requested VR head moves through closed Cockpit

[Lt_Jaeger]

Why would you stick your head out of the cockpit purposeful? I do everything possible to keep it real, I even manually operate switches which would be better put on a hotas but weren't in the real thing. 

 

If you concerned about cheating, make a pledge for disabling trackir crazy head moves. 

[unlikely_spider]

20 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Why would you stick your head out of the cockpit purposeful? I do everything possible to keep it real, I even manually operate switches which would be better put on a hotas but weren't in the real thing. 

 

If you concerned about cheating, make a pledge for disabling trackir crazy head moves. 

I don't know about others, but I don't do it purposefully. It just happens as I look around.

[Dunx]

31 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Why would you stick your head out of the cockpit purposeful? I do everything possible to keep it real, I even manually operate switches which would be better put on a hotas but weren't in the real thing. 

 

If you concerned about cheating, make a pledge for disabling trackir crazy head moves. 

 

Wing walking... is real.

[Baldrick33]

2 hours ago, kablamoman said:

Game absolutely needs head limits for closed canopy. It is implemented just fine in the other sim.

 

I should be an option for single player just like any other realism setting and enforceable by server admins.

 

For those worried about nausea the simple solution is to... not put your head through the canopy!!

A popular online sim racing game enforces a limit on positional tracking, to avoid any advantage someone might gain from having a view outside of the cockpit. It works ok as in normal race driving there is still ample scope for head movement. If you want to rubberneck and check out your opponents behind you by looking over the airbox the positional tracking comes to an abrupt stop and the car moves with you. It is pretty horrible but fortunately easily to prevent. A flight sim isn't so easy as you do look around a lot more and will come across the limits more regularly. Switching from 6dof to 3dof tracking will undoubtedly cause nausea for some. Having it forced on in a multiplayer server doesn't sound a great idea.

 

Fading out the view beyond limits may be a better option to avoid the 6dof/3dof switch but still might mess with our heads.

 

 

[Nealius]

58 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Why would you stick your head out of the cockpit purposeful? I do everything possible to keep it real, I even manually operate switches which would be better put on a hotas but weren't in the real thing. 

 

If you concerned about cheating, make a pledge for disabling trackir crazy head moves. 

 

In small cockpits like the Spit and Anton it's almost unavoidable, especially if you're on a standard swiveling office chair. 

[=475FG= Dawger]

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

It is something we have discussed internally, but at the moment we do not want to restrict the head movement due to the effect it has on some with motion sickness.

 

Something that has been mentioned was a blur effect if the head leaves the cockpit, but this is just discussion currently.

 

thanks

VR is already blurry, especially at the edges. 
 

I would expect a refund for the small canopy modules already purchased with this new limitation added. 

 

Why is this a concern yet there is absolutely no interest in preventing this sort of behavior?

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by pmiceli

[Jenson]

I have no idea why you try to move your head out of the canopy, I think it's okay to unrestrict the view. 

[kablamoman]

It's abrupt and jarring when your ear accidentally moves outside the confines of the canopy and you get blasted with the slipstream sound. I absolutely want realistic limits on head travel -- even if it was just for myself and nobody else was restricted -- for this reason alone.

 

The big problem aside from this is that people actually do stick their heads outside the canopy intentionally to get a clear and unobstructed view of their six, around the nose, or just to see without having to look through the material of the canopy itself. This completely nullifies any advantages or disadvantages that may be inherent in a particular cockpit design (the closed in and confined canopy of a 109 vs. a big old roomy bubble canopy with the american fighters).

 

Being able to completely ignore the physical boundaries of the tiny bird cage you're stuck in is gamey to the max, and antithetical to any kind of immersive sim experience. Doubley so if you're playing online against other people.

 

The limit is sorely needed. At least as an option for those that want it. At best as something available for server admins that actually wish to enforce the rule.

