The case for Cessnas

[barcharcraz]

After buying *yet another* terrible GA cessna for x-plane, I thought, you know, it would be cool to have more "GA" in DCS. Especially the GA planes that are in service with various militaries and have been converted to carry weapons.

 

 

For example

* AC-208 - A cessna 208 caravan with added sensors and hardpoints for hellfire missiles. Used by the Iraqi air force. Apperently Mali, Mauritania, Niger and Burkina Faso are also interested in the AC-208. This could be a ton of fun in campaigns/missions that simulate the cost of our operations, and for asymmetric conflicts or conflicts in the earlier stages of escalation.

 

 

 

* OT-47B Recon aircraft based on the Cessna Citation V, with the F-16s FCR and the WF-360TL imaging system. I can't find much info on the imaging system though.

 

 

* T-41 - trainer version of the 172, would be a good first module for a GA developer wanting to get into DCS, and familiarize themselves with the DCS code-base while working on a plane that they probably already have first hand (IRL flight time) experience with. Would also be an opportunity to put other sims to shame and make me even more depressed when I need to pay $65/hr to play prepar3d at my local FBO.

 

 

* C336 Skymaster / C337 Super Skymaster - there have been various military versions of these made, the FTB337 seems to be the one with hardpoints. It's a neat aircraft because of it's pusher/puller counter-rotating propellers.

[SharpeXB]

Maybe you haven’t seen the competition in civilian aircraft sims? No way DCS should get into trying to play in that league. Keep this firmly focused on being a combat simulation.

[RuskyV]

And yet we have a civi version of the Huey that has some great non combat missions that are enjoyed by many people. I for one have no problem in having civilian planes in DCS as it’s a great platform for story driven missions, something that "other flight sims don’t seem to have".

[draconus]

For someone who cares mostly for the best flight model possible the competition does not look that bright and remember we already have CEII which has 0 to do with military.

[dawgie79]

Agreed, draconus. DCS has the best flightmodels of them all.

 

An AC-208 would be cool!

 

Specifications:

Features

Orbital ATK’s proven mission system

High definition cockpit / cabin monitors

Integrated fire control system

High definition EO/IR sensors with integrated laser designator

Reconfigurable weapons configuration

Dual Rail HELLFIRE Missiles (AGM-114); two missiles per wing

2.75″ Rocket Pods (APKWS, GATR or other guided rockets); one pod per wing

Missile warning and countermeasures system for a full range of threats

Ballistic panels for cockpit and mission systems compartment protection

Datalinks provide Line-of-sight (LOS) and Beyond-Line-of-Sight (BLOS) audio and visual communications

Flight data recorder / cockpit voice recorder

 

Performance

 

Cruise speed: 214 mph; 186 kn (344 km/h) true air speed

Stall speed: 70 mph; 61 kn (113 km/h) calibrated air speed

Range: 1,232 mi; 1,070 nmi (1,982 km)

Service ceiling: 25,000 ft (7,600 m)

Rate of climb: 1,234 ft/min (6.27 m/s)

Wing loading: 28.674 lb/sq ft (140.00 kg/m2)

Edited August 27, 2020 by dawgie79

[reece146]

I fly the Yak-52...

 

a lot...

 

like, really.. a lot.

 

It's a "civilian" plane and a hell of a lot more interesting and fun than a 152 IMO.

 

So, one could do that.

 

I also have the CE2 but I like the seating position and general aircraft design/layout/utility better in the Yak and rarely fly it. When I get the WWI itch I load up the Normandy map with some WWI skins on the CE2 just for shiggles.

 

I downloaded the Edge 540 but haven't even tried it yet.

 

I also have the i-16 which I think might have been used as a post war civilian sport plane... or did I dream that on Google? I need to put some time into the I-16 but I've been having so much fun with the Yak-52 when I'm not flying the warbirds or the F-18.

