AV-8B, A-10C or F/A-18C Hornet. Which one to pick?

[DmitriKozlowsky]

AV-8B will challenge your flying skills, especially in VSTOL.

F/A-18C will challenge you both in flying skills and systems management, including weapons.

A-10C has both, but is easier to learn and more forgiving.

All three will challenge you on your stick&rudder for in-flight refueling. AV-8B inflight refueling is the most difficult task in DCS.

 

If you wish a starter hi-fidelity module. Look no further then F-5E. Then Mirage2000-C.

With either one or both mastered, you are ready to tackle F/A-18C or AV-8B.

[Mr.Scar]

Don't feel bad. I've been thinking about this for quite a while.

 

 

We all have our decisions to make, but I am glad this topic helped you as much as it helped me. And also thank you for your insight Buzz, it was invaluable.

 

As for what Dimitri wrote, I agree with you 100% but I have choosen the Hog. Im old and I like to take it slow but sure. I also love the Hogs resilience, weapons and loiter time.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Mr.Scar

[eliasr]

A10C or F16

[exhausted]

AV-8BNA

 

Let's see, I have all three and I can say the AV-8B NA is the best module.

 

- In terms of completeness, it sits between the polished A-10C and the developing FA-18C.

- In terms of attack, it is more capable than both the A-10C and the FA-18C.

- This is the best aircraft for night ops; the night vision hud and the Litening pod turn the night into your domain

- The weapons are fantastic, and you will be able to strike targets with great accuracy

- Harrier is much easier to learn than the A-10C and the FA-18C; the FA-18C needs constant monitoring but the Harrier lets you get right to business

- It is more deployable than both, so you can get around fast to places the other fixed wing aircraft will have to wait and plan for.

 

Cons: The only cons are 1) it does not do A2A as well as the Hornet does A2G; but it is better at A2G; 2) it does not do antiship strikes as well as the Hornet

 

But there you have it. The Harrier is a better bomber than the A-10C and the FA-18C, but it is a worse fighter than the FA-18C.

[Mr.Scar]

AV-8BNA

 

Let's see, I have all three and I can say the AV-8B NA is the best module.

 

- In terms of completeness, it sits between the polished A-10C and the developing FA-18C.

- In terms of attack, it is more capable than both the A-10C and the FA-18C.

- This is the best aircraft for night ops; the night vision hud and the Litening pod turn the night into your domain

- The weapons are fantastic, and you will be able to strike targets with great accuracy

- Harrier is much easier to learn than the A-10C and the FA-18C; the FA-18C needs constant monitoring but the Harrier lets you get right to business

- It is more deployable than both, so you can get around fast to places the other fixed wing aircraft will have to wait and plan for.

 

Cons: The only cons are 1) it does not do A2A as well as the Hornet does A2G; but it is better at A2G; 2) it does not do antiship strikes as well as the Hornet

 

But there you have it. The Harrier is a better bomber than the A-10C and the FA-18C, but it is a worse fighter than the FA-18C.

 

I agree with you in 100% but, what made me choose A-10C is the content available for it + the incoming A10C II with the Scorpion HMCS and APKWS, which will make it basically a weapons platform with Harriers night capability.

 

I love the Harrier too, but unfortunately it lacks the most important things for me

 

- Basically no campaigns and missions (and I do not have the time to tinker around the mission builder aside from training purposes, or to play with not entierly working player created missions)

- I would probably focus on the Harrier if I would be a multiplayer person, but I am not. At least not now. Due to real life reasons.

 

Meanwhile the A-10C offered me all that i need

 

1. Great step by step tutorial

2. Extensive knowledge sources (Chucks guide, A-10C real life pilot manual from 2012, massive tutorials on yt etc.

3. It is basically a complete module, if not counting the incoming A-10C II.

4. Great campaigns, I am in the middle of the Georgian Hammer now.

5. A-10C is a great teaching platform when it goes to RWR, invluable source of experience for someone like me who had no idea what S6 on RWR was.

