announced DCS MiG-29A

[TotenDead]

1 час назад, Seaeagle сказал:

No I don't mind liveries for other sub-variants either. In the grand scale of things(MiG-29 versions), the technical differences between 9.12/9.12A and 9.12B are miniscule anyway. 

 

Visual difference might be miniscule, but technical ones..?

[Seaeagle]

On 1/26/2025 at 2:13 PM, Flаnker said:

It seems to me that in the context of liveries, when determining the required list of liveries, the modification will not be taken into account. The priority will be liveries for countries whose maps are (or are planned) in the simulator or which are often used in missions or campaigns (USSR/Russia, Ukraine, Iran, Syria, Germany, Czechoslovakia)

Well that would be a little odd considering that ED never seems to take such things(relevance to maps/scenarios, timeframe or available opposition) into account when deciding on an aircraft module and its modification(variant and upgrades).

They do however, tend to be very ademant about keeping strictly to the specific features of their chosen variant - I don't see why liveries should be exempt from that philosophy.

[Seaeagle]

23 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Visual difference might be miniscule, but technical ones..?

Technical ones too. 

 

 

[TotenDead]

12 минут назад, Seaeagle сказал:

Technical ones too. 

 

 

Not in terms of avionics. I might be corrected, but I believe it's something like Iraqi F-16s compared to the US ones

[Flаnker]

11 часов назад, Seaeagle сказал:

Well that would be a little odd considering that ED never seems to take such things(relevance to maps/scenarios, timeframe or available opposition) into account when deciding on an aircraft module and its modification(variant and upgrades).

They do however, tend to be very ademant about keeping strictly to the specific features of their chosen variant - I don't see why liveries should be exempt from that philosophy.

It seems to me that liveries are more "entertainment content" that is aimed at improving the visual component of the module (which contributes to the sales of the module). Therefore, an exception can be made for liveries. Well, and 99.9% of users will not notice this. Just like the F18A liveries were used for the F-18C module or, for example, the Spanish liveries for the American version of the F18.

[skywalker22]

100th page of Mig-29A  

[draconus]

3 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

100th page of Mig-29A  

But it's a B

[skywalker22]

7 hours ago, draconus said:

But it's a B

No, its definitely an A.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

No, its definitely an A.

We've already had this discussion...

 

[portman]

Am 27.1.2025 um 20:21 schrieb TotenDead:

Not in terms of avionics. I might be corrected, but I believe it's something like Iraqi F-16s compared to the US ones

As far as I remember, an East German pilot once stated that the only difference between 9.12 and 9.12A was that one (!) radar mode was deactivated in the 9.12A. I don't remember which one, but I can have a look when I'm back home.

[TotenDead]

2 часа назад, portman сказал:

As far as I remember, an East German pilot once stated that the only difference between 9.12 and 9.12A was that one (!) radar mode was deactivated in the 9.12A. I don't remember which one, but I can have a look when I'm back home.

I was mainly talking about 9.12B

[okopanja]

13 hours ago, draconus said:

But it's a B

Any visual ques?

If I recall correctly Hungary got them after the Warsaw Pact dissolved. From that point it could be B

[draconus]

5 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Any visual ques?

HuAF and roundel.

[okopanja]

12 minutes ago, draconus said:

HuAF and roundel.

I meant the technical details. Is there any visual difference other than paint?

[draconus]

1 hour ago, okopanja said:

I meant the technical details. Is there any visual difference other than paint?

Triple IFF antenna under nose.

 

[bies]

9.12 was baseline Soviet model.

9.12A for WarPac, basically the same, lacked one ECCM radar mode (not relevant in DCS at this moment) and had slightly different IFF and antenna.

9.12B for export outside of WarPac, e.g. India, Iraq, Yugoslavia, North Korea, Hungary, Peru, ldowngraded radar, SPO-10 instead of SPO-15, lacked IFF, lacked GCI datalink, sometimes lacking Schel helmet sight, limited countermeasures, 

[okopanja]

2 minutes ago, bies said:

9.12 was baseline Soviet model.

9.12A for WarPac, basically the same, lacked one ECCM radar mode (not relevant in DCS at this moment) and had slightly different IFF and antenna.

