Partial 80s West vs. East Germany, GUIK or North Atlantic like in Fleet Defender

[TheCabal]

Hi there guys,

 

what about that? The second suggestion in the title is from Microprose Fleet Defender. GIUK gap would be cool too.

 

Greetings,

Cabal

[Northstar98]

Yes absolutely yes, any one of these I would kill for in DCS.

[TheCabal]

[speed-of-heat]

Wouldn’t that be very big, by comparison to their other maps? By the way, I’d like it too, I guess that’s why it’s a wish list

[Northstar98]

Wouldn’t that be very big, by comparison to their other maps

 

Unfortunately yes, by a long way, unless you choose a very specific region.

 

The only exception is Germany, which would be the smallest one by far (even if we extend into Belgium, the Netherlands, Poland and Denmark); but at the same time a tonne of objects (even for an 80s map) but at least there's plenty of historical airbases available for both red and blue, and finally a hi-fi green theatre as opposed to all of the sand...

[Harlikwin]

The marianas is a huge map but its 99% water. Rendering water is easy. The falklands map will be huge too. So GUIK gap is probably doable as long as the land area itself is limited to mostly iceland, maybe some low res of greenland and then the remaining islands and maybe like the upper tip of scotland.

 

That being said, where would the reds take off and land? Do we have enough red naval assets for the period? Is the actual naval modeling up to snuff (hint no, not by a long shot). Do we have enough cold war naval assets? Nope.

[speed-of-heat]

Well the Falklands are about 5000 sq miles on the ground, and Iceland is more like 10 times that.. and yes I hadn’t even considered the red-for... but yes we would need a Warsaw Pact naval assets pack, as a minimum...

[Northstar98]

The good things with the Falklands and Iceland is that they're fairly barren, I'm not sure that the mesh itself is the source of performance issues, more the number of objects.

 

Iceland does have more varied and I would say more complex terrain AFAIK, but that's really it, it's fairly sparse to my knowledge.

 

 

As for red aircraft on a GIUK gap map? No idea, SF2: NA had land based stuff operating out of airfields in the north-east, but to my knowledge they're not suitable for things like bombers.

 

But even so, we don't even have Cold War bombers to begin with, they're all fairly modern (well maybe apart from the Su-24M/MR and Tu-142).

 

But there's so many assets missing for 80s era stuff, both blue and red, especially for naval stuff.

 

I mean look at RAZBAM's lightning.... Yay, great a British jet (even if, erm, yeah) but kind of a misfit at the moment in DCS, because there's nothing it historically intercepts, everything is too modern.

[Harlikwin]

I think terrain wise it would be doable. Look at the PG or Cauc land area.

 

But more importantly, whats the play going to be? We dint have anything resembling the proper assets on either side for any period. Maaaybe the viggen (which is a bit later, and has fancy TERNAV) but would likely just be used for anti-shipping strikes, and you could say they escaped Sweden and Norway which are now where the Russians are staging out of? But we really have no red units for that aside from AI and maaaybe the FC3 SU-27.

 

I mean the best scenario i can think of for the marianas is some weird and highly unrealistic deal where the Chinese (modern) or Russians (70's-80s) capture the islands somehow (LOL) and then a US CVBG is used to take them back. So that overall scenario might work for iceland too.

 

Of course we have no chinese planes. Or modern russian ones except FC3.

 

Overall its the standard DCS problem of just a really incoherent plane set along with a really limited Core game/assets with planes and assets added willy nilly aside from WW2.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Harlikwin

[stuart666]

Its funny, I was just about to post this one. :D

 

 

Yes, East and West Germany would be just about perfect. We have all the major combat aircraft to make it viable. The real problem is going to be the urbanization which would be challenging, but setting it in the mid 80's would cut out a lot of urban sprawl. But PC's are getting faster clearly this is one that wouldbe in much demand.

[bies]

This would be the most moody map possible. Nearly all combat planes developed after WWII were designed to fight on this specific theatre.

