F-22 Official or F-35 and or Both Would be Nice

[Rdash007]

I noticed that there's a mod for the F-22 Raptor. What an amazing plane, However it's a third party mod and not everyone can and is technically inclined enough to go add files and create directories to enable it. Plus I hear it only works with Flaming Cliffs.

 

So I want to say I'm impressed with DCS so far. Lot's of praise and a good selection of aircraft. It would be great and I know people would pay for an official F-22 or F-35 made by DCS. Something you could purchase, download, and let the installation wizard install all the files where they belong and just fly the plane and have fun.

 

I'm not sure what the exact reasons are that it isn't available right now but I'm sure DCS could make a chunk of change if they released it. Just my thoughts, and BTW great game!

[Gladman]

The systems are classified, therefore no info is available to accurately model them. What your asking for is a decade out, at least.

[bies]

Noone will sell the license for the most modern fighters. Both F-22 and F-35 would have to be completely unrealistic, with guestimated avionics, intentionally deleted systems, castrated high AoA flight characteristic, completely changed RCS from different angles, made up many critical components etc. In short - Combat Ace 7.

 

Even Hornet, Viper or Warthog are changed in some areas not to reveal classified information.

 

You can make close to perfectly realistic planes untill about Desert Storm / dissolution of USSR.

Reasonably realistic to ~ 2005 like our Hornet, Viper etc.

And totally fictional post ~2005-2010.

Edited August 22, 2020 by bies

[Qiou87]

Not to mention DCS is not modeling ECM or stealth at the moment, and these new fancy planes rely heavily on that. I am not sure how superior to F15C the F22 would be in the game right now.

 

But yeah, we would all love the new shiny planes. It is just not possible to simulate them accurately due to lack of available information.

[Fri13]

Noone will sell the license for the most modern fighters. Both F-22 and F-35 would have to be completely unrealistic, with guestimated avionics, intentionally deleted systems, castrated high AoA flight characteristic, completely changed RCS from different angles, made up many critical components etc. In short - Combat Ace 7.

 

Actually F-35 has plenty of data that is available, not enough to get majority of the systems working, but a LOT has been revealed in all kind public events where journalists and almost anyone has had possibilities to step in the cockpit and fly it (it truly is super easy to fly, laughable really), record videos about its interfaces and systems etc. Then there is lots of public information about general flight capabilities and such.

 

Compare to F-22, the F-35 is a "open book". Where to even see something in F-22 is like "I can tell you, but then I need to kill you" -kind difference.

Like how many known photographs there even are from F-22 cockpit, or about its avionics and such?

That is the great difference where F-22 is not exported or even manufactured anymore, where F-35 is a multi-national program with lots of hands going through its data, requirements for public data etc, and eventually requirement to have major PR publicity campaign to sell it to others.

 

Regardless of all the data there is, it is likely just a 20-30% of what would be required to get it working even in "Combat Ace 7" level. But needed just to point out that those two are so different in the information access that it is wonder that F-35 is even having a "secret" -label today .

[CarbonFox]

If ED can't even do a Block I F/A-18E/F Super Hornet or 2010 spec F-16C, you're not going to see the Raptor or F-35.

[SkateZilla]

If ED can't even do a Block I F/A-18E/F Super Hornet or 2010 spec F-16C, you're not going to see the Raptor or F-35.

 

It's not that they cant, it's they chose not to.

 

 

 

Never the less, F-22A is still highly classified, F-35ABC are all Highly Classified, Journalists sitting in cockpits does not tell you the software code written to drive those systems.

[Evoman]

Yet again I have to bring this up which is why I wish this thread could be pinned to the top to avoid these unnecessary threads when people don't take the time to do their research. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=282413

 

 

Your question is answered in this interview after 22:20min

 

 

ED states in this interview that their trade mark is 100% realism.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Evoman

[SharpeXB]

Never the less, F-22A is still highly classified, F-35ABC are all Highly Classified, Journalists sitting in cockpits does not tell you the software code written to drive those systems.

I actually got to sit in an F-35 cockpit mockup at an event here at the Lockheed showroom. I didn’t know what I was looking at and I thought it looked “fake” because I didn’t know what glass cockpits were and of course they were all powered off so it just looked like blank panels. It was in the era before selfies, maybe in 2002. Oh darn what a good one that would have been :thumbup:

[draconus]

Not to mention DCS is not modeling ECM or stealth at the moment, and these new fancy planes rely heavily on that. I am not sure how superior to F15C the F22 would be in the game right now.

 

Well, RCS is taken into consideration in radar detection, same is IR signature. Take on the F-117 in DCS.

As for 15vs22 just to name a few: LPIR-AESA, supercruise, vectored thrust...

[SkateZilla]

Well, RCS is taken into consideration in radar detection, same is IR signature. Take on the F-117 in DCS.