9.12B for export outside of WarPac, e.g. India, Iraq, Yugoslavia, North Korea, Hungary, Peru, ldowngraded radar, SPO-10 instead of SPO-15, lacked IFF, lacked GCI datalink, sometimes lacking Schel helmet sight, limited countermeasures, 

Yugoslavia had SPO-15 from the very start. In fact the training of initial batch of pilots happened roughly at the same time as Warsaw pact countries. E.g. 1 month earlier the Eastern Germans were there.

Also GCI Lazur cabine for 29s were delivered and I do know one of them was deployed on the top of Goleš mountain (bumped into sat image marking its position). Irrespective plan was to have these 29s integrated into AS-84, just like Mig-21bis was integrated. Sadly no R-27T.

As for downgraded radar, I did not find any specific details for that.

It looks like delivered options are different from country to country.

[bies]

Yes, 9.12B wasn't a "standard", like 9.12 or 9.12A, it was negotiated separately.

[59th_Buncsi]

We had the 9.12B in Hungary. IFF and other changes were made after joining the NATO. And none of the operational Fulcrums had SPO-10. Neither hungarian nor other nation's.

[Lyrode]

2025/1/28 AM2点50分，Seaeagle说：

They do however, tend to be very ademant about keeping strictly to the specific features of their chosen variant

Consider it a good reason to reject most of the requests.

However if they did stick to their variant philosophy, our export Mig must lose ER, ET.

The rules are flexible.

[AeriaGloria]

14 hours ago, portman said:

As far as I remember, an East German pilot once stated that the only difference between 9.12 and 9.12A was that one (!) radar mode was deactivated in the 9.12A. I don't remember which one, but I can have a look when I'm back home.

 

10 hours ago, bies said:

9.12 was baseline Soviet model.

9.12A for WarPac, basically the same, lacked one ECCM radar mode (not relevant in DCS at this moment) and had slightly different IFF and antenna.

9.12B for export outside of WarPac, e.g. India, Iraq, Yugoslavia, North Korea, Hungary, Peru, ldowngraded radar, SPO-10 instead of SPO-15, lacked IFF, lacked GCI datalink, sometimes lacking Schel helmet sight, limited countermeasures, 

It is called “SP” or “Free Search” mode. Operates like any other mode but instead of range shows velocity. Soviet pilots weren’t fans. 
 

However, I am starting to feel differently after realizing that MiG-29 9.12/9.13 HUD does not show target velocity (or likely height) when locked in STT………. Very sad 

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

It is called “SP” or “Free Search” mode. Operates like any other mode but instead of range shows velocity. Soviet pilots weren’t fans. 

In the West it's usually called "Velocity search" or some such, and Pete Bonanni had some choice words to say about it ("a joke played on the Viper pilots by Westinghouse engineers"), so I guess this is a fairly universal sentiment.

[draconus]

8 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

MiG-29 9.12/9.13 HUD does not show target velocity (or likely height) when locked in STT

You have the target symbol so you know the azimuth and relative altitude. On the range scale you will notice closing rate.

[AeriaGloria]

23 hours ago, draconus said:

You have the target symbol so you know the azimuth and relative altitude. On the range scale you will notice closing rate.

Sure, but having to judge in your head velocity by aspect and change in the range scale over time (usual in a scale of 25/50/100 km depending on range at BVR distance) is a poor replacement for actually knowing velocity, especially in BVR when a target speed will have a very large impact on the threat of their missiles. 
 

We will have to use Lazur or GCI/AWACs to truly know if the target is matching us in speed or significantly deviating 

One thing the Su-27 HUD also does better. Along with velocity in 5 kmh increments. Right HUD border, elevation carat on HUD, notch marker, IRST dish displacement marker, more Lazur/Beryuza commands, etc

[TotenDead]

В 29.01.2025 в 20:18, Lyrode сказал:

Consider it a good reason to reject most of the requests.

However if they did stick to their variant philosophy, our export Mig must lose ER, ET.

The rules are flexible.

Even soviet migs couldn't use those. R-73s, on the other hand, could be removed. For example, Iraqi MiG-29s were only equipped with R-60Ms