is there any benefit to buying a trainer

[metzger]

I disagree the hornet is the best all around plane for new and advanced players.

 

The next all around plane will be the f16c.

 

Now if the argument is f14 is good as a trainer just because its 2 seat? Not the case. Both pilot and Rio have different controls. The pilot flies the plane, the Rio adjust radar picture and acquires targets.

 

The f15e would be a better trainer as the pilot can access all the functions the wso can via mfd's and wso can still access and operate all the stuff a pilot can.

 

Hell a strike eagle pilot could fly solo and still complete the mission. Hence why in a training setup the bac kseater can easily just be the instructor sitting out and giving guidance to a new player without actually having to also fill in as a radar or weapons operator.

 

A f14 pilot needs a properly trained human Rio if not using jester.

 

 

 

 

 

A10c is more of an acquired taste. It might have glass cockpit and modern avionics refitted into, but it's a role specific slow moving jet. Hence its arguably more of an acquired taste whilst multimission fighters have versatility and thus greater appeal as they offer something for everybody.

Hornet has a FBW system and G limiter, one would not learn very good to operate with the stick.

 

Hornet is trimming automatically so one will not learn much about trimming

 

Hornet doesn't have ILS

 

Hornet allows very hard landings with no flare, which will not be a good habit in other planes

 

Hornet has a precisely computed release and impact points, one would not learn to drop bombs/guns based on parameters, which is a valuable skill

 

Hornet is very powerful, one would not learn energy management so good

 

Going from Hornet to any other older generation plane will make one to have to pretty much re-learn everything.

 

 

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[1987kess]

I'm flying in DCS since 2 or 3 months ago. Previously I've been flying Flamming Cliffs 2 for a year or so. I've started DCS with the SU-25T because I knew from FC2 and because it's free obviously. But quickly I moved to the L39C because I lacked some basic concepts, and I'm learnig a lot with this thing while getting tons of fun. Pure instrumental navigation, no autopilot and autotrim, instrumental approach and landing, landing patterns... I feel that it's so rewarding flying this module, and it's really quick to study and get used to it.

 

Also I started the "Kursant" campaign and I really feel that I'm on the flight academy of the L-39c. It's quite challenging and fun. Also the basic training missions are nicely done.

 

I started to study and fly the F/A-18 as well and I feel that I'm not ready for it just yet, even if I can ramp up, take off and land it more or less with success, I definitely will put more flight hours to the L-39c before moving on.

 

I totally recommend it.

[firmek]

You can do all of this and more and learn to do it really well in the Maple Flag courses for the A-10C

 

Do the trainer aircraft come with “training” campaigns?

And how is it related? Since you're asking however, yes the L-39 does have a training campaing. Actually really a really good one: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/campaigns/l-39_albatros_kursant/. You can also find a lot of good community made missions - for instance to practice IFR. There is also a comprehensive starting set of missions available for C-101 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=229128

 

No please tell us how? :blink:

Again you can do this in any aircraft...

 

Yes, especially the mentioned A-10C with a SAS system (Stability Augmentation System) which takes from the pilot a lot of the necessity to use the rudder pedals is the best plane to illustrate adverse yaw effect and practice how to counter it... If you insist, yes you can, but an analog plane without a HUD, with analog instruments only, with analog controls and IFR hood makes a basic maneuvers a lot of fun.

 

I'm not trying to forcefully convince everyone to trainers. At the same time trying to explain how good and useful trainer can actually be, kind of reminds of trying to explain someone in 90's how much useful a cell phones are. In most of the cases, you'll never know until you get one.

[SharpeXB]

Yes, especially the mentioned A-10C with a SAS system (Stability Augmentation System) which takes from the pilot a lot of the necessity to use the rudder pedals is the best plane to illustrate adverse yaw effect and practice how to counter it... If you insist, yes you can, but an analog plane without a HUD, with analog instruments only, with analog controls and IFR hood makes a basic maneuvers a lot of fun.

You can also learn all about stick and rudder in the WWII planes including the free TP-51

True though, DCS has so many modern auto rudder aircraft you see all the time on here questions asking what the rudder does...

