Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?

[veenee]

It is fun to fly no doubt.

But if it's now magically out of EA, I'd rather get my money back, see how the 'product sustainment' continues, and perhaps buy it again in the future.

Edited September 10, 2020 by veenee

[Fri13]

I wonder, why ED don't put the Early Access label back on the Harrier until the missing items are delivered or implemented? Is there no QA for 3rd party modules?

 

Because ED doesn't make the decision when the module leaves EA, how they can make decision when it doesn't leave?

[Swift.]

Because ED doesn't make the decision when the module leaves EA, how they can make decision when it doesn't leave?

 

According to Razbam_Hank, it is only ED can take a module out of EA, apparently razbam don't make those decisions.

 

Edit, I was mistaken, BN addresses the error on the next page

Edited September 10, 2020 by Swiftwin9s

[BIGNEWY]

According to Razbam_Hank, it is only ED can take a module out of EA, apparently razbam don't make those decisions.

 

From Nineline

 

That person spoke out of line, and is wrong. I already addressed this with Ron. Thanks. The most we control is removing the EA text from our website, but that is done with RAZBAMs request.

Edited September 10, 2020 by BIGNEWY

[Fri13]

BigNewy, you always say "EA isn't for everyone". Now it seems that also "finished" products aren't for anyone.

 

 

That is the core of a problem here.

An uncompleted product is being pushed from development to a stable market.

 

All features that are listed doesn't work or exist. So it shouldn't be allowed to go anywhere than rapid development phase.

 

This is not fans of Harrier screaming "where are my features" as much as it is "Hey ED, the Razbam is trying to slip uncompleted product that they have not fixed for years, to your customers that has been waiting a feature complete product...."

 

After early access I can understand bugs like "The flood light knob rotates at wrong direction". But not at all "You can not bomb a target because your targeting system thinks it takes over 500 seconds to fly to target at 2 nmi and over it!".

 

This is not anymore so much about Razbam trying to produce Harrier, but how well is the Early Access philosophy enforced, that feature completed product is the purpose for a release.

As how I see it, I waited Razbam release bunch of large updates this year to fix major flaws, add missing features and polish it.

But instead Razbam could very well have pushed Harrier out of Early Access already over a year ago....

 

Now my hopes from seeing Harrier completed is shifted from Razbam to ED.... That they get Razbam to place Harrier back to Early Access, focus it flaws to be fixed with help from ED and complete it, then try again with release. But I start already seeing the possibilities ED taking the control of the Harrier, and likely as well from MiG-23MLA and F-15E.

No wonder that Razbam Community Manager left that position few weeks ago, as he likely knew what is to come and didn't want to be in this storm, trying to explain things.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Fri13

[Swift.]

Indeed Fri,

 

Normally you are told to excuse rough edges and patchy spots because 'It's EA' and you start to learn that EA means unfinished and out of EA will consequently mean finished.

 

Now I can see there being two definitions of finished:

1) It has quite literally everything in the product page (I know, it doesn't but that seems to be the spirit of the argument), regardless of how polished it feels

2) It is an accurate representation of the most realistic version of this aircraft that can be realised in DCS. All effort has been applied to removing bugs that do not represent the real product and a user will be able to use the product without feeling like it is a development build.

 

It seems to me that most people expect 2, and I believe that 2 is what ED strive towards. However I get the feeling that Harrier has been 'finished' under the idea of 1.

[mue]

Originally Posted by NineLine

That person spoke out of line, and is wrong. I already addressed this with Ron. Thanks. The most we control is removing the EA text from our website, but that is done with RAZBAMs request.

 

 

Does this mean, if a 3rd party developer request to change the status from EA to "finished product" then ED just do it without any QA checks?

[Cornelius]

Now my hopes from seeing Harrier completed is shifted from Razbam to ED.... That they get Razbam to place Harrier back to Early Access, focus it flaws to be fixed with help from ED and complete it, then try again with release. But I start already seeing the possibilities ED taking the control of the Harrier, and likely as well from MiG-23MLA and F-15E.

 

 

I buried my hope right away, because to talk to Razbam and " assist them with bugs " is now the consequence of everything. The time to talk to Razbam is long over and they have shown more than once that they are not willing and ED has already slept all this in the past or was also not willing. Because actually, they really should have done something substantial now, like bring it back to EA, etc. I don't know either what to be patient for. A big surprise? the weekend? Things calming down?

 

Every module that is to leave EA should be subject to a quality check by ED before. I've really a hard time believing that this is not already the case. After all, there is a (?quality-) check when a module enters it and that this RazbamGuy insists that it is not in their hands does not make it more convincing.

[ghost84]

Day 4, and still no official statement from Razbam. Unbelievable.

[kengou]

Razbam's unprofessionalism and serious lack of communication in this matter and all other matters for literally years has lost them my future business. I have hope the Harrier will get to a good state, with ED's help. I don't think I regret my purchase of it at this point. I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it over the years, more than worth the money I spent. But I do not trust this team anymore to deliver on their promises. I've given them second and third chances but they don't deserve any more.

[peeter]

Well Nineline, How the EA thing is working ?

 

And what makes ED move an aircraft out of EA ?

 

Is this just the 3rd party dev asking or is there an "investigation" on what feature is missing on the store description ?

[Tippis]

I haven't checked in a while since it seemed to be one of those forever-issues, but is the Harrier fully carrier-compatible yet or does it still get stuck in “flight has been delayed” if it's assigned to anything other than a runway start or is the only plane on the entire server? Because it would be nice if this carrier aircraft could use carriers before it came out of EA…

[ThorBrasil]

I haven't bought Razbam products in a while. The last product I bought was Harrier. After that I didn't buy anything else. The problem with Razbam is that they want to launch the world without finishing existing projects.

I currently have only Harrier and Mirage. Future Razbam products are banned from my shopping cart. I hope they finish the existing modules. So that I can support you in the future.

[nessuno0505]

I just want to notice that what is happening here is more or less the same that happened with polychop and the Gazelle. Did polychop bring the Gazelle back to early access? Did polychop quickly address all the bugs, alone or with ED's help? None of this. They just said they have to work on the Kiowa now, It will be a better module and they will address the Gazelle after the Kiowa, since development of the latter may help them to improve the first. Just promises. Get ready for another show when the Kiowa will be out. I'm sorry but I fear the same will happen here. There's only one thing true: ED needs more quality check on 3rd party modules.

[baltic_dragon]

We talked to them, and apparently there was a miss-communication, that the manual was supposed to be done, but was held up by COVID (this is based on feedback from Baltic Dragon). They are going to get that addressed as soon as they can.

 

Hey guys, I took the time to read the whole thread. Wow.

 

As the manual and my (nick)name has been mentioned several times, please let me comment on that. The lack of full manual to date is on me: I agreed to write one and am doing so. However, when covid struck and I was stuck at home for several months, I was simply unable to work on it with three small kids, normal daily job and other DCS commitments. Nevertheless, if anyone is to be blamed for lack of full manual, it is me.

 

Having said that, I am working on it, going step by step and I assure you that I will report all the issues I may find along the way to RAZBAM (both missing features and things that don’t work as they should). I was promised these all will be looked at and taken care of.

 

To my mind the training missions may be treated as temporary substitute to the manual (especially it you look at the documentation provided there) - at least until I finish writing it. Mind you, Harrier is a very complex aircraft (much more than, say, M-2K) and requires a lot more attention when preparing the text.

 

Oh, and someone mentioned the campaign. I am finishing the free, 5 mission one as we speak. Couldn’t have done it before due to some bugs with the AI behaviour on Tarawa, which has recently been fixed by ED. So we’re back on track there too :)

[BIGNEWY]

Hey guys, I took the time to read the whole thread. Wow.

 

As the manual and my (nick)name has been mentioned several times, please let me comment on that. The lack of full manual to date is on me: I agreed to write one and am doing so. However, when covid struck and I was stuck at home for several months, I was simply unable to work on it with three small kids, normal daily job and other DCS commitments. Nevertheless, if anyone is to be blamed for lack of full manual, it is me.

 

Having said that, I am working on it, going step by step and I assure you that I will report all the issues I may find along the way to RAZBAM (both missing features and things that don’t work as they should). I was promised these all will be looked at and taken care of.

 

To my mind the training missions may be treated as temporary substitute to the manual (especially it you look at the documentation provided there) - at least until I finish writing it. Mind you, Harrier is a very complex aircraft (much more than, say, M-2K) and requires a lot more attention when preparing the text.

 

Oh, and someone mentioned the campaign. I am finishing the free, 5 mission one as we speak. Couldn’t have done it before due to some bugs with the AI behaviour on Tarawa, which has recently been fixed by ED. So we’re back on track there too :)

 

Thank you for taking the time to post Baltic Dragon, appreciate it.

[Mr.Scar]

Hey guys, I took the time to read the whole thread. Wow.

 

As the manual and my (nick)name has been mentioned several times, please let me comment on that. The lack of full manual to date is on me: I agreed to write one and am doing so. However, when covid struck and I was stuck at home for several months, I was simply unable to work on it with three small kids, normal daily job and other DCS commitments. Nevertheless, if anyone is to be blamed for lack of full manual, it is me.

 

Having said that, I am working on it, going step by step and I assure you that I will report all the issues I may find along the way to RAZBAM (both missing features and things that don’t work as they should). I was promised these all will be looked at and taken care of.

 

To my mind the training missions may be treated as temporary substitute to the manual (especially it you look at the documentation provided there) - at least until I finish writing it. Mind you, Harrier is a very complex aircraft (much more than, say, M-2K) and requires a lot more attention when preparing the text.

 

Oh, and someone mentioned the campaign. I am finishing the free, 5 mission one as we speak. Couldn’t have done it before due to some bugs with the AI behaviour on Tarawa, which has recently been fixed by ED. So we’re back on track there too :)

 

Many Thanks Baltic, much appreciated :)

[Snoopy]

Hey guys, I took the time to read the whole thread. Wow.

 

As the manual and my (nick)name has been mentioned several times, please let me comment on that. The lack of full manual to date is on me: I agreed to write one and am doing so. However, when covid struck and I was stuck at home for several months, I was simply unable to work on it with three small kids, normal daily job and other DCS commitments. Nevertheless, if anyone is to be blamed for lack of full manual, it is me.

 

Having said that, I am working on it, going step by step and I assure you that I will report all the issues I may find along the way to RAZBAM (both missing features and things that don’t work as they should). I was promised these all will be looked at and taken care of.

 

To my mind the training missions may be treated as temporary substitute to the manual (especially it you look at the documentation provided there) - at least until I finish writing it. Mind you, Harrier is a very complex aircraft (much more than, say, M-2K) and requires a lot more attention when preparing the text.

 

Oh, and someone mentioned the campaign. I am finishing the free, 5 mission one as we speak. Couldn’t have done it before due to some bugs with the AI behaviour on Tarawa, which has recently been fixed by ED. So we’re back on track there too :)

 

Professional and honest like always, thanks my friend!

[stormrider]

I haven't bought Razbam products in a while. The last product I bought was Harrier. After that I didn't buy anything else. The problem with Razbam is that they want to launch the world without finishing existing projects.

I currently have only Harrier and Mirage. Future Razbam products are banned from my shopping cart. I hope they finish the existing modules. So that I can support you in the future.

 

 

Is it only Razbam who does that?

[Cornelius]

Hey guys, I took the time to read the whole thread. Wow.

 

As the manual and my (nick)name has been mentioned several times, please let me comment on that. The lack of full manual to date is on me: I agreed to write one and am doing so. However, when covid struck and I was stuck at home for several months, I was simply unable to work on it with three small kids, normal daily job and other DCS commitments. Nevertheless, if anyone is to be blamed for lack of full manual, it is me.

 

Having said that, I am working on it, going step by step and I assure you that I will report all the issues I may find along the way to RAZBAM (both missing features and things that don’t work as they should). I was promised these all will be looked at and taken care of.

 

To my mind the training missions may be treated as temporary substitute to the manual (especially it you look at the documentation provided there) - at least until I finish writing it. Mind you, Harrier is a very complex aircraft (much more than, say, M-2K) and requires a lot more attention when preparing the text.

 

Oh, and someone mentioned the campaign. I am finishing the free, 5 mission one as we speak. Couldn’t have done it before due to some bugs with the AI behaviour on Tarawa, which has recently been fixed by ED. So we’re back on track there too :)

 

it is very honorable that you are defending your contractor and we can all be very grateful for your content, but this is not about why the manual is not there, but amongst other things, why the module could go out of early access without the manual.I also don't like the fact that your problem with covid is being used as an excuse. If someone falls out due to illness or other reasons you have to find another way to do it, or delay it or whatever...

 

Hope that covid thing didn't hit you too hard.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Cornelius

[baltic_dragon]

it is very honorable that you are defending your contractor and we can all be very grateful for your content, but this is not about why the manual is not there, but amongst other things, why the module could go into early access without the manual.I also don't like the fact that your problem with covid is being used as an excuse. If someone falls out due to illness or other reasons you have to find another way to do it, or delay it or whatever...

 

Hope that covid thing didn't hit you too hard.

 

Thanks, I wasn’t sick or anything, I was just stuck at home and unable to work on the manual. I am not going to comment on the EA thing, because I am not positioned to do so. I just thought that you guys deserved explanation why the manual is not ready yet and an apology that it isn’t. And I am not using covid as an excuse, just stating bare facts why I did not deliver the manual yet.

[SGT Coyle]

OK, unfortunately this was completely predictable.

 

Read this thread:

[thread=285562]Right MPCD SYS Rocker Switch Does Nothing[/thread]

 

 

How is anyone going to be able to untangle this steaming pile of spaghetti if no one has any idea as to what anything is supposed to do.

 

 

So I'm fit to be tied. ED, your plan to screen the bugs for presentation to Razbam on a silver platter is ludicrous. How in the world do you can present a Gripe to the manufacturer hasn't even provided you with the information to base your Gripe on.

 

 

 

So how am I supposed to answer tea_cipher? I don't have any info other past experience with real Harriers( witch is limited), but my gripe makes sense to me.

 

What is tea_cipher basing his assumption on? And if the Brightness knob controls the back lighting? Why doesn't it?

 

Read this thread:

[threadt=285568]Right MPCD ON/OFF/Brightness Knob Does Not Brighten or Dim the the MPCD Back lighting.[/thread]

 

 

You tell me what document do we use. This air frame is so old there was never a digital library in the fleet to reference. Any reference to it is a fantasy.

 

 

I didn't sign on to design this thing but that's what it looks like I'm being asked to do. If that's the case I voting for DCS to take over the project and Kick Razbam off DCS World.

 

 

I know I need to calm down, but you weren't told to "Be patient. We're Communicating, Give us a chance". I don't think you have any idea of the scope of this mess and without that how are you going to negotiate with Ron, to get it fixed?

 

 

 

If you want pm me about that ludicrously long list I posted please do.

 

 

But for Christs sake, stop making arrangements with architect of this disaster until you have the baseline documentation in hand.

Will that slow the progress? Yeah, but we've been waiting three years, I'd like think I'm going to end up with an ED Study Sim. Not some cobbled up piece of junk!

[BIGNEWY]

SGT Coyle, teacypher is asking for more information so he can report it, stop trying to make drama where there is none.

[Cornelius]

Thanks, I wasn’t sick or anything, I was just stuck at home and unable to work on the manual. I am not going to comment on the EA thing, because I am not positioned to do so. I just thought that you guys deserved explanation why the manual is not ready yet and an apology that it isn’t. And I am not using covid as an excuse, just stating bare facts why I did not deliver the manual yet.

 

I have never accused you of using covid as an excuse.

[jasonbirder]

As the manual and my (nick)name has been mentioned several times, please let me comment on that. The lack of full manual to date is on me: I agreed to write one and am doing so. However, when covid struck and I was stuck at home for several months, I was simply unable to work on it with three small kids, normal daily job and other DCS commitments. Nevertheless, if anyone is to be blamed for lack of full manual, it is me.

 

 

Can I just say, that its not on you!

 

With you writing the manual, we're all confident it will be superb...your work is always of fantastic quality!

 

Similarly delays CAN happen - especially in these unprecedented times...most of us have expreienced disruption to our work & project schedules...that's not unexpected.

Peoples only beef was that it was taken out of EA...even though the manual wasn't available (for good reasons) logic should have dictated...manual essential for a module to be considered "complete"...no manual...module still in EA status until manual published.