 

I use the TF51 a fair amount but it's not a good platform for bush plane flying and trying to land on the side of a mountain. Yak all the way for that. Also, when I want to fly the Mustang it tends to be to go dog-fighting. That said, been touring the Syria map in the TF51 (and L-39) and it's a good balance of speed and range for exploring a new map at lower levels.

 

I would like to see more civilian aircraft. Bush planes like Super Cubs and Beavers and stuff like that would be great - both wheeled and on floats. A Falco F8L would be great... Razbam is working on the Tucano. Was the Pucara ever used as a civilian airplane? Grumman Goose? Fieseler Storch?

 

I have Xplane - never use it because the Yak-52 in DCS is the plane I prefer when I want to just do flying for flying sake.

 

A case can be made for using the L-39C as a civilian airplane also. When I 'feel the need for speed' tend to gravitate to the F-18 though. No regrets buying it - just don't use it that often.

 

Also, there's the Huey and Mi-8. Need to get a proper collective stick...

 

As someone else said above - DCS has something that the other sims don't have: a very rich mission editor and can drive and improve an experience with an aircraft. The other sims are really quite limited in comparison I think.

 

I've been 'backfilling' all the airfields and airstrips not in DCS on the Caucasus map to have more fun/range with the aircraft and to do longer exploring missions.

 

I need to turn attention to the NS430 also to get "standard" civilian style naviagtion going. The ADF system in the Yak is kind of annoying since you have to exit the mission in order to change the tuning. Kind of a pita when you just want to drop on a airstrip and gas-n-go.

 

So, there's lots of ways to have fun in DCS as a GA sim. There's a decent amount of equipment and the flight dynamics are top notch.

 

 

$0.02

[Baco]

Yeap, Like Draconus said, best FM in the market so whay is it so threatenign to some that a few of us want some civie transport, liason, and or cargo Plane in the sim too...

 

Cesna is fine and dandy althow I would kill for a AN 2 ;)

[reece146]

AN-2 would rock.

[QuiGon]

I don't need playable GA aircraft in DCS. One or two AI airliners or cessnas would be nice to have for interesting mission design, but that's it.

 

COIN aircraft, as listed above, are military aircraft and not GA aircraft anymore and hence would fit well into DCS.

Edited August 28, 2020 by QuiGon

[Livers]

L-19/O-1 would work for Korea/Vietnam conflicts. I'd buy it.

[Willie Nelson]

I thing there is a case for a military turboprop trainer like the T6 Texan or Pilates PC-9. The Yak is not a modern military trainer and the jets are neither modern nor ideal for training.

 

A turboprop with a reasonable ground speed would be perfect for practicing navigation, IFR and formation training.

 

Additionally, the complexity of such a model would be simple for the developer.

[Northstar98]

Maybe you haven’t seen the competition in civilian aircraft sims? No way DCS should get into trying to play in that league. Keep this firmly focused on being a combat simulation.

 

Well that was quick with the acronym zealotry again...

 

Somebody hide the Yak-52, CE2, TF-51D and C-101EB before anybody notices.

 

For someone who cares mostly for the best flight model possible the competition does not look that bright and remember we already have CEII which has 0 to do with military.

 

Absolutely this.

 

One of the things those competitors don't do so well on Sharpe, is actually simulating flight, in a flight simulator.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Northstar98

[SharpeXB]

Well that was quick with the acronym zealotry again...

The absolute worst module anyone could make, given the current flight sim lineup, would be yet another Cessna for any fight sim besides... that other one. Where it’s already done very well and in an environment that ED can’t compete with. Sorry but nobody can.

DCS is differentiated enough in this market by focusing on combat simulation which it’s competitor doesn’t do. Trying to compete in the civilian flight sim market against the behemoth would just be foolish. Go ahead, convince some third party to waste their time on this... :doh:

[Evoman]

I think there is very much a case for military Cessna variants like the O-2 Skymaster. It was used in Vietnam as a forward air controller to find and direct the fighter jets and battle ships to a target.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SharpeXB]

I think there is very much a case for military Cessna variants like the O-2 Skymaster.

