Yet another JDAM post (need help re-learning due to logic update)

[obious]

Hi All,

 

Is anyone able to provide accurate steps to employing JDAM using dgst waypoints from the mission planner/map?

 

I understand ED changed the TGP/TOO/PP/JDAM impl logic recently (as far as I can see, there's been no official word from Wags and his videos are still up on his Youtube feed detailing the now 'incorrect' procedure) but I'm still unable to correctly employ the weapons.

 

Put simply, I have 2 GBU31 on separate stations and when using the QTY option in the JDAM display mission planner to 'combine' the drops, I cannot get the bombs to hit different targets when designating different waypoint targets by 'stepping' through the stations; they both hit the same target.

 

Does anyone know what the, now corrected, procedure is? Or is there a bug lurking somewhere?

[kengou]

TOO cannot drop simultaneously on multiple targets. Only PP mode can do that. And PP mode currently only works with coordinates input via UFC.

 

 

 

So to answer your question:

 

Deselect all stations from the QTY option, so they drop one at a time instead of together.

 

 

Then, designate one waypoint, pickle, undesignate, select a new waypoint, designate, pickle, and repeat for each bomb.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi,

 

 

PP mode is for pre planned targets only (data cartridge / manual coordinate inputs)

 

you can programme individual targets prior to a mission or during and use the step function.

 

TOO mode is for target of opportunity, and can be used with the TGP.

 

At the moment it is confusing because it has been possible to add the TOO target data to a PP target.

 

This is going to change, TGP data will no longer be used for PP ( Pre Planned )

[Tom Kazansky]

Hi,

 

 

PP mode is for pre planned targets only (data cartridge / manual coordinate inputs)

 

you can programme individual targets prior to a mission or during and use the step function.

 

TOO mode is for target of opportunity, and can be used with the TGP.

 

At the moment it is confusing because it has been possible to add the TOO target data to a PP target.

 

This is going to change, TGP data will no longer be used for PP ( Pre Planned )

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

So will it be possible to feed TOO1 and TOO2 with 2 different targets by the TGP and release 2 JDAMS or 2 JSOWS simultaneously or in short order to attack them? I mean why are there 2 TOO slots if we can only use 1?

 

 

(EDIT: and yes, I know the work around for this: feed 1st traget to TOO1 and slew to 2nd target. then drop 1st JDAM then TDC depress and drop 2nd JADAM. I wanted to know how to use the 2 TOO1 and TOO2 simultaneously, please)

Edited November 26, 2019 by Tom Kazansky

[obious]

Hi,

 

 

PP mode is for pre planned targets only (data cartridge / manual coordinate inputs)

 

you can programme individual targets prior to a mission or during and use the step function.

 

 

Thanks for the response and I guess this is what I’m getting at. I’ve tried this multiple times but coords keeping being overwritten.

 

Are the steps to the new/current process written down anywhere?

[Tom Kazansky]

Thanks.

 

 

So will it be possible to feed TOO1 and TOO2 with 2 different targets by the TGP and release 2 JDAMS or 2 JSOWS simultaneously or in short order to attack them? I mean why are there 2 TOO slots if we can only use 1?

 

 

 

 

please ignore this question. I finaly got it. You have to undesignate between the TOO1 feed and TOO2 feed. I works perfectly* (using DCS stable version)

 

 

thanks

 

 

*sorry for having to edit this "perfectly" here. I did several runs. sometimes I hit 2 different targets with TOO1 TOO2 set to different ones, and sometimes the two JSOWs hit the same target, although I still can check that TOO1 and TOO2 have different coordinates. will do some more testing...

Edited November 26, 2019 by Tom Kazansky

[Tom Kazansky]

Test: hit 2 targets with 2 simultaniously dropped JSOWs in TOO1+TOO2 mode (4 runs of this to hit 8 targets)

 

 

did some more testing, and I found out that it always worked for the 1st 4 JASOWs from station 2+8 and after I changed to station 3+7 most of the attacks ended up wit 2 JASOWs hit the same target, despite that TOO1 and TOO2 had different coordinates set.

 

see track *002 (real time flying)

and track *004 (with active pause to speed it up)

 

 

 

 

 

then I wanted to find out what happens if I chose station 3+7 first and then it got odd:

 

the first attack was successful as expected.

 

BUT on the 2nd I had no chance to fire the 2nd pair of JSOWs from station 3+7. I tried several times, but they didn't go off the plane.

 

shown in the track *005

 

 

at the end of the track you see that I tried to step thru the stations and it stepped thru 3,7 and 8(!) which should not have been possible bc only 3+7 had been selected in QTY.

 

 

 

Is this a known issue? did I miss something?

 

 

Could this issue be the reason why the tests above *002 and *004 missed the intended result with the last 4 JSOWs from station 3+7?

 

 

 

(using stable DCS)

FA-18C JSOWs with TGP TOO1 and TOO2 002.trk

FA-18C JSOWs with TGP TOO1 and TOO2 004.trk

FA-18C JSOWs with TGP TOO1 and TOO2 005 buged 3+7.trk

Edited November 26, 2019 by Tom Kazansky

[Tom Kazansky]

one remark for the last track *005:

 

 

after firering the 1st pair the station switched automatically to 8 so this must be the reason why no JSOW could be dropped anymore. (But they also didn't drop after selceting station 7 later.)