Edited January 28, 2019 by SharpeXB

[Bahger]

The L-39 is a jet trainer that a competent, non-pro civilian pilot could learn to fly in real life. It's a handful compared to a Cessna 182 but the kind of stick-and-rudder skills you learn in basic flight training can be applied to it. Front-line fighters are great fun to fly in DCS but it's essentially a fantasy and a lot of sim pilots don't even realise how hard they are leaning on all the electronic assists when they've never learned how to trim an aircraft properly or manually fly a coordinated turn using only the whiskey compass for heading, which every real-world fighter jockey -- and all civilian pilots, for that matter -- learn before anyone lets him loose in a front-line jet.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Bahger

[SharpeXB]

The L-39 is a jet trainer that a competent, non-pro civilian pilot could learn to fly in real life. It's a handful compared to a Cessna 182 but the kind of stick-and-rudder skills you learn in basic flight training can be applied to it. Front-line fighters are great fun to fly in DCS but it's essentially a fantasy and a lot of sim pilots don't even realise how hard they are leaning on all the electronic assists when they've never learned how to trim an aircraft properly or manually fly a coordinated turn using only the whiskey compass for heading, which every real-world fighter jockey -- and all civilian pilots, for that matter -- learn before anyone lets him loose in a front-line jet.

I hate to bring up other sims but the “civilian” flight sims are a great place to learn all that stuff.

IMO there are too many non front line aircraft in DCS and I’d like to keep the focus here on those. It’s Digital COMBAT Simulator...

And all the real world reasons you wouldn’t turn a new trainee lose in an F-15 don’t exist here. Frankly very few or none of us would qualify to fly one in the real world.

Edited January 28, 2019 by SharpeXB

[Svsmokey]

While testing 1.58 in VR today , I found (yet) another reason to like the L-39 . It has over-sized flight instruments , making them very easy to read in VR . No leaning forward ! I expect that , being a simple aircraft , it will unload the CPU in VR as well .

[Mars Exulte]

The reason for buying a trainer is the same for buying any other module here : because you like the subject aircraft. Some of these people have a MinMax mentality and it's really out of place here.

[moonshot]

I hate to bring up other sims but the “civilian” flight sims are a great place to learn all that stuff.

 

Dude, we get it. Stop spamming every thread you post in about how your precious DCS is being ruint by all the Christen Eagles flying around.:cry::cry::cry:

 

IMO there are too many non front line aircraft in DCS and I’d like to keep the focus here on those. It’s Digital COMBAT blah blah blah

 

It’s not your place to direct the focus and obviously ED already has broader plans.

Seriously, get over it dude.

[SharpeXB]

Dude, we get it. Stop spamming every thread you post in about how your precious DCS is being ruint by all the Christen Eagles flying around.:cry::cry::cry:

I didn’t even specifically mention the biplane but since you did? :music_whistling:

Hey 3rd parties are free to lose as much money as they like.

[metzger]

I hate to bring up other sims but the “civilian” flight sims are a great place to learn all that stuff.

IMO there are too many non front line aircraft in DCS and I’d like to keep the focus here on those. It’s Digital COMBAT Simulator...

And all the real world reasons you wouldn’t turn a new trainee lose in an F-15 don’t exist here. Frankly very few or none of us would qualify to fly one in the real world.

L-39ZA is a light attack aircraft. Saw real combat in some middle east conflicts. It fits perfect in DCS both as a light attack and a combat trainer. For guys like you there will be MAC where you will have your dreamed airquake :)

 

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[Svsmokey]

Yeah , first no civvies and now no front-line aircraft ....

Anyway , tested L-39 in 2.5 and indeed it does offer much better VR performance relative to the Hornet , for example-and doubtless the A-10C , even though it is a front-line aircraft :)

Edited January 29, 2019 by Svsmokey

[Rogue Trooper]

The greatest problem with DCS is a lack of complexity in coms.

Both military and especially civilian when it comes to airspace and airports.

The great benefit with trainers would be training you to use airport maps, coms and basic navigation. To re-enforce a fundamental truth in each country when it comes to flying.

 

 

If the trainers like the C101 really trained you how to use real world navigation, real coms, landing and take off to the enth degree, they would be worth their weight in gold. If they really took you through a DCS exam of flight proficiency they would be superb.

 

Unfortunately complex coms, airport complexity, simple military and civilian air traffic across one entire single map just ain't there in DCS.

I reckon this is where the trainers need to be and be there toot sweet.

A huslin map full of military and civilian airframes taking off and landing is where the trainers miss the mark!

 

 

I can jump into the F-18 tomorrow and it will teach me how to get me some real quick.... it will teach me to get a lot more than any trainer will!

We need modules that teaches us the basics and will hopefully lead us to a better managed airspace, civilian and weapons free.

 

 

They should then teach you how to conserve energy, how to use what you got against someone who has something different.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Rogue Trooper

[Rudel_chw]

It’s not your place to direct the focus and obviously ED already has broader plans.

Seriously, get over it dude.