As for 15vs22 just to name a few: LPIR-AESA, supercruise, vectored thrust...

 

it's just a general number for both IR and RCS, and not a true all aspect simulation.

[draconus]

it's just a general number for both IR and RCS, and not a true all aspect simulation.

I know it's simplified but even the target aspect changes radar detection range afaik - or is it by closure speed?

[bies]

It's not that they cant, it's they chose not to.

 

 

 

Never the less, F-22A is still highly classified, F-35ABC are all Highly Classified, Journalists sitting in cockpits does not tell you the software code written to drive those systems.

 

According to Matt Wagner in the interview - Boeing didn't agree to sell them the license to F/A-18E so it has nothing to do with their willingness to model it or not. (Considering Matt was working on Jane's F/A-18E there would be definitely a will to do it.)

 

Even more modern than Superhornet - you can answer by yourself.

Edited August 24, 2020 by bies

[AeriaGloria]

I know it's simplified but even the target aspect changes radar detection range afaik - or is it by closure speed?

 

They are all modifiers on the single base number from LUA.

[Qiou87]

As for 15vs22 just to name a few: LPIR-AESA, supercruise, vectored thrust...

 

We know why the real plane is better, but how would it show in DCS? AESA is not yet in the game. Vectored thrust would only get you so far with the current G-limits of the ingame pilot (look at people complaining about it already for the F-16C)... I'm just not sure the architecture around it (the game engine, the AI, etc.) is there already to support Gen5 aircraft in DCS. But of course, I can be wrong.

 

Even more modern than Superhornet - you can answer by yourself.

 

That's only for Boeing, both F-22 and F-35 are from Lockheed. We'd have to know how they react to this, which can be different from Boeing. Hell, we are seeing an EF2000 (still an active-service, mostly classified aircraft) developed by a third-party, so we shouldn't make too many assumptions about what is and isn't possible.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Qiou87

[probad]

Vectored thrust would only get you so far with the current G-limits of the ingame pilot (look at people complaining about it already for the F-16C)

tvc won't give you 9g's in the low speed post stall scenario where it comes into play

you're just throwing around words at this point

[Hawkeye_UK]

Oh dear...OP have a think about what your asking to be developed and the fact that ED's mission statement is to bring realistic simulations to the marketplace for the end consumer.

 

Your playing the wrong game if you want current military aircraft, also to note some of the third party mod aircraft are shocking, they have zero resemblance to how aircraft handle IRL, even popular ones that have gone to alot of effort, the flight model is poor, great for screenshots etc but yea leave alot to be desired beyond that.

[Hawkeye_UK]

We know why the real plane is better, but how would it show in DCS? AESA is not yet in the game. Vectored thrust would only get you so far with the current G-limits of the ingame pilot (look at people complaining about it already for the F-16C)... I'm just not sure the architecture around it (the game engine, the AI, etc.) is there already to support Gen5 aircraft in DCS. But of course, I can be wrong.

 

 

 

That's only for Boeing, both F-22 and F-35 are from Lockheed. We'd have to know how they react to this, which can be different from Boeing. Hell, we are seeing an EF2000 (still an active-service, mostly classified aircraft) developed by a third-party, so we shouldn't make too many assumptions about what is and isn't possible.

 

And there lies my largest concern about the Eurofighter coming to DCS. That said what we get in DCS is the simulated flight model, the core of the systems and the capability will not be released especially regarding Radar capability / target recognition and ECM. If DCS does go down the lets make aircraft up without any source documentation it starts becoming pointless - might as well go fly war thunder.

[Rdash007]

I'm surprised the F-22 is still classified to be honest. The F-35 I understand. It would just be fun.

[CarbonFox]

According to Matt Wagner in the interview - Boeing didn't agree to sell them the license to F/A-18E so it has nothing to do with their willingness to model it or not. (Considering Matt was working on Jane's F/A-18E there would be definitely a will to do it.)

 

Even more modern than Superhornet - you can answer by yourself.

 

 

I'd imagine Boeing not being willing to sell the license has much to do with the current geopolitical climate.

[Hawkeye_UK]

I'm surprised the F-22 is still classified to be honest. The F-35 I understand. It would just be fun.

 

Not sure why your surprised, its more capable than the F35 in some regards when it comes to Stealth and its for that reason the US will not export it.

[Evoman]

Not sure why your surprised, its more capable than the F35 in some regards when it comes to Stealth and its for that reason the US will not export it.

 

 

Yup, Japan had been interested in acquiring some F-22 but the US would not allow it. Read more about in this article.

 

 

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4321/just-allow-the-f-22-to-be-exported-to-japan-already

 

 

Here is another interesting article.

 

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/23284/lockheed-pitching-u-s-air-force-on-f-22-f-35-hybrid-fighter-intended-for-japan

Edited August 26, 2020 by Evoman