My first semi-successful AAR. Do you guys have wake turbulence on?

[S. Low]

I finally got it figured out enough to get the thing in the thing, and hold it for about 20 seconds. Then I looked at my fuel page and was super irritated at the slow transfer rate and lost my groove, disconnected, reconnected several times but couldn't hold for very long. Very difficult, but I'm happy with my progress so far.

 

But I'm wondering, do most people have wake turb off? It seems to make aar much more difficult lol.

[Eaglewings]

Way to go. Congrats.

It is the gradual process that get you equipped for an effortless AAR.

Just keep at it and it would become part of you.

I personally struggled at first but with disjointed success like you are doing now, I got it eventually.

 

As for wake turbulence, yes it makes aar much more difficult to do. You want to turn this off as you are climbing the rope now.

 

To beat wake turbulence, I do not fly directly behind the tanker all the way in.

I would fly formation with the tanker on his left wing a little above the tanker and then go below to enter pre-contact position. I get not as much wake turbulence effect at this point.

Basically you want to avoid the spiral ring generated behind the tanker.

 

Setting wake turbulence on creat some glitch in vr so most times I have it turned off to gain smoothness in vr.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Eaglewings

[Poopskadoop]

I just recently started getting it right myself. I think the two biggest tips that helped me that I've seen repeated are to use the refueling pod as your center line reference, never the basket, and to be constantly adjusting the throttle. I make very small, quick adjustments back and forth on the throttle, which helps maintain my speed by averaging out any errors in my speed. Otherwise, it might seem like you've got the right speed for a second, but the more time passes between adjustments, the further back or forward you will fly. I don't use auto thrust control or any autopilot settings.

 

Using those two tricks, I went from flailing around like an idiot to getting it on my first try. Oh, also, I never dare look down at the fuel quantity.

[bies]

Yes and wake turbulence is not making AAR harder - you are not supposed to fly directly behind the tanker but first to the left, than below to contact.

[Ziptie]

Congrats. Yes, I fly with wake turbulence. Most should, unknown how many do and don’t. As another stated, you shouldn’t approach the tanker from it’s dead 6. Should be offset to the side your drogue will be contacted, then ease in for contact after being cleared.

 

AAR is good practice, for future AAR and for formation flying.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

[donkeyrider]

Firstly congrats - this is the hardest thing to do in DCS.

 

I fly with it both on and off depending on my mood. My philosophy is that it's your simulator so you should fly it anyway you like.

 

Poopskadoop described how I do it as well. Pod as your reference point and continual micro adjustments with the throttle. once you're connected keep watching that pod and try to stay behind it.

 

I normally bring up the fuel page on one of the DDIs. Much easier to keep track of your quantity rather than looking down at the IFEI. I think it takes around 3 minutes to get a full load if you don't have external tanks. Mind you, it's a very long 3 minutes.

[Shimmergloom667]

Yeah, always with wake turb. Once you connected a few times it is just super easy to AAR, so at this point I am wishing they would add basket physics to make it a bit more engaging.

[VpR81]

Gratulations. Keep training and you will increase your AAR skills pretty fast. Refueling the Hornet completely for the first time was the hardest task while learning AAR. But as soon as this was achieved, it felt like AAR skills increased faster than before. And yes, wake turb. has been turned on from the beginning. IMO there is no point in learning AAR without wake turb. and then later turn it on and start learning AAR again from a point you already passed. Training AAR is also a good way to train formation flight btw.

Edited February 22, 2020 by VpR81

[Emmy]

Good Job. Great feeling when it “clicks”

 

We do run with WT ON on our servers.

[CBStu]

Great progress. I have never hit the basket. I gave up and started learning other skills. One thought I have is what are you using for a throttle? I had mostly given up on carrier traps until I spent the $ for a Warthog throttle. I think the need in both carrier traps and AAR is very similar. You need really fine control.

[NahkaSukka]

I don't feel it's any harder to refuel with wake turbulence on. Might shake a little bit if you approach the tanker straigth from behind, F-14 shakes pretty violently. But when connected i don't feel any difference.

[Ziptie]

I don't feel it's any harder to refuel with wake turbulence on. Might shake a little bit if you approach the tanker straigth from behind, F-14 shakes pretty violently. But when connected i don't feel any difference.

 

It simply changes your approach and and what happens if/when you stray from a good alignment with the drogue.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

[S. Low]

Hey all, thanks for the support and info! Much appreciated.

 

Someone asked what throttle I use. I have it listed: TWCS Throttle (the inexpensive thrustmaster throttle, $60ish).

 

I don't approach from the 6 anymore, I did learn that bit lol. My problem is still PIO. After gently banking in from the observation point, I begin lining up as best I can, and so far it's pretty common for me to get into a bit of PIO which puts me into wake which screws everything up.

 

But perhaps it's not wake so much as just regular turbulence because it certainly isn't perfectly smooth flying even if I'm where I'm supposed to be right by the basket. I'm bumped around ever so slightly.

 

I'm so freakin tense the entire time, which is why the transfer rate got to me lol. I know from my (sim) piloting experience with choppers that I have to relax and let the jet feel like an extension, but that just takes more practice I suppose. For now I'm basically flexing the entire time , so tense. So tense.

[Bruce_D]

Hi,

 

Did you tune the axis of your joystick correctly?

 

That's the best advise that I can give you. After I manage the correct tune AAR become so easy.

 

I spent 2 months without playing and had no problem to come back and do an AAR on the firts attempt. It's amazing the difference between a good and a terrible tune can do.

