-14 start by reading everything on this site
Strikeeagle345 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 It was on the early models but were disabled and eventually removed / welded shut i believe. Strike USLANTCOM.com i7-9700K OC 5GHz| MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON | 32GB DDR4 3200 | GTX 3090 | Samsung SSD | HP Reverb G2 | VIRPIL Alpha | VIRPIL Blackhawk | HOTAS Warthog
Alicatt Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 It was on the early models but were disabled and eventually removed / welded shut i believe. and on the D model the glove vane housing held the RWR antennas Sons of Dogs, Come Eat Flesh Clan Cameron
Strikeeagle345 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 and on the D model the glove vane housing held the RWR antennas oh, interesting!:thumbup: Strike USLANTCOM.com i7-9700K OC 5GHz| MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON | 32GB DDR4 3200 | GTX 3090 | Samsung SSD | HP Reverb G2 | VIRPIL Alpha | VIRPIL Blackhawk | HOTAS Warthog
Victory205 Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 Is this a canard wing that gets deployed when wings are at full sweep? Is this proposed modification on F-14D or all tomcat variants have that? MATS Site really doesn't say much. The glove vanes were designed to counteract a nose down pitching moment at high speeds caused by two phenomenon on the F14. The center of pressure moves aft on any aircraft as flow goes supersonic over the wing surface. This occurs at or above the transonic range (~.85-1.2 Mach), and swept wings can make it worse than straight wings, depending upon a host of other variables, like whether or not the outer wing is which the fuselage shock cone. Also, peculiar to the F14, the wingsweep also increases to 68 degrees by ~.9 mach, this also causes the center of pressure to move aft as the lift producing area geometrically moves aft. Both reduced the supersonic maneuverability, so the gloves were used to put aerodynamic surfaces forward to increase the lift forces forward. It increased the G available at supersonic speeds and diminished the massive drag of a delta wing at increased alpha. It wasn't a huge problem in the F14, and since that isn't a common flight regime in the first place, and doesn't present a huge tactical advantage all things considered, they were removed. See "Mach Tuck" and "Swept Winged" aerodynamics for more information. Fly Pretty, anyone can Fly Safe.
Oesau Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 It was never installed on the B & D models. The A model had it in the earlier days but was deactivated and then finally removed (any weight saving is win)
Bad Idea Hat Posted January 16, 2019 Posted January 16, 2019 It was never installed on the B & D models. The A model had it in the earlier days but was deactivated and then finally removed (any weight saving is win) Also, less mechanical complexity is a bonus.
mattgn Posted January 17, 2019 Posted January 17, 2019 MATS Site really doesn't say much. The glove vanes were designed to counteract a nose down pitching moment at high speeds caused by two phenomenon on the F14. The center of pressure moves aft on any aircraft as flow goes supersonic over the wing surface. This occurs at or above the transonic range (~.85-1.2 Mach), and swept wings can make it worse than straight wings, depending upon a host of other variables, like whether or not the outer wing is which the fuselage shock cone. Also, peculiar to the F14, the wingsweep also increases to 68 degrees by ~.9 mach, this also causes the center of pressure to move aft as the lift producing area geometrically moves aft. Both reduced the supersonic maneuverability, so the gloves were used to put aerodynamic surfaces forward to increase the lift forces forward. It increased the G available at supersonic speeds and diminished the massive drag of a delta wing at increased alpha. It wasn't a huge problem in the F14, and since that isn't a common flight regime in the first place, and doesn't present a huge tactical advantage all things considered, they were removed. See "Mach Tuck" and "Swept Winged" aerodynamics for more information. I want your brain. Swap with me !
Nexus-6 Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 I want your brain. Swap with me !It's nothing you can't learn just by doing a little research. Can't pretend fly as well as you can.
razorseal Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 so why did they think it was necessary for the A, then said "wait a minute, why did we put this on here? take it off!" lol odd
Sealpup Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 so why did they think it was necessary for the A, then said "wait a minute, why did we put this on here? take it off!" lol odd They likely felt that supersonic maneuvering would be important for the type during development. Once they started getting some real world operational data, it didn't turn out to be so important.
