Realistic soldiers

[atazar]

I know it's not a priority, but would it be possible for someone on the team to work in a group of realistic soldiers? I would like to have uniformed soldiers from all countries in my library, also Spanish soldiers. Thank you.

[Xilon_x]

the smallest military force that can be used and this "FIRETEAM" composed of a minimum of 2 men up to a maximum of 4 men the NATO symbol is this.

 

 

here is an example of FIRE TEAM Italian of the 2nd World War in Africa is called "FOLGORE".

 

 

U.S. rangers modern war.

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Xilon_x

[Svsmokey]

:doh:

[Xilon_x]

:doh:

: Gun_rifle: : Gun_rifle:

for me it's a very simple thing. currently a tank advances at 75 km / h and shoots .......... imagines instead of a tank ...... 4 men advancing at a man's pace (about 3.6km/h- 5,4km/h) and shooting with a rifle is simple you have only changed subject instead of a tank using 4 men.: Smilewink:: Smilewink:: Smilewink:

Edited April 24, 2019 by Xilon_x

[feefifofum]

You cannot simply turn a tank into four soldiers. Each soldier must aim, fire, and move independently as well as have individual hitboxes and health.

 

The models for several infantry units have been re-built recently.

 

Russian infantry

 

 

 

 

Georgian infantry

 

 

 

 

Insurgent infantry

 

 

 

 

US MANPADS

 

 

 

 

German WW2 infantry

 

 

 

 

US WW2 infantry

 

 

 

 

 

 

To create a four-man fireteam, use a group of 4 of them. Basic formations are built into the sim, if you want something else you can create custom formations the group will remain in as they move from waypoint to waypoint.

Edited April 24, 2019 by feefifofum

[Mars Exulte]

I believe Xilon is suggesting using fireteams instead of individual soldiers as it is now... and yes, it would be quite simple. In effect it would be a unit template consisting of four soldiers that received orders together as one unit. Not exactly a world shaking, engine splitting act of code engineering involved, and it would indeed make using infantry simpler and more realistic.

 

 

 

 

 

Never thought I'd be taking Xilon's side in a wishlist thread, but here we are ;)

[Svsmokey]

Arma:doh:3

[Silver_Dragon]

I believe Xilon is suggesting using fireteams instead of individual soldiers as it is now... and yes, it would be quite simple. In effect it would be a unit template consisting of four soldiers that received orders together as one unit. Not exactly a world shaking, engine splitting act of code engineering involved, and it would indeed make using infantry simpler and more realistic.

 

Never thought I'd be taking Xilon's side in a wishlist thread, but here we are ;)

 

Simple has add four soldiers as a unit, similarly to actual mission editor procedure and order move them, but that never coordinate, make formations, make combat maneuvers or take cover.

 

Make a "realistic" fireteam with move, combat and communicate as a unit has similarly to build a realistic tank platoon, a problem and not simple. That require build a AI to coordinate four or more units , get proper weapons to build a fireteam by all DCS countries, make animations with motion capture and of course a fireteam has different components on WW2, cold war and Modern times, with the successive updates and doctrinal changes with the past of time.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Silver_Dragon

[Xilon_x]

if you talk to me about platoons we go from 30 to 50 men ....... but I'm talking about a simple fire group of 4 people.

A simple unit made up of 4 men you can give him the commands to walk to stop attack mode mode defense mode and retreat mode.

We need the animations of 4 men the corresponding commands to select on the control bar and the game is done and simple .......... not complicated as ARMA III

Edited April 24, 2019 by Xilon_x

[Svsmokey]

if you talk to me about platoons we go from 30 to 50 men ....... but I'm talking about a simple fire group of 4 people.

A simple unit made up of 4 men you can give him the commands to walk to stop attack mode mode defense mode and retreat mode.

We need the animations of 4 men the corresponding commands to select on the control bar and the game is done and simple .......... not complicated as ARMA III

 

Perhaps , but the concept belongs in Arma 3 , not a FLIGHT simulator .

[Northstar98]

Yes it would be good, but you can sorta already do this in DCS can't you?

 

However, there are other features that are on my wishlist for infantry/personnel in DCS.

 

Firstly, MOAR!!! It would be great to have more personnel/infantry units present for all countries (obviously start with the main ones UK, Germany, France, China, Iran, Spain, Italy blah blah blah and work on from there).

 

It would also be great to get different variations of personnel and infantry for each country, I'm talking about things like marines/paratroopers, dedicated FAC/JTACs, equipment operators (e.g for Rapier)

 

Secondly things like equipment - with regards to primary weapon (I don't think it's necessary to have soldiers change their weapon, or throw grenades) at the moment they have access to one weapon alone (only really one exception, that being the US), it would be good if what weapon they're carrying could be selected on the loadouts tab of the ME. While we're at it, what about camouflage schemes?

 

Lastly, in an attempt to remove the clone armies of DCS thing, it would be good to have say 5 different height, face and skin-tone variations for personnel, and best if this was applied randomly (like the side skirts and stuff on some WWII asset pack vehicles) this isn't to big of a deal, just a 'nice to have' thing.

 

The above is pretty much just 3D work alone, with maybe a little bit of coding here and there for the loadouts thingy and variations.

 

The main coding work that needs to be done is probably just better implementation of embarking/disembarking (having units actually present inside the helicopter - though this is less important), as well as APC/IFV/Landing Craft embarkation. The rest is just general improvements to AI - better coordination, taking cover... etc.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Northstar98

[Napa]

Would like to see the AI in soldiers become more alive than static. Same with ground vehicles. But especially infantry should have a lot more autonomy in movement and posture.

[Northstar98]

Would like to see the AI in soldiers become more alive than static. Same with ground vehicles. But especially infantry should have a lot more autonomy in movement and posture.

 

If you look at the newest infantry additions to DCS they're actually pretty well done, I mean they're eyes move and everything. And their animations have been overhauled.

[Silver_Dragon]

Look, I usually do rescue missions and removal of survivors and at some point I would like to rescue Spanish, French, Italian or British soldiers or from other countries, and I would also like to be able to have uniformity in the desert. I would like to do it in DCS. The ARMA 3 is not the option of those who aspire to have as much realism in the field as in the air.

 

That is not easy to make. Build accurate infantry 3rd models take time, and need make animations, damage models, codification and implement functionality into DCS core. That is not a copy paste of a resskin of a usa or russian soldier to convert on Spanish, British or Italian soldier. Need accurate models to insert into the simulator.

 

Take a look to the new WW2 infantry, has proper german, english infantry and US paratrooper.

 

Yes it would be good, but you can sorta already do this in DCS can't you?

 

However, there are other features that are on my wishlist for infantry/personnel in DCS.

 

Firstly, MOAR!!! It would be great to have more personnel/infantry units present for all countries (obviously start with the main ones UK, Germany, France, China, Iran, Spain, Italy blah blah blah and work on from there).

 

It would also be great to get different variations of personnel and infantry for each country, I'm talking about things like marines/paratroopers, dedicated FAC/JTACs, equipment operators (e.g for Rapier)

 

Secondly things like equipment - with regards to primary weapon (I don't think it's necessary to have soldiers change their weapon, or throw grenades) at the moment they have access to one weapon alone (only really one exception, that being the US), it would be good if what weapon they're carrying could be selected on the loadouts tab of the ME. While we're at it, what about camouflage schemes?

 

Lastly, in an attempt to remove the clone armies of DCS thing, it would be good to have say 5 different height, face and skin-tone variations for personnel, and best if this was applied randomly (like the side skirts and stuff on some WWII asset pack vehicles) this isn't to big of a deal, just a 'nice to have' thing.

 

The above is pretty much just 3D work alone, with maybe a little bit of coding here and there for the loadouts thingy and variations.

 

The main coding work that needs to be done is probably just better implementation of embarking/disembarking (having units actually present inside the helicopter - though this is less important), as well as APC/IFV/Landing Craft embarkation. The rest is just general improvements to AI - better coordination, taking cover... etc.

 

That is a false argument, different variations of personnel and infantry for each country required time, has not a "copy paste" 3D model. Different armament need build the proper weapons 3D, animations, texturing and coding them into DCS.

 

To selecting a carrying weapon by the editor, need coding and build a functionality to add a database with infantry weapons, functions to enable them into the mission editor and other code to the simulator use them and build your use in combat (more coding).

 

Actually we have a example, the carrier crew. Implement them take large quantity of work and time to use them properly into DCS and has only a deck crew, but that functionality can help to improve infantry (motion capture, animations, coding), more complicate with a carrier operator. Never has a easy task.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Silver_Dragon

[SUNTSAG]

My recommendation to you is try this mod: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=223659

 

68 different liveries in total plus primary textures.

Multiple 3D models.

Various ethnicities represented.

Bluefor and Redfor available.

Now with the ability to be placed on boat decks.

JTAC Compatible.

Can be embarked and disembarked.

 

Includes VIETNAM ERA options too

 

All in a single download.

Edited April 25, 2019 by SUNTSAG

[Fri13]

What DCS need, and likely comes, is a simple military hierarchy modeling instead groups. And each individual unit behaves correctly by the core of DCS itself, not a mod.

 

Meaning, a smallest infantry unit is a pair (excluding pilots), then team, then squad, platoon and finally you have a company.

 

All from transporting to defensiv tactics etc is needed to be made automatic by AI with simple rules.

 

We do not really need great individual infantry animations etc, this is not ARMA, but more like a Wargame. And that is what ED is developing, so we just need to wait.

 

Soon mission designers do not add groups but units, issue orders, and let the logic happen. Meaning that if pilot is downed, they seek cover, transmit location, report periodically etc. And then when SAR comes, they signal SAR to get picked up.

 

But what we need is more templates of correct units. Currently not possible, but in future should be, without mod.

[Kang]

Quite frankly, I don't think there is immediate need for a large variation in infantry weapons in DCS. If every nation had access to a rifleman, an AT weapon, a MANPAD and a machine gun that would probably suffice for a long time. Maybe in 'east' and 'west' variants. My point is, even for helicopter insertion type missions I wouldn't consider it too immersion-breaking if, say, a German soldier carried an M-16 instead of a G-36.

One unit I would seriously like to have added is simply a pilot. The models exist, walking and standing animations exist. Would be nice to be able to put these down in missions.

[Svsmokey]

Respectfully , i would prefer to maintain DCS's integrity as a flight simulator . I do support such efforts as to make it a less "dead" world , and certainly would like to see our helo bros have insertion/CSAR roles . But beyond that , i don't wish to see DCS getting too involved in infantry and (in other threads) naval warfare .

The thing is , none of these comes without a cost-in development time that could be used in making a better FLIGHT sim and in performance . Try to be everything to everybody , and you have a sure-fire recipe for silent-film frame rates . There are infantry games out there . There are naval games out there . There are even combined-arms games out there . For god's sake let DCS do what it does best-flight simulation !

[Baaz]

...DCS do what it does best-flight simulation !

 

But, it's DCS, Digital Combat Simulation, not DCFS as in Digital Combat Flight Simulator. Its very name indicates it's designed to be MORE than just a combat flight sim. Just Saying. :music_whistling:

[Svsmokey]

I knew that was coming :) . Consider what DCS IS , and not the name . Consider also what ED's roots are . They do not come from a gaming company , rather from a military/commercial flight simulation entity .

[Xilon_x]

DCS contains combined arm so we are not talking about airplanes but about ground vehicles an infantry team of four men that is put in place of a tank all here very simple.

 

 

naturally combined arms and a sector that does not affect 80% of the simmers but still exists in the DCS simulator. here it is not a question of doing very complicated things but trying to do things as simply as possible.

 

 

This is not just a flight simulator but we have air weapons and ground weapons and maybe even sea and submarine weapons. ok. This DCS is done just right I have to thank the programmers because they are very good.

[boedha68]

Well the animation basescripts are ready (for the carrierdeckcrew). A bit of moddeling and finetuning. I think DCS can grow to a beautiful full complete war sim. But....a bunch of work...for the next decade! :D Finally this is a product like nothing else! :D

[Silver_Dragon]

I wouldn't consider it too immersion-breaking if, say, a German soldier carried an M-16 instead of a G-36.

 

No german (modern) soldiers on DCS yet. You mistake german soldier with Georgian soldier. Actually has only a WW2 Herr german soldier with a Mauser 98. About animation basescript, has in progress and not ready yet, waiting the final release.

 

Respectfully , i would prefer to maintain DCS's integrity as a flight simulator . I do support such efforts as to make it a less "dead" world , and certainly would like to see our helo bros have insertion/CSAR roles . But beyond that , i don't wish to see DCS getting too involved in infantry and (in other threads) naval warfare .

The thing is , none of these comes without a cost-in development time that could be used in making a better FLIGHT sim and in performance . Try to be everything to everybody , and you have a sure-fire recipe for silent-film frame rates . There are infantry games out there . There are naval games out there . There are even combined-arms games out there . For god's sake let DCS do what it does best-flight simulation !

 

From 2012, DCS has a combined arms simulator, not only a flight simulator.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Silver_Dragon

[Northstar98]

That is a false argument, different variations of personnel and infantry for each country required time, has not a "copy paste" 3D model. Different armament need build the proper weapons 3D, animations, texturing and coding them into DCS.

 

Yep, but this is already present in DCS and like I said mostly 3D work, the infantry AI doesn't necessarily need to be changed, so just 3D model, texturing, animations, though most of this is already present in DCS.

 

As for time, I know it will take time, lots of it - seen how many countries there are in DCS? Heck, even if you limit it to countries in theatres there's still a fair amount of assets.

 

To selecting a carrying weapon by the editor, need coding and build a functionality to add a database with infantry weapons, functions to enable them into the mission editor and other code to the simulator use them and build your use in combat (more coding).

Yep, this is coding... But again, this feature is already present for aircraft, I'm describing something that's already present in DCS in some regard, just not for anything other than aircraft. I'm not talking engine torturing differences here...

 

Actually we have a example, the carrier crew. Implement them take large quantity of work and time to use them properly into DCS and has only a deck crew, but that functionality can help to improve infantry (motion capture, animations, coding), more complicate with a carrier operator. Never has a easy task.

Yep but deck crew are different in this respect, they need far more complex animations (hand signals etc) which is not already in DCS, but infantry stuff are... I know it's not copy/paste but it's far closer to copy/paste than adding something completely new (like deck crew).

[Northstar98]

Quite frankly, I don't think there is immediate need for a large variation in infantry weapons in DCS. If every nation had access to a rifleman, an AT weapon, a MANPAD and a machine gun that would probably suffice for a long time. Maybe in 'east' and 'west' variants. My point is, even for helicopter insertion type missions I wouldn't consider it too immersion-breaking if, say, a German soldier carried an M-16 instead of a G-36.

 

Oh no the multiple unit variations isn't something of immediate need, more a nice-to-have, low-priority stuff. Having infantry as you describe for each nation is arguably more important, though I still would prefer accurate units where feasible.