 

 

but should it be possible to have station 8 selected automatically when only 3+7 are set in QTY?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Tom Kazansky

[Tom Kazansky]

did more tests:

 

 

 

it alway changes to station 8 after pickle, even when I manually select 3 or 7 before pickle.

 

 

so that is the problem imho.

[DucS2r]

did more tests:

 

 

 

it alway changes to station 8 after pickle, even when I manually select 3 or 7 before pickle.

 

 

so that is the problem imho.

 

Thanks for digging into this. I am frustrated too and just want to figure out the right way, which hopefully will be clarified in one of the upcoming OB updates. I will fool around a bit with it tonight too. Looking forward to tomorrow’s update.

[Tom Kazansky]

Thanks for digging into this. I am frustrated too and just want to figure out the right way, which hopefully will be clarified in one of the upcoming OB updates. I will fool around a bit with it tonight too. Looking forward to tomorrow’s update.

 

 

Those tests helped myself to understand what the problem is and to be sure that it will be a great thing in the future when it works like it should. Simultaneous attacks with 4x2 joint weapons and TGP are a big advantage of the Hornet. Looking forward to the upcoming patches.

[Tom Kazansky]

btw. the test works fine with 4 JSOWs on 4 stations.

 

 

but it does not work with 2x2 (station 2+8 ) + 2 (station 3+7). latter led me to a point where after the 1st 4 hits (station 2+8 ) I couldn't even select TOO anymore. odd.

 

 

if this is a known issue maybe even fixed internally, plz let me know.

[obious]

btw. the test works fine with 4 JSOWs on 4 stations.

 

 

but it does not work with 2x2 (station 2+8 ) + 2 (station 3+7). latter led me to a point where after the 1st 4 hits (station 2+8 ) I couldn't even select TOO anymore. odd.

 

 

if this is a known issue maybe even fixed internally, plz let me know.

 

How did the test work for 4 jsows on four different pylons? I thought both TOO modes applied globally to all stations?

[Tom Kazansky]

How did the test work for 4 jsows on four different pylons? I thought both TOO modes applied globally to all stations?

 

 

To clarifiy: the test is about dropping 2x2 JSOWs simultaniously (with TOO1 + TOO2). Means 2 attacks with 2 J's each. (Each attack has a pair of 2 new coordinates assigned to TOO1/2)

[Tom Kazansky]

I just did some tests with JDAMs (not JSOWs) and I guess I give up and wait for the next update bc they showed other behaviour. (Worked with 3x2JDAMs but not with the last 4JDAMs when 4x2JDAMs used.)

 

 

(never forget: I use stable DCS version. don't know if/how yesterday's OB update has any impact on this issue. patchnotes did not show something like that.)

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Could someone explain what QTY does EXACTLY...

 

thanks

[Top Jockey]

Could someone explain what QTY does EXACTLY...

 

thanks

 

Pertinent question indeed, as always I tweak with that QTY and MULTY options, my JSOWs and other ordnance doesn't release symetrically anymore.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Top Jockey

[Tom Kazansky]

don't know what QTY does now, but after last update I don't use/need it any more with J-wpns.

 

 

everything works fine now with JSOWs and JDAMs. BIG THANKS ED! :thumbup:

 

 

works like that:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4146654&postcount=1

Edited December 24, 2019 by Tom Kazansky

[Tholozor]

QTY selection allows you to release multiple weapons with a single press. If you do not use QTY selection, only the currently active station will release. I had to retrain myself to use QTY selection again when releasing multiple JDAMs, as I had gotten used to selecting the stations in QTY in order to step between them. Found out in bad ways I wasn't releasing all my weapons on the first press and fumbled in the pit a little wondering what was wrong while dodging SA-10.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Tholozor

[Santi871]

As confusing as it is there's only one correct (non bugged) way that it should work. As far as I tested, as long as I didn't make a settings mistake, it works, but if anyone finds it to not work then it should be reported.

 

PP mode + QTY boxed or unboxed => each station has unique PP missions (ie they are not shared)

 

TOO mode + QTY unboxed => each station has unique TOO1 and 2 missions (they are not shared)

 

TOO mode + QTY boxed => selected stations share TOO1 and 2

 

Passing TOO missions to the jdams can be easy to **** up, mostly because:

 

* TOO mode has to be set per station (ie you have to step through all them and change PP to TOO)

 

* If you want to designate multiple targets, you have to make sure to step through every station once and once only, designate a target for each one, and when you have reached the last station, you HAVE to undesignate.

 

This is because the currently designated target is passed to the selected TOO mission on the selected station, so if you don't undesignate, as you pickle and the stores management cycles to the next station, your current designation will overwrite what was in there previously. Have in mind undesignating does not erase the coordinates stored in a TOO mission.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Santi871

[LastRifleRound]

If you have more than 1 qty selected and are using pp, to which station does the HSD symbology apply?

[Tom Kazansky]

after a test with TOO and 4 JDAMs I found out that you can even asign 4 TOO targets to 4 different JDAMs/stations and then press RTN (return) and use/select all 4 stations on the QTY page, so the 4 JDAMs are to be released with one pickle and hit those 4 targets. but this has not much use, because 4 single pickels don't take that much more time. but that's how it works too with QTY and TOO.