wind over the deck

[oldpop]

My old brain has forgotten how to calculate the heading of the CV, given the wind, to produce 30kts down the angle! Wind 280/15:helpsmilie::helpsmilie:

[AG-51_Razor]

Have you got an E-6B? Go online and google it. I have a link for one at home on my gamer. You can use it to determine what the ship's course and speed needs to be in order to achieve 30-31 knots over the deck with little or no drift. I wouldn't set your ship's speed at anything more than 20-25 knots.

[oldpop]

Yes, I have one (40 years old with no slide), so I guess I can't make the required calculations on it. :)

 

Could you send me a copy of the slide, so I can make one?

PS, mine is the small version not the standard

Edited May 1, 2019 by oldpop

[shagrat]

May be a good alternative to get the thing as an App.

The link is for Android, but it's available for iPhone/iPad, as well. Just search for Flight Computer Sim. The Pro version has no ads. The manual for the E6B in general is available on the internet.

For the wind Calculation in the App:

-set wind direction on top

-set wind speed from center point up (easier if you set center to 100)

-dial in desired course (correct for magnetic course/variation if required)

-put index point to IAS

read:

-true airspeed on center point

-correction angle at the index point

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=dao.DaoSoftware.FlightComputerSim

 

P.S. I use an CR-3 at home, but for planning routes, missions etc. on the road this one is pretty handy and I like the old school approach. ;)

[Kang]

Is that really necessary?

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious here, but couldn't you achieve the result you want by simply taking:

 

15kts of wind coming from 280,

set ship course to 289°, giving direct headwind down the 9° angled deck,

set speed to 15.2kts (the 30kts you want, minus the 15 you get from the wind, divided by cos(9°))

?

[AG-51_Razor]

That works for me!! :pilotfly:

[shagrat]

Is that really necessary?

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious here, but couldn't you achieve the result you want by simply taking:

 

15kts of wind coming from 280,

set ship course to 289°, giving direct headwind down the 9° angled deck,

set speed to 15.2kts (the 30kts you want, minus the 15 you get from the wind, divided by cos(9°))

?

 

Yep, that is what an E6B/CR3 calculates for you, just without the need for batteries... and half a dozen other handy calculations to manage course planning, fuel consumption etc.

Another benefit is the option to simply turn the dial to a new heading and read the WCA... for the Carrier BRC etc. it is a bit overdressed, but handy nonetheless. :)

Edited May 2, 2019 by shagrat

[Kang]

I didn't mean to badmouth the device. Just wondered if there was something else involved I didn't think about.

[oldpop]

it was the JOOD's job during flight OPS to give recommended cus/SP to the OOD to keep the ship "pointed" for optimum WOD! I watched several ENS and JG's melt under the ship's CO or SR. Officer badger them to keep the flag right down the angle!

[shagrat]

I didn't mean to badmouth the device. Just wondered if there was something else involved I didn't think about.

For the wind over the deck likely not, as you want a headwind anyway. If you use it for navigation/route planning it shows head/tail and crosswind components directly, so you know your TAS. This in turn is helpful to get your real time to cover a legs distance, which is required to calculate the fuel consumption...

Modern planes have fancy computers giving them TAS and what not. Still a CR3 is a nice fallback and sometimes it's just fun to calculate remaining range after a dogfight with more afterburner than you thought and figure if you need to divert or make it to the Carrier. As my AAR still sucks, this is a vital skill for me... ;)

[AG-51_Razor]

My old brain has forgotten how to calculate the heading of the CV, given the wind, to produce 30kts down the angle! Wind 280/15:helpsmilie::helpsmilie:

 

 

Here you go, try this: http://www.aviationexplorer.com/Virtual_E6B_Flight_Calculator_Emulator.html

 

 

Just scroll down a ways to find the virtual E-6B :thumbup:

[Jack McCoy]

See my answer, discussion starting at post #34: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=214816&page=4

 

I hope it helps!

[Knives]

You can also try this script, it will turn the carrier automatically to face the wind, considering the deck angle, so that you will have zero croswind.

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=213662&highlight=carrier+script

[Nealius]

What's the wind angle for "zero crosswind?" I recall a topic where wind 18 degrees left of BRC is supposedly ideal, and I found that the easiest to fly, except having that 18 degree crosswind in the downwind totally FUBAR's your abeam distance, requiring 35-40 degrees of bank in the groove turn (when you're not supposed to go above 30 degrees) from 1.0nm abeam.

[Jack McCoy]

What's the wind angle for "zero crosswind?" I recall a topic where wind 18 degrees left of BRC is supposedly ideal, and I found that the easiest to fly, except having that 18 degree crosswind in the downwind totally FUBAR's your abeam distance, requiring 35-40 degrees of bank in the groove turn (when you're not supposed to go above 30 degrees) from 1.0nm abeam.

1.0nm seems tight. Try 1.2nm up to 1.4nm if the plane is heavier.

 

Also, the C in BRC is Course (ground track). Even landing on land, a pilot of any airplane needs to compensate for wind to maintain a somewhat rectangular standard traffic pattern.

[Lex Talionis]

...lots of brain power going on in here.

 

In short...The angle of the deck is negligible. Should be easly mitigated by "that pilot sh!t". The boat should not be steaming such that there is an appreciable x wind component.

 

In all of our sand box servers we just make the boat move at 27kts. (Shrug)

[oldpop]

Lex, you have not been on an CV during flight ops I bet! The wind down the landing line is VERY important for several reasons:

1: It is not recommended that the a/c trap with a side slip component.

2: It is recommended that the touchdown relative speed is at a minimum for AG requirements

3: the lower the relative speed of the a/c to the deck allows the pilot better control

4: Trapping cross deck angle is bad

So mim relative speed, no "slip", no drift angel are all very important:

read att form NADC doc

[Squid_DK]

oldpop, Lex is a naval aviator, he at least used to have a lot of nice F/A-18 vids on his youtube channel, as well as a lot of nice info on pattern work and the likes.

I am fairly certain he has done flight ops on a carrier.

[Lex Talionis]

... you are all welcome to chat with us on discord. In addition to real life pilots, we have a few LSOs open to questions.

 

Regardless, and avoiding the argument from authority, an element of side slip can be inevitable from a landing zone that is literally moving sideways away from you. It is why the gear are made like tree trunks as apposed to AF planes. As long as the boat is pointing the correct direction in the wind, your good to go and the rest is transparent to the pilot.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Lex Talionis

[Strikeeagle345]

Lex, you have not been on an CV during flight ops I bet! The wind down the landing line is VERY important for several reasons:

1: It is not recommended that the a/c trap with a side slip component.

2: It is recommended that the touchdown relative speed is at a minimum for AG requirements

3: the lower the relative speed of the a/c to the deck allows the pilot better control

4: Trapping cross deck angle is bad

So mim relative speed, no "slip", no drift angel are all very important:

read att form NADC doc

 

LOL, Lex is a real life Hornet pilot / Naval Aviator. :lol:

[oldpop]

If so he knows better!

Lex, when was the last time you trapped with a crosswind?

Seems we agree on the basics... I also am a Naval Aviator, 26yr retired CDR,

Edited May 8, 2019 by oldpop

[MadMaxter]

Pop, you and Lex definitely should get together. A melding of the minds between old school and new hotness would be a sight to see. Having met you both, I would pay money to be a fly on the wall for that meeting. One couldn't help but learn something from listening to you both palaver.

[Lex Talionis]

To avoid the misconceptions that i believe are about to ensue, i will try and frame the conversation i am (or thought i was) engaging in ...

 

I thought i was addressing the negligible difference between the winds created from the boat moving and the angle.

I stated that the boat should not be moving in such a way as to create an appreciable x wind component. i.e. perpendicular to natural winds.

 

There is no need for a wizwheel if you simply insure the boat steams into the wind. What's more, i stated my solution for the game witch was to simply have the boat move at 27 knots with no winds.

 

.. excessive brain power exertion avoided. Play the game, everyone happy.

 

my comment to the circumstance of unavoidable side slip forces was in referencing times when the boat must make all WOD (no natural winds) and there is unavoidable x wind between BRC and the angle.

 

In either case, the side forces that may result are to be expected and this is why navalised aircraft have the landing gear that they have (among other reasons)

 

If there are misconceptions that i am advocating X wind components, i am not. And yes, there are attempts made to try and keep the wind down the angle. I am simply stating there are times when it is unavoidable. Regardless, as long as the boat is doing what it is suppose to (i.e. steaming in the wind, total WOD 25-30, etc) , the x wind component will never be any greater than if the boat was making 100% of the WOD (no natural winds) for which pilots are very much so expected to fly in if the situation arose, no wizwheel required, no mind splitting brain flexing, everything is transparent to the pilot through "that pilot sh!t", play the game, everyone happy.

 

Everyone just throttle back a bit....

 

oldpop, would love to chat with ya on discord. We have many pilots to share stories with. Hope to see you, and anyone else who wants to chat.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Lex Talionis

[Sierra99]

Have you got an E-6B?

 

I have an E6B my Nav gave me for Christmas in 1987...my first year flying. She taught me how to do my own precomps and spin winds. I’m glad to see someone else using prototype equipment for flight sinking!

[oldpop]

Lex and I agree!:)

If you have ever been on the bridge of a carrier during flight ops, as I said, you would see the JOOD sweating as he kept checking the "real wind" and calculating the ships course to keep the "relative" directly down the angle! (Saw many ENS/LTjg's melt under the OOD or worse the ships CO having them checking the ships course)

My time on the Enterprise, the CO was CAPT (later O7) Forrest Sherman Peterson, (first XO of CVN65 and former X15 test pilot). He had the capability to reduce a O5 to a wet pile of uniforms during UNREPs. All of the O5's needed the "alongside OOD qual" to look at O6! I saw the ships Nav Officer hide under the chart table when the CO commented on the O5's performance. I have other stories of him that would fill a book! Master of Verbal abuse!!!!!