 

The old "anything that artificially moves a players head in VR" rule of thumb is both outdated, and completely ridiculous in a VR sim experience that is entirely based on artificially moving the player's head through the air and over the ground at over 500 miles per hour. This is just one of many things that could be done to improve the VR implementation in DCS. For god's sake please implement it ASAP.

Edited August 12, 2021 by kablamoman

[Knock-Knock]

14 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

I would expect a refund for the small canopy modules already purchased with this new limitation added. 

Im with you on this. As I mentioned in another VR head movement restriction obsession thread, I would stop playing in VR instantly if this shit got enforced, maybe even altogether cause I love VR. I get motion sick fast from anything that moves my virtual head (except when I ask for it), or stops its movement - yes I have tried it in another flight sim and in a racing simulator.

These strange obsessions with imaginery multiplayer balance. Wanna restrict framerates too? There are people out there having all the bells and whistles on at a smooth 100 fps, while there are others that run lowest possible settings and barely maintain 25 fps. Lets enforce a 25 fps framecap with low visual range shall we?

[Baldrick33]

2 hours ago, kablamoman said:

The old "anything that artificially moves a players head in VR" rule of thumb is both outdated, and completely ridiculous in a VR sim experience that is entirely based on artificially moving the player's head through the air and over the ground at over 500 miles per hour. This is just one of many things that could be done to improve the VR implementation in DCS. For god's sake please implement it ASAP.

 

I disagree, it is why seated VR games without any kind of simulated head or body movement other than your own work so well for people who would get motion sickness playing any kind of first person shooter or similar in VR which simulate body motion. Even g force effects in race and flying sims should always be an option to turn off in my view, as they mess with the brain without the physical force. All the movement displayed should equate 1:1 with the player’s head, the moment it doesn’t it breaks immersion and can cause nausea with the mismatch of what we see and feel for some. Forcing it just adds an unnecessary barrier to entry to VR.

[Dunx]

I can still pop my canopy, then what?

[kablamoman]

11 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

I disagree, it is why seated VR games without any kind of simulated head or body movement other than your own work so well for people who would get motion sickness playing any kind of first person shooter or similar in VR which simulate body motion. Even g force effects in race and flying sims should always be an option to turn off in my view, as they mess with the brain without the physical force. All the movement displayed should equate 1:1 with the player’s head, the moment it doesn’t it breaks immersion and can cause nausea with the mismatch of what we see and feel for some. Forcing it just adds an unnecessary barrier to entry to VR.

 

With respect, this attitude is the minority, though I understand it, I really do.

 

There is a real problem here, though, and that is that players can simply phase their heads through cockpit geometry to do things like check six -- this completely disregards the very important factor of how a fighter's canopy was designed, and how it compares with its contemporaries in the context of a combat encounter. In a game that strives to incorporate and faithfully reproduce all of an aircraft's performance and design features, the fact that this is completely made irrelevant is a glaring omission.

 

I do acknowledge that there is a real disadvantage (when it comes to the potential for motion sickness) to enforcing hard cockpit limits with regards to translational movement in VR, but it is my opinion that it would healthier for the overall experience and for the vast majority of players in adversarial online environments if it were enforced. Single player, or servers that don't care to enforce the rule, I have absolutely no problem with. But at the very least it needs to be an option for players that wish to have it.

Perhaps a reasonable alternative for those prone to motion sickness on servers that choose to enforce a limit, would be an alternative method for "fading out" the player's view when exceeding boundaries. This would satisfy the requirement for those sensitive to motion sickness, and could be available as an alternative option for them.

 

The vast majority of players would prefer the other method (hard limits on translational movement that would collide with the canopy), I do truly believe.

 

Regardless: Limits, however implemented, are absolutely required when it comes to flying these otherwise beautifully simulated warbirds online.

Edited August 12, 2021 by kablamoman

[NineLine]

I think we need to look at an option of some sort. We will review and request something for this. Thanks.