7. It is ugly, it is tough, it is slow and brings the pain train with it while making BRRRT. In other words, just what a old guy like me needs.

 

 

So all in all, i do not say no to the Harrier/Viper/Hornet but as far as my needs go, the A-10C fulfills all of them.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Mr.Scar

[Fri13]

However, when the new F-15E from RAZBAM comes out - I suspect the "If I could only fly one jet" answer will change for a lot of folks.

 

F-15E (Enhanced Tactical Fighter program. The program was later renamed the Dual-Role Fighter (DRF) competition) was to replace the F-111, not the A-10, F-16 or F/A-18.

 

Those who love to fly AV-8B, A-10 or F/A-18C will not be so interested about F-15E as it is not Carrier capable, it is not CAS capable. It is simply for long-range strike and ground-attack with capability to perform fighter task same time.

 

But there are people who love to use F-16 and F/A-18 just for the fighter tasks so to them the F-15E becomes really good choice as they anyways already fly F-15C.

 

It is sad that F/A-18E/F is not on the table as it would be the Navy replacement for F-14 and challenge F-15E.

[Fri13]

I agree with you in 100% but, what made me choose A-10C is the content available for it + the incoming A10C II with the Scorpion HMCS and APKWS, which will make it basically a weapons platform with Harriers night capability.

 

Those two features will make A-10C II, F-16C and F/A-18C really shine in the close combat (there are no technical reasons why all would not carry APKWS as it is 100% backward compatible to any platform that can just launch 2.75" rockets) as you will have capability designate targets on the round just by looking at it.

 

That is something we can all so super easily (unrealistic) do by spotting ground units and then slew all sensors on it and just unrealistically shoot them from long distance.

 

Just look at the target and get IR maverick or TPOD pointed there, activate laser and shoot few laser guided rockets to destroy easy target.

 

This is one of those reasons why I love to fly Su-25A, as it is so fun to fly either super slow or very fast depending the situation, you just point the aircraft at the enemy and you easily get laser designation on it and ready to fire weapons at it.

[SmirkingGerbil]

Haha, i almost imagined Palpatine when i read goooood goooood.

 

And Yes, that is my choice. Cant wait for that Scorpion HMCS and APKWS... Will make the Hog have everything i want :)

 

I will vid and post to my YouTube Channel next time, but this weekend I setup a fairly straight forward mission, around the city of Quneitra Golan Heights/Syria map, 1973 ish (of course no hogs then, the city is "there" on the map, but the cross roads are empty, so I put some buildings down)

 

No SAM threats yet, but plenty of T-55's, and ZSU-23-4 Shilka's and BDRs.

 

Set myself up as a bomb truck (another unlikely scenario, but hey why not!!): 4 Mav AH-65D's, 6 GBU-12's, one rocket pod, one BDU-50 and of course Brrrrrtttt. Had to run 80% fuel, as I was heavy heavy!

 

Came in at 12K ASL, high enough to wag my tongue at the ZSU's, even with them set to Red Alarm state, not much they can do. Proceeded to nuke all the ZSU's with my GBU's (CCRP), knocked out T-55's with the Mav's (only one went astray) then asked my wing man to beat up on what was left while I hammered with my rockets and Brrrrtttttttttttttttttttttttt.

 

A full half hour of nothing but CTRL-F6 (ride the rocket baby! Dr. Strangelove!) and watching vehicles try to escape the Hawg doooom. :lol::lol::lol:

Edited August 31, 2020 by SmirkingGerbil
added detail

[Mr.Scar]

I will vid and post to my YouTube Channel next time, but this weekend I setup a fairly straight forward mission, around the city of Quneitra Golan Heights/Syria map, 1973 ish (of course no hogs then, the city is "there" on the map, but the cross roads are empty, so I put some buildings down)

 

No SAM threats yet, but plenty of T-55's, and ZSU-23-4 Shilka's and BDRs.

 

Set myself up as a bomb truck (another unlikely scenario, but hey why not!!): 4 Mav AH-65D's, 6 GBU-12's, one rocket pod, one BDU-50 and of course Brrrrrtttt. Had to run 80% fuel, as I was heavy heavy!

 

Came in at 12K ASL, high enough to wag my tongue at the ZSU's, even with them set to Red Alarm state, not much they can do. Proceeded to nuke all the ZSU's with my GBU's (CCRP), knocked out T-55's with the Mav's (only one went astray) then asked my wing man to beat up on what was left while I hammered with my rockets and Brrrrtttttttttttttttttttttttt.

 

A full half hour of nothing but CTRL-F6 (ride the rocket baby! Dr. Strangelove!) and watching vehicles try to escape the Hawg doooom. :lol::lol::lol:

 

Sounds very nice. Be sure to share :)

 

As for me, well in Top Gun Viper told Maverick this: "A good pilot is always compelled to evaluate what has happened"

 

I do not think I am a good pilot yet, but I do like to think I learn from mistakes. And so far the A-10C really taught me a lot of stuff I was not paying attention to.

 

Getting the grips on stores management and weapon employment was the easy part. The way the Hog is built and thanks to that it is slow, it taught me several new skills. I realized, when I was driving the Hornet before the Hog, I was learning it the wrong way. I have focused on doing specific maneouvers without being comfortable with the aircrafts handling and systems, 0 multi tasking ability and it struck me as hell that i even had problems having the Hornets(!) velocity vector level, when doing turns... And now i have no problems with that, with a plane that has no FBW. So let me just make bullets on how it worked for me:

 

- I did the in-game tutorials and read Chucks Guide

- After that i started the Georgian Campaign, which is quite easy but makes a perfect training range that forces me to use what i have already learned and gives you essential SA, Stick time skills in a combat envirioment while also performing multi-tasking

- Trouble in doing something? Pause in the middle of the mission, go to chucks guide or YT tutorials. Recreate in the mission, be happy you learned something new.

- After around 10-15 hours of stick time in a campaign enviroment I stopped thinking how to fly the Hog. I started to do it naturally. Turns, dives, line ups for the attack and managing weapons and CMS. All smoother with each sortie

- Paying attention to RWR. Listening and looking what pops up to avoid danger

- I forgot for now how to learn things like formation flying, landings etc. how real pilots do it. For me, it is more important to have a better feel of the aircraft and its systems. The specialized parts come later.

- Airplanes without FBW REALLY teach you how to fly. Switching then to an FBW one is a sweet feeling.

- I shortly jumped into the Hornet and the Viper, and had suddenly started flying them in a very different more comfortable way. Coincidence? I doubt it. It was thanks to the Hog...

 

 

 

So to sum up, if anyone who is reading this has or had the same problems as I had, and you are not sure which aircraft to pick. I can recommend you this. No matter if your "end-game" is the Hornet, Viper, Harrier or anything else... if you struggle the same way I did, learn the A-10C first because The Hog will teach you in a slow but steady manner and you will start developing skills and systems knowledge easly transferred to other western aircraft. It worked for me very nicely and opened my eyes to a whole new things. I hope it will help you too.

 

And all this above is just the beggining in getting better and better, because i really feel the difference in what i can do now.

 

In the meantime, I am going back to BRRRT and wish you all: Fly Safe :)

Edited September 2, 2020 by Mr.Scar

[SmirkingGerbil]

Just wait till you start jacking around with things like Height of Function (HOF), Ripple (single, pairs) and qty per ripple, with offset in feet.

 

The first time you watch 6 MK82's High Drag drift down in a lovely line of potential violence waiting to be unleashed in sequential Godzilla stomps . . . this, this is what it is all about!

[Eldur]

You really should give the Viggen some time. Haven't read the thread, but I guess it has been covered already. It's a blast to fly and do things, especially with the BK M90s.

 

And you missed the biggest pro of the Harrier:

- Its engine is called Pegasus

[Mr.Scar]

You really should give the Viggen some time. Haven't read the thread, but I guess it has been covered already. It's a blast to fly and do things, especially with the BK M90s.

 

And you missed the biggest pro of the Harrier:

- Its engine is called Pegasus

 

 

I got the Viggen and it is a blast to fly, however it does not meet my requirements of a modern aircraft. As for the Harrier... well i got it too, but there is too much fuss around it. I mean, I fly it, i love it, but currently my Focus is the Hog.

[A2597]

I've focused primarily on the hornet, and love it.

But the A-10 is tempting...

[Mr.Scar]

I've focused primarily on the hornet, and love it.

But the A-10 is tempting...

 

I agree. I kind of also love the Hornet, but I am shit at dogfighting and BVR. I prefer to leave it to the guys that are good at it and make my job of turning enemy ground forces into scrap easier, by protecting the high sky. CAS brings me the most satisfaction.

 

So Hog and Harrier are my kind of planes. I know the Hornet can also do that, but the Hog and the Harrier have this... thing. Cant really say what it is, but I simply get drawn to it.

 

Truth is, if DCS had already an AH-64D i would fly it all day long.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Mr.Scar

[Ladan]

I have just started out on the A-10 last night, and found it to be really nice, and as stable as the F/A-18. It's a couple of days where I have been working on landing with the AV-8B Harrier, and so far, I have been really pleased with my progress.

So, if you really want to master an aircraft, I'd do the Harrier. The F/A-18 is pretty easy really.

On 9/3/2020 at 9:37 AM, Eldur said:

You really should give the Viggen some time. Haven't read the thread, but I guess it has been covered already. It's a blast to fly and do things, especially with the BK M90s.

 

And you missed the biggest pro of the Harrier:

- Its engine is called Pegasus

Quote

 - Its engine is called Pegasus

Bro, seriously? I didn't know that. Why is it called Pegasus?

[zildac]

I have just started out on the A-10 last night, and found it to be really nice, and as stable as the F/A-18. It's a couple of days where I have been working on landing with the AV-8B Harrier, and so far, I have been really pleased with my progress.
So, if you really want to master an aircraft, I'd do the Harrier. The F/A-18 is pretty easy really.
Bro, seriously? I didn't know that. Why is it called Pegasus?

It's a Rolls Royce Pegasus. They were going to go with "Brian" but it didn't have the same ring.

[Ladan]

30 minutes ago, zildac said:

1 hour ago, Ladan said:

I have just started out on the A-10 last night, and found it to be really nice, and as stable as the F/A-18. It's a couple of days where I have been working on landing with the AV-8B Harrier, and so far, I have been really pleased with my progress.
So, if you really want to master an aircraft, I'd do the Harrier. The F/A-18 is pretty easy really.
Bro, seriously? I didn't know that. Why is it called Pegasus?

It's a Rolls Royce Pegasus. They were going to go with "Brian" but it didn't have the same ring.

Oh ok cool.

[schurem]

Of the three, if I had to pick one, I'd pick Harrier. Why? Here's the pros:

* It has a great view. Big old bubble, with pretty low edges.

* It is agile and zippy, with a great thrust-to-weight ratio and a very nice roll rate when light.

* It has this awesome noise when you pull back the throttle.

* It can do some very interesting and hard to learn things such as vertical landings.

So what sucks about the Harrier?

* The targeting pod is a monster, being tacked on and shoehorned in by creative crayon eaters IRL and every maddening UI weirdness is faithfully recreated by Razbam (is this really a con then?  )

* It's neither as supersonic fighter jet-y as the Hornet, nor is it as brrrrrrrrt, you die-y as the Warthog. It's a bit of both.

 

So there you have it. Harrier for the win, all day long baby.