[SharkWizard]

The good things with the Falklands and Iceland is that they're fairly barren, I'm not sure that the mesh itself is the source of performance issues, more the number of objects.

 

Iceland does have more varied and I would say more complex terrain AFAIK, but that's really it, it's fairly sparse to my knowledge.

 

 

As for red aircraft on a GIUK gap map? No idea, SF2: NA had land based stuff operating out of airfields in the north-east, but to my knowledge they're not suitable for things like bombers.

 

But even so, we don't even have Cold War bombers to begin with, they're all fairly modern (well maybe apart from the Su-24M/MR and Tu-142).

 

But there's so many assets missing for 80s era stuff, both blue and red, especially for naval stuff.

 

I mean look at RAZBAM's lightning.... Yay, great a British jet (even if, erm, yeah) but kind of a misfit at the moment in DCS, because there's nothing it historically intercepts, everything is too modern.

 

Redfor can take off from Jan Mayen (1,6km) or they could use the runway at Egilsstaðir 1,8 km or Akureyri 2,4 km if they got to North East Iceland. Runways at Keflavík are only slightly longer at 3km each

 

[Northstar98]

 

Redfor can take off from Jan Mayen (1,6km) or they could use the runway at Egilsstaðir 1,8 km or Akureyri 2,4 km if they got to North East Iceland. Runways at Keflavík are only slightly longer at 3km each

 

Hmm, the first 2 seem a little short (in my testing fully-fuelled Tu-22M or Tu-95s struggle to get off the ground without running off the end of the Runway at Krymsk, which is 2.6km long according to the chart), I guess you can always take a fair bit of fuel out of them.

 

And even so, we're still missing assets to make such a map really worth while, even if it's one I would really love to see (mind you, that's not much different from current maps either :music_whistling:)...

 

[Baco]

The good thing about South Atlantic Map is that you have half the units you need for GIUK gap ;) Thanks to Razbam trying to give us a coherent set of assets ;)

[CarloVecchi]

A cold war middle Europe map would be very welcome!

[Archduke]

Oooooh yes, a 80s Germany map! Please!

I would get to accidentally drop some Mark84s on my High School.

 

But to be honest I doubt it would be feasible with a level of accuracy comparable to the other maps. Germany is (and was in the 80s) an extremely urbanised country. If this were to be modelled with any accuracy at all it would be an enormous undertaking.

[bies]

 

Fulda Gap in 1980s all out war in Europe WARPAC vs NATO.

I've been watching this as a small kid and only later noticed how faithfully different weapon systems had been recreated, even details like i.e.

F-15 Eagle cockpit. And this was made in 1982.

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by bies

[TheCabal]

Bumping the thread. It should not be forgotton and needs to be seen by others as well.

Stay safe!

[Top Jockey]

+ 1 here !

[TheCabal]

This thread won't go down. +1

[Kazansky222]

+100 The only map I've wanted was like an East-West Germany Fulda Gap map circa 1989. As big as can be reasonably done within technical constraints.

[TheCabal]

There is too much talk about maps like Korea (don't we have enough of it a little bit after two decades of Falcon 4.0 (now BMS)?) and other possible maps which I can't connect to any well known wars in the past. People come up with lot's of strange stuff..... but anyway: A NATO vs. Soviet Union in Europe (West Germany/DDR/Poland) could be a fine thing. The 70s/80s are ignored too much. Especially old school guys should be drawn towards that era...

[Northstar98]

Just to add a little more, here is a pretty fantastic resource for Cold War airbases on the map.

 

It also includes things like NAVAIDs etc.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Northstar98

[Kazansky222]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:03 AM, Northstar98 said:

Just to add a little more, here is a pretty fantastic resource for Cold War airbases on the map.

 

It also includes things like NAVAIDs etc.

 

 

That is really cool, I had no idea there were so many. Heres a cool little resource that shows some maps with SAM placement in East Germany as well.

 

http://geimint.blogspot.com/2008/08/ddr-air-defense-cold-war-case-study.html

[ojanim]

If we may dream than yes, I want a cold war map BRD vs DDR.