 

Good luck

[Eaglewings]

PIO is another hurdle to jump. Struggled with this too.

When within the visinity of the drogue/basket, it is all about tiny adjustment in pitch, roll and throttle axis. Be quick to also counter the pitch, roll and throttle movements to stay lined up to whatever(refuel pod) and the tanker's speed.

Same tiny adjustments applies to stay connected to the tanker.

 

As suggested, try adjustment in you control deadzone/saturation department to find what suits you. I think control adjustment is subjective as hotas setup are different. Get a setting that fits your needs

 

Also like to mention 3D view in vr helps tremendously to overcome all the problem that AAR present . This is not to say it is not achievable in 2D monitor but your chances are greatly improved because you see things in 3D.

 

All the best and I have to say the satisfaction that comes from doing AAR successfully is immense beside the fact that it is very crucial in some missions.

[Steel Jaw]

Did you tune the axis of your joystick correctly?

 

 

What does this entail please?

[victorlima01]

Great to hear that wake turbulence is forcing DCS flyers into doing it the real way. Intercepting and joining up on bearing line like the pros do it is one of the most satisfying things to learn in immersive military simming. And its as crucial a skill to master as AAR and flying around the boat.

 

I personally take great joy from the admin portions of the flights. Keep at it and in no time you'll be a pro. It took me months but online missions with my virtual VFA helped tremendously. I either had to get that fuel or I couldn't go tactical and had to fly back to the boat alone. Did happen a couple of times lol

[Bruce_D]

What does this entail please?

 

Hi,

 

Because we have a toy joystick at home it's fisical movements are different from the game stick a throttle movement.

 

To correct this problem we have to tune the axis of the joysticks.

 

At leats 90% of the problems that I used to have with AAR was due to the fact that my joystick config was wrong.

 

With a wrong tune even a small input on your joystick increases the plane AoA more than necessary to hit the basket. The same happens with throttle. Even a small imput increases dramatically the speed.

 

This video shows the way to tune your joystick's axis:

 

Remember to input a curve on your joystick and a slider on your throttle.

 

Hope This can help

Edited February 23, 2020 by Bruce_D

[SkaldDKO]

As a newbie in AAR I’ve noticed that it’s easier to deal with PIO if you approach with some speed (about 3 knots, 1-2 gives much bigger PIO), but your speed should be decreasing before the moment of contact with basket for me it’s a most comfortable variant

[S. Low]

Hi,

 

Did you tune the axis of your joystick correctly?

 

That's the best advise that I can give you. After I manage the correct tune AAR become so easy.

 

I spent 2 months without playing and had no problem to come back and do an AAR on the firts attempt. It's amazing the difference between a good and a terrible tune can do.

 

Good luck

 

I don't think I'm very good at finding good curves so I just used Chuck's curves from his hornet guide I think. Can't recall, might be 21 curve on both x and y.

[Bruce_D]

I don't think I'm very good at finding good curves so I just used Chuck's curves from his hornet guide I think. Can't recall, might be 21 curve on both x and y.

 

I've tried Chuck's curves (he uses 15 for x and y), but the best for me was 25 x and y with a dead zone 4

 

For throttle (very important) I use slider with -14 . Chuck's manual does not give his throttle's curve on the manual.

 

For rudder I use 25 with a dead zone of 4.

 

After finding this curves for my joystick the AAR become easy. Waste a little beat of time to find the best curves for your joystick, you will fell the difference.

 

My joystick is a X52 Pro

Edited February 23, 2020 by Bruce_D

[S. Low]

Pitch and roll axis curves sound good.

 

Can you elaborate, why the slider and why negative value for the throttle?

 

And oh my goodness why the curve for the rudder? I mainly fly rw so curving a rudder sounds like crazy town to me. Please elaborate :)

[mdee]

I fly with wake turbulence, don't have any curves and don't really have any issues with AAR. (Vripil stick and throttle). It's kind of automatic at this point.

 

Don't look at the basket and don't use any arbitrary reference points on the tanker to align to (there are some tutorials out there recommending doing this) - the tanker is your reference point, lights on the pod are more precise guide.

[Bruce_D]

Pitch and roll axis curves sound good.

 

Can you elaborate, why the slider and why negative value for the throttle?

 

And oh my goodness why the curve for the rudder? I mainly fly rw so curving a rudder sounds like crazy town to me. Please elaborate :)

 

Hi,

 

Here is a post where I asked the same question about slider: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=238778&page=6

 

The negative value was a tip that one guy gave me on the forum so I started to test. I compared the position of my throttle with the rpm of the plane. For example, on the f-14 I discovered that my best curve was -15 and the f18 is -14, which is very similar with the tip that I received.

 

If you take a look on the movements of the throttle and the negative curve of the slider graphic you will see the similarity.

 

I tested curves from -10 to -20 and compared the rpm movement.

 

The curves on my rudder are because my rudder is on my stick, so I control it with my hand. Some times, during turns I saw that I was using involuntary the rudder, so I put a curve to prevent this undesired movement.

 

Hope I could help.

[Bruce_D]

I fly with wake turbulence, don't have any curves and don't really have any issues with AAR. (Vripil stick and throttle). It's kind of automatic at this point.

 

Don't look at the basket and don't use any arbitrary reference points on the tanker to align to (there are some tutorials out there recommending doing this) - the tanker is your reference point, lights on the pod are more precise guide.

 

In your case you can not use curves. Your stick has a great similarity with the real plane stick.

 

Just for a comparison my stick has half the arc of yours and 1/3 of the precision. Thats why I need curves and you don't.