AH_Solid_Snake Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 They likely felt that supersonic maneuvering would be important for the type during development. Once they started getting some real world operational data, it didn't turn out to be so important. Yes and no, they were absolutely correct from a purely aerodynamic perspective - that didn't change. What did change was the perceived value of those effects. In practice the extra weight of the slabs in addition to the actuators, let's remember it's a hydraulic system so we have pipes and ducts and values to make this little slab of wing actually move, coupled with the extra effort in maintaining that system outweighs the extra pitch available at high speeds. In addition as I think you're alluding to - they discovered that in practice you don't spend a great deal of time maneuvering hard at those speeds, a true turning fight will get slower and the wings will come forward, and a quick correction at high speed without bleeding off the speed you're trying to maintain doesn't require that much of a pitching moment.
macedk Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 You are all wrong ...it is the coffee table, when doing top wing work :) OS: Win10 home 64bit*MB: Asus Strix Z270F/ CPU: Intel I7 7700k /Ram:32gb_ddr4 GFX: Nvidia Asus 1080 8Gb Mon: Asus vg2448qe 24" Disk: SSD Stick: TM Warthog #1400/Saitek pro pedals/TIR5/TM MFDs [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Mad_Max2 Posted February 15, 2019 Posted February 15, 2019 Skip to 18:07 OR watch the whole thing if you haven't seen it, pretty good! 1
macrossMX Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 Out of curiosity, is it possible to operate the glove wings manually?
Hummingbird Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 MATS Site really doesn't say much. The glove vanes were designed to counteract a nose down pitching moment at high speeds caused by two phenomenon on the F14. The center of pressure moves aft on any aircraft as flow goes supersonic over the wing surface. This occurs at or above the transonic range (~.85-1.2 Mach), and swept wings can make it worse than straight wings, depending upon a host of other variables, like whether or not the outer wing is which the fuselage shock cone. Also, peculiar to the F14, the wingsweep also increases to 68 degrees by ~.9 mach, this also causes the center of pressure to move aft as the lift producing area geometrically moves aft. Both reduced the supersonic maneuverability, so the gloves were used to put aerodynamic surfaces forward to increase the lift forces forward. It increased the G available at supersonic speeds and diminished the massive drag of a delta wing at increased alpha. It wasn't a huge problem in the F14, and since that isn't a common flight regime in the first place, and doesn't present a huge tactical advantage all things considered, they were removed. See "Mach Tuck" and "Swept Winged" aerodynamics for more information. Hi Victory, This rearward movement of the CoP should also mean that the F-14 needs much less trim in pitch as compared to other non FBW jets, yes? I recall reading a cat pilot like yourself mention this.
tekrc Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 Out of curiosity, is it possible to operate the glove wings manually? not exactly. they are always controlled by the computer. but they open sooner in the schedule if you are in bomb mode
tekrc Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 Skip to 18:07 OR watch the whole thing if you haven't seen it, pretty good! I was going to post this if someone hadnt yet. I find the vanes pretty awesome and very useful and will be sad if not in the a. at least visually
KiraTheCat Posted March 2, 2019 Posted March 2, 2019 I was going to post this if someone hadnt yet. I find the vanes pretty awesome and very useful and will be sad if not in the a. at least visually I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere a long while back that Heatblur was going to put them in, but not be operational on either model.
six.dof Posted March 2, 2019 Posted March 2, 2019 Similar as on the Tornado, the “Krueger” ( hope that is the right name for them) flaps are deactivated in the German version, as it has no big advantage ( for low speed) , and save maintenance, in the ECR version they are replaced by the ELS system.
JetCat Posted October 29, 2021 Posted October 29, 2021 Are there any plans of further F-14 development with these awesome looking supersonic flight canards implemented into the A-version?
Snappy Posted October 29, 2021 Posted October 29, 2021 35 minutes ago, JetCat said: Are there any plans of further F-14 development with these awesome looking supersonic flight canards implemented into the A-version? Last official position was ( I think, might be wrong though ) , they may ( perhaps) be added sometime in the future, but if that happens, they would only be cosmetically incorporated in the 3D model, no re-writing of the actual flight model for them. Regards, Snappy 1
JetCat Posted October 29, 2021 Posted October 29, 2021 Excellent These glove vane canards were active in the early years during the seventies and installed to generate some extra lift to prevent the nose-down pitching force at supersonic flights. And it looks so awesome and iconic and ahead of it´s time with swept-back wings and extended vanes that because for design reasons alone it is a must to implement in the best virtual Tomcat ever programmed:
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