b0bl00i Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Tried out some Just Dogfight servers online (with G-model set to realistic) in the Viper. Well, it not realistic at all. I start blacking out when pushing above 7G. Can only sustain 9G for like a second, then I can't see anything. I doubt this is realistic and it makes the Viper useless in BFM. I've seen several videos of people sustaining 9 G for a lot longer than what DCS offers. Also, my father in law, being an ex fighter pilot in the Swedish Airforce also confirms this is not realistic at all. ED, please investigate and make the necessarry adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny_P Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 It's being 'investigated'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted August 10, 2020 ED Team Share Posted August 10, 2020 Tried out some Just Dogfight servers online (with G-model set to realistic) in the Viper. Well, it not realistic at all. I start blacking out when pushing above 7G. Can only sustain 9G for like a second, then I can't see anything. I doubt this is realistic and it makes the Viper useless in BFM. I've seen several videos of people sustaining 9 G for a lot longer than what DCS offers. Also, my father in law, being an ex fighter pilot in the Swedish Airforce also confirms this is not realistic at all. ED, please investigate and make the necessarry adjustments. Do you perform warm-up loads? Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfas Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 ED is simulating Weakest Pilot, Lack of G training and Fly without proper G-suit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fab Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 I can sustain 8 to 8,5 G rather long in the f/16 without blackout... Your doing it wrong... Intel Core i7-6700K Cpu 4.00 GHz OC 4.8 GHz Water Cooled|32 GB DDR4 ram OC| Nvidia RTX 2080Ti| TrustMaster Warthog|Saitek Battle Pro Pedals | Logitec G13| Oculus Rift S :joystick: I´m in for a ride, a VR ride:pilotfly: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBX_-Hml7_7s1dggit_vGpA?view_as=public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torri Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 The blackout limit is at around 7.8 Gs. After this, the more Gs you add only shortens time to GLOC. So 7.8Gs is the max you can sustain. Really simplified system that is in desperate need of an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Tried out some Just Dogfight servers online (with G-model set to realistic) in the Viper. Well, it not realistic at all. I start blacking out when pushing above 7G. Can only sustain 9G for like a second, then I can't see anything. I doubt this is realistic and it makes the Viper useless in BFM. I've seen several videos of people sustaining 9 G for a lot longer than what DCS offers. Also, my father in law, being an ex fighter pilot in the Swedish Airforce also confirms this is not realistic at all. ED, please investigate and make the necessarry adjustments. The g-modeling includes warmups. Your father in law should be familiar with that concept. It's common to perform a few moderate g turns to ''warm up'' before engaging in BFM training/combat. This is also a recommendation in DCS, as it improves your g endurance. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0bl00i Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 When spawning in air against the ai, or an adversary there's really no time to perform a g warmup of you want to survive, the ai does not seem to be affected at all. In either way, it's way too harshly simulated, making high g capable planes like the f16 and f15 for example handicapped. Like alfas said above, it's not very fun or realistic to demand this of a sim pilot under the circumstances we play. Perhaps the goal should be to simulate a veteran pilot and not someone who haven't flown for months. But as usual when suggesting a change to DCS, it's negated and defended and ignored. The Viper and g tolerance in BMS feels a lot more manageable. I suggest you bring up for discussion. If I can't rate fight a Hornet because I'm blacking out constantly when pushing above 7g, it's not correctly modeled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will- Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I think if we are talking realistic vs dcs I think ur cherry picking just talking about g/blackout. What about head movements or control movement. Just seems strange u think just bc u blackout so easy dcs is wrong. It’s wrong on so many other g aspects as well. Intel i9-9900K 32GB DDR4, RTX 2080tiftw3, Windows 10, 1tb 970 M2, TM Warthog, 4k 144hz HDR g-sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurts Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 The whole reason for the reclined seat in the F-16 was G-tolerance. If the baseline in DCS is 7.8 then in the Viper it should be bumped to 8.8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banzaiib Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 The whole reason for the reclined seat in the F-16 was G-tolerance. If the baseline in DCS is 7.8 then in the Viper it should be bumped to 8.8. Mover and other SMEs on this topic have said that the G-limit is super low, regardless of air-frame. The reclined seat is a 2 edged sword, when you need to look behind you at 8g, you might not like it anymore... as many have complained. that aside, the g-limit / blackout is really low, but i've heard that g-warm-up might be a thing modeled in DCS. I'd like to know this definitively... as sometimes I can pull a lot more g than others... especially toward the end of a mission... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1Combat Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I think there should be a G tolerance hook based on how many flight hours your logbook pilot has since their last death. Boom. Done. Headed for the wishlist. Nvidia RTX3080 (HP Reverb), AMD 3800x Asus Prime X570P, 64GB G-Skill RipJaw 3600 Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals (Using VJoy and Gremlin to remap Throttle and Clutch into a Rudder axis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMoGas Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 There is G warm up in DCS and it does increase the tolerance slightly. However you stay "warmed" up for about 2 minutes before you need to do it again. I guess we should all be zig zagging through the air to keep the tolerance up. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fab Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 When spawning in air against the ai, or an adversary there's really no time to perform a g warmup of you want to survive, the ai does not seem to be affected at all. In either way, it's way too harshly simulated, making high g capable planes like the f16 and f15 for example handicapped. Like alfas said above, it's not very fun or realistic to demand this of a sim pilot under the circumstances we play. Perhaps the goal should be to simulate a veteran pilot and not someone who haven't flown for months. But as usual when suggesting a change to DCS, it's negated and defended and ignored. The Viper and g tolerance in BMS feels a lot more manageable. I suggest you bring up for discussion. If I can't rate fight a Hornet because I'm blacking out constantly when pushing above 7g, it's not correctly modeled. Cause your doing it wrong... Intel Core i7-6700K Cpu 4.00 GHz OC 4.8 GHz Water Cooled|32 GB DDR4 ram OC| Nvidia RTX 2080Ti| TrustMaster Warthog|Saitek Battle Pro Pedals | Logitec G13| Oculus Rift S :joystick: I´m in for a ride, a VR ride:pilotfly: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBX_-Hml7_7s1dggit_vGpA?view_as=public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torri Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 The G warmups only allow you to sustain 7.8Gs without blacking out, but don't increase peak G tolerance above this. I think now that we have an F-16 in the game, there really should be a revamp to the whole system. The current system does not allow fighting to the strengths of the Viper, and looking at online dogfight servers really expose this. The MiG-29 is also a "victim" of the current G-model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDetroit Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 An interesting article about this is Air Force Magizine. Many have probably already read this - but seems if you can't sustain 8G for several seconds before G-Lock in the F-16 this would seem very off. Basically it points out that today's pilot can sustain about 9G for about 1.5 seconds in the F-16, or similar "high agility" aircraft. I don't own the F-16 but can pull about 9G before G-Lock sets in the F-14B -seems about right. Anyhow, here is the link: https://www.airforcemag.com/article/1091glock/ Good day, DrDetroit Anyhow, an interesting read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torri Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I don't really see where that 1.5 seconds claim is in the article and I've never heard of that either. I could have overseen it though. But I'm pretty sure that F-16 pilots train to hold 9Gs for an extended period, 15-30 seconds? (Someone please correct me on this) There is no doubt that RL F-16 pilots are trained to withstand 9Gs for way longer than 1,5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDetroit Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I don't really see where that 1.5 seconds claim is in the article and I've never heard of that either. I could have overseen it though. But I'm pretty sure that F-16 pilots train to hold 9Gs for an extended period, 15-30 seconds? (Someone please correct me on this) There is no doubt that RL F-16 pilots are trained to withstand 9Gs for way longer than 1,5 seconds. Actually, my bad....it talks about g-limiters that limit pilot to about 9g IN 1.5 seconds...not FOR 1.5 seconds. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but 9G for 30 seconds seems waaay too long, but maybe you are correct. Seems would be more like 5-10 seconds at 9X gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkthunder Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Again...the myth about "g-warmup"... DCS is very unrealistic here, and there's no such thing as a g-warmup as it happens in DCS. The so called g-warmup doesn't increase g-tolerance. It's performed to check the g-suit is connected and working properly AND to check your general status and tolerance for the day. If you slept well and are in great shape, you can pull and sustain a lot of g immediately, it's not like if you did the warm-up you'd sustain more g. Conversley on a shitty day, your g-tolerance will be lower and no warm-up can make it better. To conclude, the warm-up is done to get a feeling for how many g you can safely pull but it doesn't magically boost your tolerance. Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCPanda Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 "You cannot sustain more Gs because you didn't do G warm up..." Well, G warm up doesn't really increase your G tolerance in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotenDead Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Yea, let's make realistic g tolerance. But please, don't forget tgat you won't be able to turn your head if you pull more than 5 Gs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torri Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 You can already move your head in unrealistic ways with TrackIR and VR, what's your point? I'd much rather that the game be unrealistic in that regard, than not being able to pull high Gs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Tried out some Just Dogfight servers online (with G-model set to realistic) in the Viper. Well, it not realistic at all. I start blacking out when pushing above 7G. Can only sustain 9G for like a second, then I can't see anything. I doubt this is realistic and it makes the Viper useless in BFM. I've seen several videos of people sustaining 9 G for a lot longer than what DCS offers. Also, my father in law, being an ex fighter pilot in the Swedish Airforce also confirms this is not realistic at all. ED, please investigate and make the necessarry adjustments. This was the first complaint I heard from a real-life Viper pilot when he tried out the DCS F-16 in VR. He was very impressed in most respects, but the gloc onset is a real problem. P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchRage Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 How about a compromise? Hold 9gs as long as you are looking within 30deg of center, then its a sliding scale.. by the time you are looking at your tail, gs are down to 6max before gloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 How about a compromise? Hold 9gs as long as you are looking within 30deg of center, then its a sliding scale.. by the time you are looking at your tail, gs are down to 6max before gloc Pilots are trained to position their head before they begin a high g turn, often to the side of the headrest where it is held in place until gs are unloaded! P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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