You should do a kickstarter... if there’s really “very much a case”...

[Evoman]

You should do a kickstarter... if there’s really “very much a case”...

 

 

 

 

Well it actually has less to do with money and more to do with getting a group of talented people that can become a 3rd party and be trusted enough with being awarded a license to acquire the necessary data to do a high fidelity simulation.

 

 

Keep in mind that the Bell OH-58 Kiowa which did pretty much the same job as the O-2 Skymaster hardly had much people asking for it before. All it took to bring it to DCS was a group of talented and knowledgeable people to have the determination to set themselves up and acquire a license do it as a passion project.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Evoman

[SharpeXB]

Well it actually has less to do with money and more to do with getting a group of talented people that can become a 3rd party and be trusted enough with being awarded a license to acquire the necessary data to do a high fidelity simulation.

They’re welcome to try. I doubt it would sell very well here.

[Exorcet]

I'm definitely still waiting for more civil aircraft in DCS. When it comes to flight models, DCS is among the best, not to mention the benefit of having combat and civil aircraft in the same simulator.

[SharpeXB]

Putting civil aircraft in DCS would be completely foolish given the competition.

It’s even more important now than ever that DCS remains focused on combat simulation.

The realm of civil flight simulation just got dominated by a single product that nobody else has the resources to compete with.

[norbot]

An OV-10 would have been great: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=229899&highlight=ov-10+bronco

 

 

Sadly I didn't hear anything new about it since ages. :cry:

[reece146]

An OV-10 would have been great: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=229899&highlight=ov-10+bronco

 

 

Sadly I didn't hear anything new about it since ages. :cry:

 

 

Yeah, I was hoping to see it come to DCS but I guess it's a pet project of one of the devs at Razbam so not something with a schedule or sprint cycle.

 

 

It would be a great place to have. I'm also looking forward to the Tucano and Pucara from Razbam.

[Evoman]

Putting civil aircraft in DCS would be completely foolish given the competition.

It’s even more important now than ever that DCS remains focused on combat simulation.

The realm of civil flight simulation just got dominated by a single product that nobody else has the resources to compete with.

 

 

While I do agree that plain Jane civil aircraft would be pointless in DCS as they would be useless in a combat simulator. However there are several Military variants that would be useful in DCS. This thread had originally started off discussing said aircraft.

One perfect example is the Air tractor Archangel based on the crop duster variant.

 

 

 

[SharpeXB]

One perfect example is the Air tractor Archangel based on the crop duster variant.

Seriously? :doh:

[Northstar98]

The absolute worst module anyone could make, given the current flight sim lineup, would be yet another Cessna for any fight sim besides... that other one.

 

So that's why it keeps getting asked for :doh:

 

Where it’s already done very well and in an environment that ED can’t compete with. Sorry but nobody can.

 

So why did ED make an F-16 then?

 

DCS is differentiated enough in this market by focusing on combat simulation which it’s competitor doesn’t do. Trying to compete in the civilian flight sim market against the behemoth would just be foolish. Go ahead, convince some third party to waste their time on this... :doh:

 

Again, somebody hide the TF-51D, CEII, Yak-52 and C-101EB before anyone notices.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Northstar98

[SharpeXB]

So that's why it keeps getting asked for :doh:

Not everything somebody asks for in this section is a good idea.

 

So why did ED make an F-16 then?

Because an F-16 belongs in Digital Combat Simulator

 

 

Again, somebody hide the TF-51D, CEII, Yak-52 and C-101EB before anyone notices.

I’m sure the CEII was a giant waste of $ to make. Not every aircraft belongs in DCSW. Because this is an air combat simulation. The Yak-52 was made with a commercial/military use. The TF-51 was an easy offshoot of the P-51D to provide a free aircraft.

Hey any third party Dev is welcome to make boring unsuitable modules and fail at them. Or maybe ED requires a certain level of suitability for DSCW in fact I know they do. 3rd P Devs aren’t free to just fill up DCSW with silly aircraft.