 

 

+1 :)

[SharpeXB]

It’s not your place to direct the focus

Sure it is. Everyone gets an opinion.

[SharpeXB]

L-39ZA is a light attack aircraft. Saw real combat in some middle east conflicts. It fits perfect in DCS both as a light attack and a combat trainer. For guys like you there will be MAC where you will have your dreamed airquake :)

 

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Guys like me don’t want soft sim MAC aircraft. Give us the full sim stuff. And it’s not that the

L-39 is bad, the issue is what could have been made in its place.

What would fit DCS perfect would be a full sim MiG-29. How about that? Why not give us a real sim 4th Gen fighter aircraft instead of a trainer?

Why a Hawk instead of a Eurofighter? There are dozens of better choices for DCSW than these trainers. The trainers will just get obliterated in multiplayer so they really can’t be used there. But you can still “train” and “practice” in combat aircraft.

[GGTharos]

They won't get obliterated if that mission is all trainers ;)

 

The lack of imagination is palpable. They could even with in a high threat environment, it wouldn't be the first time.

[Svsmokey]

First no civvies , then no non-frontline aircraft , now no MAC . Followed by a suggestion for impossible-to-model EU and Russian fighters . Me thinks the man wants a population of one , I'm guessing the A-10C :)

[Kev2go]

Hornet has a FBW system and G limiter, one would not learn very good to operate with the stick.

 

Hornet is trimming automatically so one will not learn much about trimming

 

Hornet doesn't have ILS

 

Hornet allows very hard landings with no flare, which will not be a good habit in other planes

 

Hornet has a precisely computed release and impact points, one would not learn to drop bombs/guns based on parameters, which is a valuable skill

 

Hornet is very powerful, one would not learn energy management so good

 

Going from Hornet to any other older generation plane will make one to have to pretty much re-learn everything.

 

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

 

as vice versa...... going from a older generation jet, to a new gen jet you have to relearn alot of things, In other areas youl have to learn and "train" totally new things that aren't present in trainers ( Radars and other sensors) so the argument is moot.

 

 

people who want to fly modern planes dont need old trainers. People who want to fly old generation jets will simply buy old generation jets from the get go and not modern ones. People who want to diversify and try out different things will try out different things. As mentioned you dont need to start trainer in dcs like there is a need in real life for obvious reasons . YOu can just save money and learn the aircraft you actually are interested in flying until you are proficient in it.unless you specifically want to fly trainers to fly something else. AS pointed out for people who are primarily into modern era aircraft FC3 makes the a good "trainer" for anyone who feels jumping straight into a full fidelity module right away is too daunting task.

 

However your argument completely avoided the tomcat, which is what the other user was trying to make an argument would be a good trainer. I point out that the as a combat plane the F15E would work better as "trainer"

 

Besides in todays trainers have modern avionics ( IE glass pit) and CCIP/CCRIP modes. dont be fooled to think that todays T45/ T1A Hawk or T38s are still operated with pure Analog systems. Even former hornet pilots like Mover had said they dont train with manual ( mils depression) modes for the Hornet. However the option to use manual mills depressive bombing mode is there, so if one wishes they can bomb in a Hornet like they would in F5.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Kev2go

[SharpeXB]

Followed by a suggestion for impossible-to-model EU and Russian fighters .

If these are impossible why is ED doing modern era?

These aircraft are in FC with advanced FM and all that? Are clickable switches top secret?

Is it just going to be Hornet vs Hornet?

[Kev2go]

If these are impossible why is ED doing modern era?

These aircraft are in FC with advanced FM and all that? Are clickable switches top secret?

Is it just going to be Hornet vs Hornet?

 

 

na its going to be Hornet vs Tomcat ( Iran) or Hornet vs JF17 Thunder ( Pakistan/ Chinese developed A/C) which will make a good enough redforce stand in for a modernized Mig29 ( Ie Mig29SMT)

[SharpeXB]

They won't get obliterated if that mission is all trainers ;)

Not very exciting...

Digital Training Simulator? :sleep:

[SharpeXB]

Hornet vs JF17 Thunder

JF17? I had to Google that to know what it is.

Why make these unknown aircraft that won’t sell?

Edited January 29, 2019 by SharpeXB

[Ignition]

JF17? I had to Google that to know what it is.

Why make these unknown aircraft that won’t sell?

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207194

 

 

I think it will sell really good since it will be the most modern eastern aircraft we will have.

[SharpeXB]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207194

 

 

I think it will sell really good since it will be the most modern eastern aircraft we will have.

Well it’s not a trainer! :thumbup: