AV-8B, A-10C or F/A-18C Hornet. Which one to pick?

[Mr.Scar]

Hi all,

 

I am a returning DCS pilot after basically 2 years of absence, and its going to be another of those topics "Which aircraft to choose?" I need help on which aircraft to focus on, since most of my time in DCS i was hopping around aircraft. Tried a bit of everything, but did not go in-depth in any of those. This time i would like to choose one particular, learn it, and master it. I did a lot of reading, mainly changelogs and forum posts but some of them are outdated and I hope you will help me out with current information about the modules in case i have missed something.

 

Now a bit about me. My plan is to go thorugh Chuck`s guide, do the training missions and then apply what i learned in single player missions or better, campaigns. I am not into multiplayer. I would like to, but unfortunately real life and my time schedule hardly allows me to do it, and what is more, id like to learn the aircraft first and then maybe, when the time allows, jump into multiplayer, buddy up with someone and do missions together.

 

Now that you have a picture of me, as a pilot i will hop in to the modules of my interest below. Before i start describing i will mention a few additional points about me.

 

1. I seem to have a better feel for being CAS and general ground engagement focused pilot. I like blowing stuff up, because I got a feeling it is something that really makes a difference. And i think i simply like to bring the pain train with heavy payloads

2. I am not bad at dogfighting, but i feel that mud moving is more my thing, than soaring high above the sky and picking of targets with amraams.

3. I love helicopters, and will tell you more about this further in an honorable mention, but truth is if DCS had a AH-64D, i would definitely fly and master it.

4. I prefer Western aircraft and helicopters

5. I do not mind a long learning process, this is my aim, to learn, to become very familiar with a plane before I decide to hop into another one.

 

Now about the modules mentioned in the topic title that are in my scope and what i have read about them. Please bare with me on this one, and if you can provide me with info on the current state, or other things i might have missed.

 

1. AV-8B Harrier

 

I have only around 10-15 hours in it, but those are my impressions and the information i managed to dig up.

 

Pros:

- Very fast and agile, handles very well even with heavy loadouts

- Very nice payloads and limited but still, SEAD capable

- Vtol feels like flying a chopper but more difficult

- It looks like a strong and fast Bulldog to me and sure feels that way when I fly it

- Tools for night flying are absolutely fantastic

- Feels very unique, cant tell in which way, but it does.

- Great tutorial that forces me to apply the knowledge from previous training sessions

- Flexible options when it comes to operating from different places. FARP, Tarawa, airports etc.

 

Cons:

- Limited SEAD capability

- No official campaigns and missions, and honestly I am shit at the mission planner and I am a bit reluctant to try out the unofficial ones. So this is a big let down for me.

- From what i read, the development and implementation by RAZBAM are very lacking, and there are still bugs that are like 2 years old. I might be mistaken on this one however and my info might be outdated.

- The Harrier seems to be a craft that puts a lot of workload on the pilot. Remembering about switches, nozzle settings, calculation of plane weight in order to perform a successful takeoff/landing, customizing the plane systems depending on the situation you are in etc. and more. This is a lot to digest, and I am not that comfortable with that.

- A2A refueling gives me a headache on this one...

 

2. A-10C

 

I have little hours on this one, so the impressions might not be accurate.

 

Pros:

- Very polished module and I heard that the Hog is getting an upgrade to a newer version

- The loadout options...

- A lot of campaigns, missions and tutorial information that are done like real pilots do it

- Can really deliver a lot of pain to the ground

- Good handling

- Very long loiter times

- Very complex (just going to the instructions makes my mind explode, what you can do with it)but rewarding in the end, providing ample learning opportunities

- Great for coop

- BRRRTTTT....

 

Cons:

- Very slow

- No SEAD capability at all, aside from sneaky style maverick AA busting.

- Dependent on Air cover in order to get to an AO

 

3. F/A-18C Hornet

 

I got the most experience with this one, however my carrier landings, A2A refueling and dogfighting skills need much improvment. I also have the Supercarrier module here.

 

Pros:

- A lot of updated stuff, reading through the changelogs after 2 years gave me goosebumps

- Easy to fly, pliot workload is not that heavy

- Can basically do everything the Harrier and the Hog can do + strong SEAD and A2A

- Tons of campaigns and missions (I see you Raven one...)

- Good learning curve

 

Cons:

 

- I do not know if this plane has any. Only con i can think about is that its a jack of all trades and master of none, but it is also a balanced pros. I always have however that feeling that the payload was a bit lackluster or I could have made more damage in a more efficient way. But i might be doing something wrong and the only thing bad about this plane is me as a pilot in it because:

 

* I suck at carrier landigs and trimming the aircraft, plus i have strong trouble to feel the lagging throttle even after long hours i did before my pause. Doing the overhead break CASE I recovery is still a pain for me.

* A2A refueling is black magic for me

 

4. KA-50 Black Shark (honorable mention)

 

I love this heli, although i prefer western aircraft. Have quite a bit of hours in it, but still a lot to master. What i dont like about it is the lackluster night-ops package. Tinkering with SKHVAL to adjust the brightness or using flares to light a target to destroy, is a let down for me unfortunately. And VIKHRS are well... not Hellfires.

 

 

Summary:

 

Now that you have an overview of everything, my question to you is: What would you recommend me to focus on and master? Back in 2018 I did a lot of flying in the F-18 and it was my plane of choice for many days, but I am not sure that I am that good ad A2A and Carrier Ops, even after hours of practice.

 

Or maybe you would recommend something else? This is the list of modules (aside the ones mentioned above) i currently have:

 

1. Viggen

2. Mirage

3. FC3

4. F-14 Tomcat

5. F-16

 

 

Thank you for reading this, your time, and thank you for any advice you can give me.

 

Fly safe.

[SmirkingGerbil]

A-10C, A-10C II

 

I have a bit of time in the F/A-18C, and it is a wonderful aircraft capable of all the things you mention, but two things kept me coming back to the A-10C

 

1.) Loiter - nothing else comes close, except maybe a helo, but even then they can't egress as quick to come back for more.

2.) Ability to absorb damage. The F/A-18 takes any damage, you are done. If you even survive. A-10C will get you home, and that is half the fun!

 

Honorable mentions.

 

1.) Brrrrrrrrrt. Even after you bomb truck everything you have, you can always Brrrrrrtt more.

2.) With the A-10C II you are getting some pretty advanced avionics upgrades similar to fastie capabilities, and better night fighting capability.

 

My 2 cents.

[conura]

Also very interested in this. I love the harrier IRL, grew up with books on it. But is the Razdam implementation bad?

[Mr.Scar]

A-10C, A-10C II

 

I have a bit of time in the F/A-18C, and it is a wonderful aircraft capable of all the things you mention, but two things kept me coming back to the A-10C

 

1.) Loiter - nothing else comes close, except maybe a helo, but even then they can't egress as quick to come back for more.

2.) Ability to absorb damage. The F/A-18 takes any damage, you are done. If you even survive. A-10C will get you home, and that is half the fun!

 

Honorable mentions.

 

1.) Brrrrrrrrrt. Even after you bomb truck everything you have, you can always Brrrrrrtt more.

2.) With the A-10C II you are getting some pretty advanced avionics upgrades similar to fastie capabilities, and better night fighting capability.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Many thanks for the quick reply. A question, will the A-10C as we have it now, be upgraded to the A-10C II or will it be a totally new module? Just occured to me i have not seen any info about this.

[sirrah]

Will be a new module. Price has not yet been revealed (neither has a potential discount for current A-10C owners)

 

 

Fwiw on your OP, my vote goes out to the Hornet. At the moment it is by far the most versatile multi role aircraft available in DCS. (well.. ok, it can't hover...)

 

 

EDIT:

Oh and in case you fly VR (which you should!), the Hornet has a pilot body :thumbup:

Edited August 27, 2020 by sirrah

[Mr.Scar]

Thanks for the reply :)

 

Yeah, seems that it starting to become a choice between the Hornet or A-10C, especially if A-10C II is coming. But i will see also if anyone else can say something.

 

I would probably consider the Harrier too, but after I would learn it, there would not be that much to do. That is of course if the development state is really that slow and there are no dedicated official campaigns.

 

I simply don`t want to wake up one day and have very little options to fly this bird.

[flameoutme]

I know this wasn't on your list - but check out the M-2000.

 

You can set it in preferences to use an english cockpit.

 

It's complex enough to be modern, and straightforward enough to be learnable with just a little time.

 

I own the F/A-18 and although its extremely capable, it's the Microsoft Word of jets. 18,000 options and choices which will take a while to learn.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Mars Exulte]

Also very interested in this. I love the harrier IRL, grew up with books on it. But is the Razdam implementation bad?

 

The complaining about it is grossly exaggerated, a lot of the worst bugs have been rectified over the last year or so, and a lot of the missing nav functions etc have been added. I have 50-60 hours in it and became proficient with most the weapons and systems. It depends on what you're interested in, though, everything I messed with seemed to work fine, although I'm sure there are people out there trying to use some tertiary system pulling their neckbeards because it's not working or non-functional. Like people who whinge about BIT tests.

 

A lot of the folks griping about it decided to rag on it years ago, and just do so out of habit now.

[BuzzU]

You enjoy CAS the most. That says A-10C everytime. You don't like carrier ops and refueling. That says A-10C again.

 

Become the best Hog pilot you can and help the ground troups stay alive. It's very rewarding.

 

 

btw........The A-10C II has it's own forum.

[dawgie79]

Hornet, because of carrier ops. Just adds an extra dimension to it.

[BuzzU]

Hornet, because of carrier ops. Just adds an extra dimension to it.

 

 

I agree but the OP doesn't seem to like doing them.

[dawgie79]

I agree but the OP doesn't seem to like doing them.

 

True, but he also said he already owns the Supercarrier. Carrier Ops require training as much as CAS in the Warthog does. ;)

[BuzzU]

It's his decision. I think he'll be happier in the Hog but the Hornet is more fun to fly. It's my choice. The Hornet is more complex than the Hog and i'm not sure that's what he wants.

 

Both are good choices.

[Mr.Scar]

The complaining about it is grossly exaggerated, a lot of the worst bugs have been rectified over the last year or so, and a lot of the missing nav functions etc have been added. I have 50-60 hours in it and became proficient with most the weapons and systems. It depends on what you're interested in, though, everything I messed with seemed to work fine, although I'm sure there are people out there trying to use some tertiary system pulling their neckbeards because it's not working or non-functional. Like people who whinge about BIT tests.

 

A lot of the folks griping about it decided to rag on it years ago, and just do so out of habit now.

 

Thank you for info about that. Makes me feel more comfortable now that i know it.

 

As for the rest

 

1. I like carrier ops in the Hornet, however i seem to have a harder time in mastering them, and such a need for more practice. It simply takes me very long to master even the CASE I recovery. I was training on airfields and pretending that some portion of it is a carrier deck, and then I moved to the carrier landing with the whole procedure of overhead break, going into the groove etc. was doing this for two weeks, 2-3h daily, just practicing the landings. And i still had problems although i know the theory. So now you have the idea that i seem to very slowly learn how to put the Hornet down and hit that 3rd wire.

 

Speaking of Carrier Ops, are Harrier landings on the Tarawa harder than the ones done by the Hornet on the Stennis? I have not tried yet to land the Harrier on a carrier, and have not done much VTOL so far.

 

I am asking, because this might also be a decisive factor for me when choosing the aircraft in the end. If i have trouble with the Hornet, and Harrier landings are even more difficult, then I at least know that the Harrier is a no go for me. At least not now.

 

2. The Hog. Thanks for the feedback, there are some really good comments and make the Hog really interesting for me.

 

As for the Mirage, i like it very much, but it I am looking for something with better CAS capability. So Ill pass this time on it.

 

So far i still have to make a decision between Hornet/Warthog/Harrier, but judging from the content (campaigns, missions) that are available for the Hornet and the Hog it will probably be one of them i choose.

 

Question is, should i re-learn the Hornet and give him a shot again, or start the process of learning the Hog...

 

Damn, this is thougher than i expected...

[notproplayer3]

The hog is really good too and there are currently much more things working in the hog than in the f/a-18.

I personally enjoy both very much, the f/a-18 has the carrier landing capability.

The hog has a MWS system for IR missiles and more payload capacity (I think).

The hog is also in my opinion a better and more fun CAS aircraft, mainly due to the 30mm cannon that can even take out tanks and it's slow speed that gives you "more precision". I also really enjoy the rugedness of that aircraft, you can take a lot of shots and still be flying while the fa-18 is basically dead in one shot.

The fa-18 has of course A/A capability and more standoff weapons.

Idk what to say, both are really good, if you want to do CAS or ground attack go with the A10c.

If you want everything else that it doesn't have, go with the fa18c.

 

The harrier is cool but it indeed has bugs and I feel like I had a rougher experience than the other two because of the implementation.

Edited August 27, 2020 by notproplayer3

[SmirkingGerbil]

Many thanks for the quick reply. A question, will the A-10C as we have it now, be upgraded to the A-10C II or will it be a totally new module? Just occured to me i have not seen any info about this.

 

Dedicated A-10C II forum - https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=765

 

 

New module, original maintained, new module with the extra capabilities. So far everything in the A-10C II thread indicates ED plans on maintaining the original.

[Mr.Scar]

Dedicated A-10C II forum - https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=765

 

 

New module, original maintained, new module with the extra capabilities. So far everything in the A-10C II thread indicates ED plans on maintaining the original.

 

Thanks! Ill be sure to check it out.

[BuzzU]

I had the same decision a while back and to be honest i'm not so sure picking the Hornet over the Hog is the right one for me. I'm an old guy and the slower pace of the Hog is appealing. At the end of a long mission when my body and brain are tired. It's a joy landing the Hog compared to landing the Hornet on the boat.

 

Plus, as was said. The Hornet can't take any damage and that can get annoying. I love how tough the Hog is. This thread has been good for me. It's making me realize I made the wrong choice.

 

It's going to be the Hog from now on and can now look forward to the A-10C II. :)

 

Where's Buzz?

 

Flying the Hog. Where else would he be?

[Mr.Scar]

I had the same decision a while back and to be honest i'm not so sure picking the Hornet over the Hog is the right one for me. I'm an old guy and the slower pace of the Hog is appealing. At the end of a long mission when my body and brain are tired. It's a joy landing the Hog compared to landing the Hornet on the boat.

 

Plus, as was said. The Hornet can't take any damage and that can get annoying. I love how tough the Hog is. This thread has been good for me. It's making me realize I made the wrong choice.

 

It's going to be the Hog from now on and can now look forward to the A-10C II. :)

 

Where's Buzz?

 

Flying the Hog. Where else would he be?

 

Hehe, well I am not a youngster anymore either. Good to see this topic helped you.

 

As for me, yeah... now that what you wrote i think I always prefered resilience and endurance. Because what i forgot to mention, is that i like to take it slow but sure. And the A-10C seems to be built for that.

 

There is of course no stopping me from checking out other aircraft, but I think it is the Hog for me too.

[Hawkeye_UK]

The complaining about it is grossly exaggerated, a lot of the worst bugs have been rectified over the last year or so, and a lot of the missing nav functions etc have been added. I have 50-60 hours in it and became proficient with most the weapons and systems. It depends on what you're interested in, though, everything I messed with seemed to work fine, although I'm sure there are people out there trying to use some tertiary system pulling their neckbeards because it's not working or non-functional. Like people who whinge about BIT tests.

 

A lot of the folks griping about it decided to rag on it years ago, and just do so out of habit now.

 

50-60 hours is that even enough time to cover the training missions, just perhaps? What it does quantify (no offence intended) from what you have stated is that you have little experience in the Harrier over the last 3 years to quantify.

 

To those that have logged over 20 times your flying hours in her the frustrating bugs are still there, some now dating 30 months since being reported with Razbam basically all but ignoring the forums. Have a read on the Harrier forum.

 

Yes superficially the Harrier is great fun, and i enjoy her, but for first time, first strike pass there are many annoying bugs that in a competitive pvp environment can be very costly, aka forcing re attack and the inevitable loss of aircraft in game.

 

OK so back to the OP's post......

 

In terms of module choice if your new again to flight sims after your break and guess never got into it properly (?) then the A10c is also a nice slow bird to fly and learn some virtual airmanship. Even if you have bought the other modules i'd recommend going back to basics and this thing loves to blow stuff up as per your requirements. The Hotas systems is still the best modelled in game and if you want to fly CAS or A2G then nothing can touch it. I'd also recommend it if you want to learn a module in SP as there is many good campaigns (enemy within, ranger now free i believe plus the ED tac training modules). It will also serve you well as will force you to learn about Sensor Point of Interest and Sensor of Interest, along with common things such as CMS measures and how to employ them, flying and hunting by RWR, a skill often missed by those that just jump straight into the 18 or 16 and fly from SA. Its also the most polished of any module and has recently just had a cockpit upgrade so its up there graphics wise with the latest releases from ED. I cannot recommend the module enough because it will, as a matter of becoming proficient in it teach you what the various ground units looks like, a must if you end up on hardcore multiplayer servers such as DDCS. It will also teach you the various type of weapons systems and how to properly employ them along with TPOD employment, all of which are skills you can transfer well into the F18/F16 at a later date.

 

So yes if starting out go with A10c, yes it has a learning curve, but its all things that you will need to learn at some point anyway. Also for flight model and learning do not overlook the L39/C101 they are excellent also, albeit limited to dumb bombs/rockets with those.

 

Lastly maps, you don't mention them, obviously you get Caucasus free, however Syria the new one is absolutely the best map by far, then PG, then Nevada. Normandy is now good and also Channel (small) however these are mainly used for WW2 and warbirds. As a side note, i like the Nevada map and again if intending to play offline then there are many campaign modules that will need the Nevada map as they train there (as per real world). I still use Nevada personally as its a great looking map and fly there when new modules come out for testing purposes.

 

Hope this helped.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Hawkeye_UK

[Mr.Scar]

50-60 hours is that even enough time to cover the training missions, just perhaps? What it does quantify (no offence intended) from what you have stated is that you have little experience in the Harrier over the last 3 years to quantify.

 

To those that have logged over 20 times your flying hours in her the frustrating bugs are still there, some now dating 30 months since being reported with Razbam basically all but ignoring the forums. Have a read on the Harrier forum.

 

Yes superficially the Harrier is great fun, and i enjoy her, but for first time, first strike pass there are many annoying bugs that in a competitive pvp environment can be very costly, aka forcing re attack and the inevitable loss of aircraft in game.

 

OK so back to the OP's post......

 

In terms of module choice if your new to flight sims then the A10c is also a nice slow bird to fly and learn some virtual airmanship. The Hotas systems is still the best modelled in game and if you want to fly CAS or A2G then nothing can touch it. I'd also recommend it if you want to learn a module in SP as there is many good campaigns (enemy within, ranger now free i believe plus the ED tac training modules). It will also serve you well as will force you to learn about Sensor Point of Interest and Sensor of Interest, along with common things such as CMS measures and how to employ them, flying and hunting by RWR, a skill often missed by those that just jump straight into the 18 or 16 and fly from SA. Its also the most polished of any module and has recently just had a cockpit upgrade so its up there graphics wise with the latest releases from ED. I cannot recommend the module enough because it will, as a matter of becoming proficient in it teach you what the various ground units looks like, a must if you end up on hardcore multiplayer servers such as DDCS. It will also teach you the various type of weapons systems and how to properly employ them along with TPOD employment, all of which are skills you can transfer well into the F18/F16 at a later date.

 

So yes if starting out go with A10c, yes it has a learning curve, but its all things that you will need to learn at some point anyway. Also for flight model and learning do not overlook the L39/C101 they are excellent also, albeit limited to dumb bombs/rockets with those.

 

Lastly maps, you don't mention them, obviously you get Caucasus free, however Syria the new one is absolutely the best map by far, then PG, then Nevada. Normandy is now good and also Channel (small) however these are mainly used for WW2 and warbirds. As a side note, i like the Nevada map and again if intending to play offline then there are many campaign modules that will need the Nevada map as they train there (as per real world). I still use Nevada personally as its a great looking map and fly there when new modules come out for testing purposes.

 

Hope this helped.

 

I made my decision already, but what you wrote makes much sense and only reinforced me in the opinion, that choosing the Hog was a good move. So thank you very much friend. And cant wait now for A-10C II...

 

As for Syria, yeah i got it and Nevada :) Syria is absolutely gorgeousl and interesting.

 

As for the original thing with the Harrier... you speak sense again, I had this feeling too after reading through posts on different sources. Now dont get me wrong, i love the Harrier and it would be possible that I would choose it instead of the Hog since it would provide a similar expirience with CAS, however the lack of campaign and when I hear about the bugs etc. well it scared me off a bit.

 

But anyway thank you for your help, now it is the time to take a careful read of Chucks guide, do the training lessons. Step by step i will make it.

[BuzzU]

Of course Chucks Guides are great but don't pass up reading the manual the Hog comes with. It's great too.

[Mr.Scar]

Will do:thumbup:

[BuzzU]

I don't know what controller you use? The TM Warthog is a good choice in the Hog. It's made for it and comes all programmed for the A-10C.

[Mr.Scar]

I am using the TM T16000M FCS HOTAS, and have downloaded this profile

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/2829162/

 

Seems to work for me for now.

 

I dream about the Warthog stick, but unfortunately cannot afford it now.